Gothamist: Man Slices Through Postal Worker at Subway Station

Ursamajor

Wed, 12 Jul 2006 21:55:04 -0500

Now that you are all through with english lessons, bigotry displays, and how to identify a TWU worker, day or night, at 60 paces and contemplate their demise, perhaps we can talk about WHY NO ONE HELPED Michael Steinburg. In 1964 a young lady named Kitty Genovese was murdered in Kew Gardens while 38 bystanders stood by and watched it happen. This shocked New York to its core and raised many questions about how all these people could have just stood by and watched this happen. In 1970, John Darley and Bibb Latane, professors of Psychology, published a study entitled "The Unresponsive Bystander: Why Doesn't He Help?" and they identifed the following traits of bystanders to events such as this attack: They attributed the Bystander Effect to a pair of mindsets they called: Pluralistic Ignorance (i.e., Each bystander thinks, "If no one else is helping, does this person really need help?"), and Diffusion of Responsibility (i.e., Each bystander thinks, "Only one person needs to call the police and certainly someone else will.") There's a great write up on this at http://www.oldkewgardens.com/kitty_genovese-012.html#fnJ-4 However in this case, none of that applies. The construction workers were apparently running away AFRAID FOR THEIR LIVES, the MTA workers are doing as they are instructed to according to their work rules. Michael, unfortunately, didn't realize what the danger was until it was too late. While hindsight is great, human beings normally either freeze or flee when faced with great danger. This was also demonstrated in the Tenerife air disaster where, according to the survivors, people who could have escaped sat frozen in their chairs and died sitting there. Jesus' story of the rare example of the Good Samaritan takes on a new value in the light of these types of incidents. It takes enormous presence of mind to overcome our survival instinct and actually intervene in a emergency situation. That's why they give out medals for bravery - it's not a natural instinct; it's heroic. Uursa

sue no sue

Sat, 08 Jul 2006 11:45:48 -0500

sure you can sue. Just like the FDNY guy that's suing the TWU for his bicycle accident. It was just learned the judge threw out the suit saying there was no basis for it. just on today on NY1 bobby cuza's transit talk.

S.D.

Sat, 08 Jul 2006 11:25:06 -0500

Seamus! Such Horrible grammar! A College Grad> I'm Shocked, Shocked I say!

Seamus

Sat, 08 Jul 2006 10:56:25 -0500

Hey Matt D go fuck your-self! HAHA!

Samantha T

Sat, 08 Jul 2006 08:36:52 -0500

"Could the workers have been sued for trying to help? I know that you can get sued for trying to help someone who's been in an auto accident." You can get sued for anything, but that doesn't mean somebody's going to get beyond serving a complaint. NY, like most states, has a Good Samaritan law that essentially immunizes rescuers - it applies beyond physicians, EMTs, etc. That you shouldn't help/move/whatever somebody who has been hurt because of potential liability is a bit of a myth - you'd have to be grossly negligent or reckless in doing so to face any liability. I'm sure somebody will rustle up some case where a rescuer got sued successfully, but that's the exception to the rule.

Larry

Sat, 08 Jul 2006 00:43:52 -0500

Transitworkers and postal workers deserve each other

Ex-New Yorker

Fri, 07 Jul 2006 18:50:55 -0500

If the powersaw workers were private contractors, then Michael Steinberg should sue them directly for carelessness in leaving their powersaws out in the open giving crazy people access. You don't see cops leaving their guns lying around, do you?

Ex-New Yorker

Fri, 07 Jul 2006 18:42:41 -0500

The lack of action by the transit workers doesn't surprise me. This is no different from the time when Utah tourist Brian Watkins was stabbed to death in 1990 when he and his family were in town to see the U.S. Open. During the transit strike, I was never on the side of the transit workers or the union representing them. I feel that transit workers are whiny babies who treat the public with contempt and are overpaid and get a generous benefits package. I thought it was really careless of the transit workers who left those powersaws out for any maniac to get his hands on. The transit authority has refused to take any responsibility for their workers' irresponsible behavior. I say the transit union should be destroyed. Michael Steinberg should sue the MTA.

Ojibot

Fri, 07 Jul 2006 17:06:19 -0500

This may sound like a silly question. But I'm genuinely curious -- Could the workers have been sued for trying to help? I know that you can get sued for trying to help someone who's been in an auto accident. That being said, my first instinct is to help (and I have in the past) - even if it is a stupid thing to do.

grafittix

Fri, 07 Jul 2006 16:20:54 -0500

Regardless of who they work for or are affiliated with, everybody present and mentioned in this story is gonna get sued.

bklynd

Fri, 07 Jul 2006 16:11:39 -0500

In (half-hearted) defense of the contractors, I would expect Steinberg's perceptions to be quite exaggerated and distorted, due to the fact that somebody was cutting into his chest at the time. The whole ordeal must have lasted less than a minute. Who knows how the guys really reacted.

Ari

Fri, 07 Jul 2006 14:31:40 -0500

so when I commented that someone was an idiot once you banned me but you're all cool with "spit on muslims" nice Gothamist. Interesting standards you guys have.

Brightliner

Fri, 07 Jul 2006 14:02:27 -0500

pugsley, In point of fact, I did read the articles. The workers were repeatedly and consistently referred to as "contractors." Anybody with half a brain knows that while TWU workers have labor contracts, they are not contractors. See "empire subway worker's" reply above.

Jangler

Fri, 07 Jul 2006 13:40:41 -0500

"...another man was shot at the West 18th Street station, possibly by his girlfriend's husbands." Jeez, how many husbands did she have?!

GeorgeC

Fri, 07 Jul 2006 13:33:03 -0500

"I saw a lot of ... [construction workers] running away..." "The ... people [construction workers] heard me." Why are these statements editoralized out? Why did the author of the article not quote what he actually said?

Jane Minty

Fri, 07 Jul 2006 13:24:00 -0500

Regardless of who they are working for, the construction workers (electricians?) must certainly feel like heroes today.

empire subway worker

Fri, 07 Jul 2006 13:13:38 -0500

why don't you read the article? The construction workers you see at night are usually sub-contractors of the MTA. These are the guys with the heavy equipment and tool carts and have "contractor" on their vests. They put in a bid and won the job. Track workers are different, these sub-contractors were installing a fixture. track workers inspect tracks and signals. They're the one's with the lanterns and hand signals. OK, tough guy?

Aristocrat

Fri, 07 Jul 2006 13:11:04 -0500

What, no complaints about the image of the saw? Amazing.....

pugsley

Fri, 07 Jul 2006 12:54:16 -0500

Why don't you read the article Brightliner. It could well be that the workers were TWU members. Roger Tousssaint himself used to be a track worker. Seems like the Toussaint attitude to sit eating a sandwich while people are being drilled on the platform.

Margo

Fri, 07 Jul 2006 12:49:01 -0500

To the person who suggested "pushing a transit worker in front of a train.." Merely assaulting an MTA employee can land you in prison for 7 years--it's a FELONY. Can we please remove this crap from the forum?

Margo

Fri, 07 Jul 2006 12:45:47 -0500

Oh, and about the grammar-bashers---Jen works hard to put these stories out. This is not her sole job (read her bio) so stop bashing the messenger!

Margo

Fri, 07 Jul 2006 12:41:53 -0500

Yes, I agree with, er, Madman. When you allow posts that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic to remain, you diminish the power and clarity of the topic at hand. It's not censorship. It's called good editing! This isn't a forum for close-minded people to regurgitate whatever hang-ups they've had since childhood. Get some anger management therapy, folks.

Madman

Fri, 07 Jul 2006 12:36:04 -0500

Hey Gothamist, why don't you zap the really offensive, bigotted posts? The entire comment board goes haywire when someone starts bashing Muslims. The Politicker will zap your bad comments and even forbid postings from your IP Address. How about some editorial etiquette?

Brightliner

Fri, 07 Jul 2006 12:33:40 -0500

Again, people should stop jumping to conclusions before they post. Read the articles, people. The electricians weren't MTA workers or TWU members. The clerk in the token booth wasn't all blasé about the attack. She was hysterical but called for help as the attack was ongoing. What, do you think a woman should come out and confront an armed man who has shown a penchant for violence? I'm not defending the electricians, who should have done something. Then again, they do know what these saws can do. And just admit it: Most of you talk a good fight, but if it really did happen around you, you'd probably be too scared to fight or even experience "bystander apathy," aka "Kitty Genovese syndrome."

pugsley

Fri, 07 Jul 2006 12:16:30 -0500

Another proud day for Roger Toussaint.

Dirk

Fri, 07 Jul 2006 11:37:25 -0500

Damn. This is one f*cked up story in so many ways.

S.D.

Fri, 07 Jul 2006 11:31:51 -0500

Ojibot, Wish you were there to save the day...

Ojibot

Fri, 07 Jul 2006 11:14:00 -0500

Wow. I think the reason people are bashing the MTA construction workers is because we've all seen them SLEEPING ON THE JOB - literally! And then there's the transit strike a week before winter holidays. The MTA construction workers had power tools, too! Couldn't they have threatened the assailant with their own tools? Poor, helpless fellow New Yorker under attack...and they 'just kept on working'. Unbelievable.

Samantha T

Fri, 07 Jul 2006 11:11:19 -0500

My apologies - I thought the construction workers were affiliated with the MTA.

fishtaler

Fri, 07 Jul 2006 10:46:39 -0500

what's with bashing the workers? dude basically had a considerable knife he could wield like a chainsaw...unless i was really angry at the moment looking to kick someone's ass, i wouldn't have tried to physically stop the guy. what i don't understand is why the attackee didn't run away from the dude

Meredith

Fri, 07 Jul 2006 10:45:34 -0500

Be angry at the construction workers, but save your wrath on the MTA workers. They are bound to stay inside their booths in the event of an emergency where they could be harmed. Would you rather have one person with a punctured lung and broken ribs, or two or three or four of them? I think the policy makes sense, even if it seems inhumane on the surface.

matt d

Fri, 07 Jul 2006 10:41:41 -0500

Hey, uh, seamus, I think you could use a class or two on third grade grammar: "your," as you used it in "your going to find some grammar gold" does not fucking mean "you're," which is a contraction of "you are," which would be what I hope you meant in your presidential usage of language above. So yeah, douchebag, "way to go!" Spit on transit workers and construction lackeys, amen.

Jen

Fri, 07 Jul 2006 10:38:25 -0500

Hey, I was thinking of how many people lost their lunch over this story. (And my other excuse is that I was running out the door to take my cat to the vet!) But thanks for pointing out what contribute to my quota of mistakes. And about the transit workers not helping out - I can't imagine how much confusion there was on the scene.

S.D.

Fri, 07 Jul 2006 10:32:18 -0500

Just realized: "The ... people [construction workers] heard me. They just looked." So, Be efficient, don't forget to Bash construction workers too!

Seamus

Fri, 07 Jul 2006 10:31:46 -0500

When it comes to Jen reporting you know your going to find some grammar gold: "had a punctured lunch and broken rib" Way to go! Show the world your "college" education!

S.D.

Fri, 07 Jul 2006 10:23:55 -0500

"SPIT ON A TRANSIT WORKER DAY, OH AND DON'T FORGET, IT'S ALWAYS SPIT ON A FILTHY MUSLIM DAY."?? Nice to know that Wack Jobs are still online...

not surprised

Fri, 07 Jul 2006 10:06:42 -0500

is anyone really surprised? after all, these are the same transit workers that went on strike during the coldest part of the year. they didn't give a crap about anyone then and they sure don't give a crap now. i am surprised the token booth worker was even awake to see what happened.

krackilow

Fri, 07 Jul 2006 10:04:07 -0500

But I'll bet there was a station attendant standing there to assist hom wearing that snazzy red vest. Those f-in useless pieces of crap that are TWU 100 should be pushed in front of a train at every chance we have. SPIT ON A TRANSIT WORKER DAY, OH AND DON'T FORGET, IT'S ALWAYS SPIT ON A FILTHY MUSLIM DAY.

smitty

Fri, 07 Jul 2006 10:02:30 -0500

It was the lunch that put him in the hospital for sure.

Samantha T

Fri, 07 Jul 2006 09:47:34 -0500

It is appalling that the transit workers didn't help. It's not as if it was just one of them there by himself.

edEx

Fri, 07 Jul 2006 09:44:32 -0500

"No transit employee ever came over to me to see how I was doing. They just kept doing their job." What a surprise. The transit or shall I say the TWO union workers are just as lazy and incapable as they were 30 years ago. They should all be fired and replaced with more efficient workers.

wienerschnitzel

Fri, 07 Jul 2006 09:35:13 -0500

My god, a punctured lunch! There was mustard and root beer everywhere!