Gothamist: Some Subway Riders Get to Tap That

mh

Thu, 13 Jul 2006 11:27:52 -0500

mh -- your tin foil hat may be coming loose. [21] Posted by: wow | July 13, 2006 01:09 AM ______________ Yes, wow, it is the tin foil hat I barrowed from your big ass head. Making a purchase for goods and services with a credit card is something we do everyday. There are no guide lines and restrictions on credit card companies. They can check you past financial history without you approval and jack up you interest rate accordingly. So what would stop Citi Bank from trying to gain new customers via their *card information. They have access to my credit history. The way credit information has been falling off of trucks and mysteriously getting lost; I don't think it is wise to spread ones financial info. out too other banks so freely. Just as I am leery of purchasing from just anyone on-line, I am leery of letting the MTA/Citi Bank take money directly from my account. Besides, they don't take the money per ride. They have statistics that forecasts how much spending will take place on metro cards from each individual with a "*card" and plan accordingly. The money is their to use in advance especially if everyone accepts it. Why do you think the government is in debt. They don't wait for everyone to pay taxes. They spend then receive taxes. Or better yet, they print money, distribute it, then find ways to replenish their coffers with gold, silver, and old money. The purpose of the new system is the slyly steal more and more money from the people dependant on the only game in town, the MTA.

mg

Thu, 13 Jul 2006 03:06:14 -0500

A couple of points people don't understand: - The trial is free for the MTA. - The current MetroCard turnstiles--approaching 15 years old--*are* pre-wired for contactless systems, so they did think of that back in the 90s when it was being installed. That's why it was an easy mod to the current turnstiles to get these Citi readers working. - The current MetroCard readers are wearing out and reaching the end of their useful lives. - It's highly likely all MetroCards will be contactless in the future, whether or not the MTA goes with citibank.

b

Thu, 13 Jul 2006 02:15:24 -0500

does anyone know if these are rfid tags or if they use an induction system?

wow

Thu, 13 Jul 2006 01:09:48 -0500

mh -- your tin foil hat may be coming loose. Unless you're buying your metrocard with cash, the MTA already knows your "digits." And they're photographing you when you use a MetroCard machine and possibly at a token booth, so... I guess go back to walking.

kiki

Wed, 12 Jul 2006 19:11:41 -0500

Ironic that there is a car key on the special Citi Card to get you into the subways... What meatballs.

anonymass

Wed, 12 Jul 2006 17:38:08 -0500

They should use the current metrocard system, only make it contactless. Problem solved. The reason they want to introduce credit cards is to remove the rider even further from the reality of paying to ride. In the token days, raising the fare was something you felt. The act of buying tokens required you to plunk down cash. Raising the token price 25 cents (for example) meant you had to dig into your wallet for an extra bill or two every week. With the metrocard system, we're now paying $76 for a monthly unlimited card. So, let's say that they increase it $80. Do you notice? Not so much. Maybe once per month you grumble a bit about paying even more for the increasingly lackluster MTA service, the overpaid TWU workers who are busy napping in booths and generally throwing off shitty 'tudes, and so on. Now with credit cards, your subway expenses get rolled into everything else, masked with what are probably a sea of monthly expenditures. Are you really going to worry about an extra $5 to the MTA? $10? Will you even notice?

Mr. Nosuch

Wed, 12 Jul 2006 17:25:39 -0500

The advantages of the system are reduced maintenance and waste. The current metrocard system creates a lot of waste and requires a lot of upkeep. And I think there's a deep misunderstanding and paranoia on how the financial aspect would work. The fob is not a credit card. People can't get money out of it, any more than someone can get money out of an EasyPass tag. That being said, anything Citibank is involved in will be completely FUBAR. I wish the MTA luck with it. Perhaps they should have thought about contactless BEFORE the Metrocards. I guess that would have involved some planning...

Dan

Wed, 12 Jul 2006 17:10:47 -0500

The hard/expensive part of the Metrocard system is the wiring and computer infrastructure. That's already installed and a sunk cost. Converting to a tap system, or supporting a dual Metrocard/tap system, is comparatively cheap. And the contactless systems is *way* cheaper to maintain and easier to use than the magcard Metrocard. Besides, you can recharge the account from your computer instead of waiting in line at a booth or machine. The PayPass system as a whole has a $25/purchase and $150/day limit. That's not zero, it's true. But it's in Citibank's interest to be accommodating if your tag goes astray. Also, the pay-as-you-go setup doesn't get you the standard 10 pct MTA discount. The stored value setup does, although I don't know how (yet) that function co-exists with the PayPass system. If you go stored-value, do your non-subway charges hit your credit/debit account or your MTA account? Dunno. But the MTA does say that if the trial is successful, they plan on doing the monthly and weekly plans. Think about it: how much trouble would it save if TransitCheks could go directly to your tag account instead of issuing pieces of cardboard?

mh

Wed, 12 Jul 2006 15:33:16 -0500

jw - I agree with you. There is a system in place that works fine. Do you think that the trial is free. Where is the MTA and Citi Bank getting the money to pay for the test. It is coming out of the hike which they said was not coming in 2007. Who are they kidding? YOU PEOPLE NEED TO WAKE UP AND STOP BEING SEDUSED BY THE LATEST GAGIT. The MTA and Citi Bank have found a way to spend the money they can not manage now alot earlier. They want several millions of people to committ their bank accounts instead of a weekly or monthly trip to the machines. With the "NEW" system, they can claim the money quicker. They can move money quicker with the "NEW" cards. Can you imagine several million people giving them quicker access to digits, money. You don't know what they are doing with the money. I say, DON'T DO IT!!!!!! More importantly, they have access to your account information.

Kojak

Wed, 12 Jul 2006 15:33:15 -0500

"These accounts needs to be isolated...like the ones in Hong Kong." Agreed. But I'm sure they like it this way. Whats better for the CC companies then to make it easier for people to rack up debt.

Rocknrope

Wed, 12 Jul 2006 15:22:55 -0500

Obviously, you all haven't encountered the schmucks I have who can't figure out the proper speed to swipe their metrocard, causing a line 15 ft. deep to form.

mh

Wed, 12 Jul 2006 15:18:46 -0500

jw - I agree with you. We already have the METRO CARD. Why are they trying to change the system. It is going to cost more money. It is costing money for the Trial now. Surely you don't think that the trial is free for the MTA. It opens everyone up for fraud, waste, and abuse and hiking of fairs. Just because the rest of the world does it, does not mean we have to do it. Our system is not broke. Don't change anything, is my motto. THEY WANT YOUR BANKING INFORMATION AND YOUR MONEY.....WAKE UP. YOUR ARE BEING SET UP AND THEY ARE BEING NOSEY. I wish people would think about what is happening. They want to control a specific amount of money, your money. They, the MTA, or Citi Bank can use your money along with several millions of other peoples as soon as they please. Money is all about digit, little dots to bankers. They will have New Yorker agreeing to dump millions of digits into the MTA coffiers. You have committed your money. YOU WANT THEM TO TAKE YOU MONEY OUT OF YOUR ACCOUNT LIKE THAT. WHAT IS YOUR STATEMENT GOING TO LOOK LIKE? Why can't they wait for you to purchase your card monthly or weekly? They don't want to wait. This all started in the Guliani administration and Bloomberg is keeping the ball rolling. You don't know what they are doing with your money when it is in their hands. Ask some questions for God sake.

corie

Wed, 12 Jul 2006 15:18:46 -0500

The fact that two of my monthlies have crapped out after 2 weeks (2 months in a row) makes me all the more wary of using my credit card swipe to pay for a subway ride. The last thing I want to have to do is sit on the phone with Citibank's automated system trying to reverse charges made accidentally via the turnstile. I would rather worry about my metrocard malfunctioning.

edEx

Wed, 12 Jul 2006 15:01:04 -0500

from an article i read in the times a few months back i was under the impression that the MTA implemented the new system as a test, but citibank was flipping the bill for usage and installments etc.

Patrick

Wed, 12 Jul 2006 14:57:47 -0500

The problem with this trial is that these cards are linked to your credit card and debit cards. If someone was able to hack your card or whatever...you would lose the money in your bank account or suffer some kind of credit rating impact. These accounts needs to be isolated...like the ones in Hong Kong.

b

Wed, 12 Jul 2006 14:50:11 -0500

this is so convenient instead of having to buy a metrocard from the machine, i can just swipe (or tap) my credit card on the sensor on the turnstile

b

Wed, 12 Jul 2006 14:26:53 -0500

"I wonder if this whole thing is a solution in search of a problem." it's letting subway riders worry and carry one less thing these new method of payment will soon (in theory) be universal, you can already use the citibank keyfob at most CVS and Duane Reade stores. I guess it would be like using your credit card in place of the metrocard on the turnstile

cdjames

Wed, 12 Jul 2006 14:16:54 -0500

A sysytem similar to the London Underground's Oyster Card would be ideal. Non-contact cards can be left in wallets and passed by sensors to gain access to subways as well as buses. Also, Oyster cards can be linked to credit card accounts, and for 'unlimited' riders total costs are optimized on a frequency of use basis.

bw

Wed, 12 Jul 2006 14:11:53 -0500

Ridiculous...isn't the MTA hurting for money? When the Metrocard is accepted, understood, and most importantly, 100% installed throughout the system, why is the MTA experimenting with replacing it? It doesn't seem like any net improvement in convenience. Aren't there better projects to spend our money on? 7 line extension, security improvements, Fulton St renovation, whatever...

Don

Wed, 12 Jul 2006 14:06:27 -0500

I'm not a Luddite, but given that it takes me about one second to swipe my MetroCard, I wonder if this whole thing is a solution in search of a problem. What's the killer app? It sounds to me like it's more of a big promo for Citibank and MasterCard, certainly at least until it embraces TransitChex and unlimited rides.

JW

Wed, 12 Jul 2006 14:03:22 -0500

JW

Wed, 12 Jul 2006 14:03:22 -0500

Joe

Wed, 12 Jul 2006 13:55:33 -0500

Agreed that excluding transit check users and unlimited rides in the trial makes this a non-starter for a lot of people. Will either be included after the trial period? On the plus side, while waiting for a train recently I watched a guy as he cleaned the card reader. He took at least ten minutes. He was cleaning before I got there and after I left. In theory, switching to a proximity reader will greatly reduce that maintenance cost.

A_B

Wed, 12 Jul 2006 13:38:23 -0500

Their site says: "The following options are excluded from the trial: * All transit pretax benefit programs – customers enrolled in transit pretax benefit programs cannot use these benefits as part of the trial." The failure to incorporate transit check into the system means it will be a non-starter for a lot of people. I received my key-fob in the mail and the notice about the subway program a short time later. I liked the idea a lot until I found out about the transit check issue. I won't use the new system because of this issue.