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As news of what could be the biggest real estate deal in history spread, residents of Stuyvesant Town and Peter Cooper Village - and the rest of New York City - wondered what this could mean for the real estate market. Though selling the 110 building complex and changing over ownership of all the units would probably take years, questions about what Mayor Bloomberg will do about the city's housing policy arose, as well as what this will mean for the middle class residents who live there as a large swath of housing is taken away. The Tenants Political Action Committee tells the NY Sun, "This sale is the perfect illustration of the hole in the bottom of the bucket of the Bloomberg housing plan. The plan deals only with production. They will never build as much as we're losing."
And,sure, rent stabilized tenants wouldn't be affected at first, and if the buildings are converted to condos, tenants could have the option of buying (and many may be eager to do, as the Daily News found out), but many agree the character of the neighborhood would change drastically.
Our readers pointed out some interesting issues about potentially buying one of the new apartments (if offered) and whether people have a right to live in Manahttan. And NY Post's Steve Cuozzo has a column saying the deal will never happen - and if it does, it might be for $1 billion less than the desired $5 billion (clarified from earlier - sorry for mixing that up!). Cuozzo writes:
To a guy who lived in Stuyvesant Town for three years in the late 1970s, it's a wonder the place has become the It Girl of residential offerings.At this point, nothing is out of the question.Back then, Stuy Town had all the glamour of the projects, with more greenery and slightly better service. It's improved today, but MetLife's "luxury" moniker is a joke.
...Yes, the windows have been modernized and air-conditioning has finally come to Stuy Town. There's better landscaping and new finishes.
But it's unclear how much tenants will pay for non-doorman buildings still reliant on security buzzers.
Stuy Town's two-bedroom apartments have only a single bathroom. The walls of my place were so paper-thin, I got to know everything about my neighbors' family feuds and sex lives.
Much of the complex lies far east of bus and subway stops and stores.
An executive of one company among the prospective bidders said that "in a normal market," those weaknesses could seriously lower the price - "but we're not in a normal market."
It will be fascinating to see just how abnormal things get.
Photograph of family and a pigeon in Stuyvesant Town by Mary Altaffer/AP
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I was never impressed with the place whenever I passed it and that photo above looks just as depressing. Dark brick monoliths, looking like any of the other projects.
This real estate bubble couldn't burst soon enough.
it's a fascinating question whether anyone has a "right" to live in manhattan, or a neighborhood for that matter. there are no legal protections for suhc rights (although rent control helps), but people value their neighborhoods so highly and will fight to protect them (see atlantic yards).
It's not going to burst in New York unless interest rates rise dramatically.
As a global city there will always be buyers. And a falling dollar only makes it easier for foreigners to step in and boost the market. The Times had an article last year about the reverse flow of migration back to Ireland. The Irish in America were falling behind economically. And many Irish were scooping up cheap properties here as investments and vacation homes.
Right now many the junior analysts at investment banks can't even afford to live anywhere in New York City right now...so many of them have moved to Jersey City, Hoboken, Newark etc. And these are people making 60k-100k per year.
Unfortunatly police, teachers etc., cannot move to NJ because of residency restrictions.
Of course, the whole situation may change if outsourcing hits the financial industry, and you have someone in India who will be a financial analyst for 10k a year, versus 100k here.
Values are pretty much twice as high as they have ever been in the last 115 years. If NY prices dropped back to the level they were in 2000, it'd be a crash, but the prices would still be relatively as high as they have ever been.
"It's not going to burst in New York unless interest rates rise dramatically."
Or...the City has difficulty paying its bills; or companies/employers flee; or the economy suffers from higher inflation and/or recession and/or sluggish growth; or lower-middle-to-middle class families, and singles, are entirely priced out; or CRIME RETURNS. Barring that, no.
When you do the math using $5B for the whole lot, it comes out to about $300+ per square feet. That is reasonable in any large city in the world. In fact, real estate in key cities of even developing countries such as China is closing in on those prices, never mind comparable metropolitan cities. Look at housing cost in London or Paris.
Jersey City Mafia needs to do his homework: the police do not have to live in New York City. The union got that requirement removed years ago. I don't know about teachers or firemen. The various District Attorneys have their own policies. Rob Johnson of the Bronx requires ADAs to live in the city which is ridiculous since they make less than a cop on the force for more than five years and the ADAs aren't allowed to unionize and they don't get overtime. Remember that the next time the mess up a case.
As for gashouse redux, recessions do little damage to Wall Street and law firm profits. The first people to go will be the junior analysts. And the higher level people invariably land at boutique firms. And considering many of them paid cash for their property they will be fine. As for inflation, well that would raise interest rates which I already covered. And while I don't condone pricing out the middle class, the middle class would have to pick up and move to another region of the country. If they move to New Jersey and work in Manhattan then it doesn't impact the market at all. I can't speak knowledgably about crime rates but my guess is that a full scale return to the drug turf Fort Apache days is not likely.
I wonder how many of you vocal armchair economic theorists are even going to bother to make a difference in they way our government works and vote in the upcoming primary. Wait, I know the answer: ZERO.
speak for yourself,
I'm broke and I vote. I don't care if my voter registration is public record and that's how collectors find me.
I still vote.
Umm, terrorists blowing up Grand Central Station might impact real estate values, no?
If you don't vote, you don't get to bitch or opine (or whine) loudly. Voting is a privilege and the ONLY way to effect any change---locally, at least. So, if you don't show up a week from Tuesday (Sept. 12th) and vote in the primary (and then again in November's election) keep your theories to yourself. There's a twisted little maxim: You only get the government that you deserve. If you don't vote, you deserve nothing!! As for me and the rest of us voters, we can only try to convince others that their precious time & support is worth giving up for the greater good.
This is great news, now all those smelly old people and cripples will leave the neighborhood! Thank our lucky stars!
I serisouly hope it is right that the market value won't be too much. i live in peter cooper and love it so much, i dont know how i'll live anywhere else in the city without trees and grass and water so close to home. i love being away from the subways and love not having bars below my windows. i hope they sell cheap
Forget about it amanda, imo they're going to sell for top dollar and convert the bulk of those units to million dollar (at the least) condos. Areas with green grass, trees, and water are very rare and prized possessions in nyc. Why wouldn't it sell for top dollar?
I've been priced out and outsourced.
Double whammy.
your companies will also outsource one day..
I've been priced out and outsourced..double whammy.
your companies will outsource one day..
I grew up in Stuyvesant Town (born in the mid-1950's) and moved to Florida in 1989. I've been back since, visiting my parents (both now deceased). Anyway, I'm saddened to see what's happening to the "vision" of Stuyvesant Town. I never liked it as a kid; I always wanted to live in the suburbs like my relatives, so I was one of those kids who used to walk and sit on the grass and get in trouble by the guards. Anyway, it was only when I grew up and had kids that I could appreciate the oasis that it was. Yes, architecturally it is oppressive, but it is an oasis, due to all the trees and grass. It was my parent's answer to the suburbs, while still living close to their jobs. Anyway, the vision of housing for the middle class is a noble one, and that ended there long ago. There is another fallout from this that I have not seen addressed. Here in Florida, our real estate values have been skyrocketing, both in my county and elsewhere. It's come to be so bad, that businesses are suffering, because workers cannot afford to live in the same county where they work (who wants to commute 2 hours each way?). It's all backfiring because MANY, MANY jobs remain unfilled and services are suffering because of it. It's only going to get worse.
Marvelous. Thanks, will spread this among my friends!
Marvelous. Thanks, will spread this among my friends!
Marvelous. Thanks, will spread this among my friends!