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Ooh, the Jews for Jesus put up a bunch of primary color subway posters and hell breaks loose. Well, according to the Post, it does. Here's what some commuters passing by the signs at 42nd Street subway stations said:
"I personally don't think religion has any place in advertising," said Roman Meisenberg, 20. "Why do we need this in a public space like the subways?"To the first person: True - better that the MTA stick to approving posters that herald blow jobs. To the second person: Again, very true - and Gothamist gets so upset when we're not offered a brochure. The Jewish Community Relations Council is upset by the advertising, but the MTA says the ads are protected under the First Amendment.Sarah Stevens from Brooklyn said, "Those people are so annoying, but I'd rather have these ads than have them stop me on the street."
What do you think? What would be funny is if Scientologists set up their stress tests in front of them.
Photograph from David Gallagher on Flickr
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Remember Scientology on the subway?
At least their Direct...
'Jews For Jesus' is just SO 1970's. If they want to bring Jesus back, they'd give him a pair of Chanel sunglasses and a Chloe Whiskey Paddington handbag and have him 'seen' on the town with Lindsay Lohan.
Come ON J4J, get with the program already!
at least they're tasteful (in terms of design)
Disgusting.
I disagree with Sarah Stevens from Brooklyn. When all they have are ads in the subway, you can only stew in your anger silently. But if they come up to you in person at least you can kick them in the shins.
"Why do we need this in a public space like the subways?"
Well, the funny thing is that if the subway were a private subway instead of a public one, they could choose to not accept any type of religious or political or whatever type of ad they so chose.
BUT! It is a public subway, so the MTA can't discriminate on an advertisement based upon religion being the subject matter. If the ads were offensive, then they would be able to deny them, but they're not.
Don't fret though, your constitutional rights are being whittled away in many other, different ways.
Aren't Jews for Jesus simply Christians, albeit with a touch of cultishness?
technically, all christians have a touch of cultishness
The whole PA tunnel to Times Sq is blocked off, so apparently they're targeting commuters gettin on Jersey buses.
The first thing that comes to my mind when I think of religious ads is the Church of Latter-Day Saints tv spots.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-715443629228383245&q=latter+day+saint
Laaaaaame!
On a related subway advertisement note, what's up with the Secret ads in the Union Square station? I think they read "Share your secret" and they'll feature someone's "secret" (one of them is "I have a crush on your father." etc) is this campaign a slight rip-off of the Post Secret Web site?
I'm not sure if they spoke to them prior agreeing to the campaign, but it makes me uneasy. I loathe unoriginality. I loathe copycats especially when they come in the form of massive ad agencies.
Anyone got the scoop?
Oh, and forgive me if I already missed the post on this. (If there was one.)
The deoderant is called "Secret"...it's not really a stretch that they would have secrets on their advertisements; maybe if they were on postcards, PostSecret may have a case, but come on, the idea of secrets is a universal concept.
So how is this "Jesus for Jews" group different from the "Jews for Jesus".... religion is so confusing....
I'd rather see a minimalist Jews for jesus ad then more of those awful, ugly budweiser ads that are EVERYWHERE.
Oh sorry. Just reread the post. Ignore my question.
Whatever happened to the separation of church and (NY) state? Any and all kinds of institutional religion of one kind or another that is promoted or publicized by subway advertisement, stress test, fold out brochure, preaching and otherwise should be prohibited.
I know the deoderant is called "Secret" I *get* it. But the URL is "shareyoursecret.com". The ads up are asking people to come share their secrets at that url, which is exactly the same concept as PostSecret.
Whatever. I'm not losing sleep over it. But I am willing to bet that whatever massive ad agency came up with it had Post Secret in mind.
someone was handing out these pamphlets "jesus for jews" pamphlets this morning underground at union square. besides this ad, i've seen them actually on the subways but not a takeover - just a subtle ad where zizmor use to be.
This has nothing to do with the seperation of church and state. The state is not in any way promoting a religion, its selling ad space. No one is confused that the MTA somehow wants people to become Jews for Jesus or to buy Akademic jeans or give blow jobs because the ads say so.
I got no problem with the ad or the religion. It's inoffensive and aesthetically pleasing.
Part of having public spaces is having to encounter people with different views and beliefs than you. That is a GOOD thing.
someone was handing out "jesus for jews" pamphlets this morning underground at union square. besides this ad, i've seen them actually on the subways but not a takeover - just a subtle ad where zizmor use to be.
I think they oughta take their ads over to the F stop by the NY Aquarium. That way they can target a new group: JAWS for Jesus.
Hahahahahaha!
Ah, Fridays...
Aren’t all religions cultish.
I have always had a problem with someone announcing a slogan "Jews for Jesus."
Jesus was for God and Jesus was a Jew who treated people with respect. In fact
In the bible notice that he, Jesus, wasn’t about advertising and announcements, but about, word of mouth. The emphasis of Jesus sermons around town was on the word he spoke. In fact, later, the secret fish symbol for years told people
who the Christians were and the fish was a message saying “I have studied the word”
PERIOD. The Christians only spoke about Christianity amongst themselves or
potential converts. Because the Jews and Romans were out to kill them. Jesus did not become a global household phenomenon until decades later. The masses who taught the word of God were “gentiles.”
Christians are not broken down into groups. They are all believers hoping that they got it right.
Jesus did not spread the word, the Christians/ “gentiles” did. If the New Testament fulfills; brings to an end; the Old Testament; then there is no reason for converts to Christianity to call themselves Jews. They are Christians (PERIOD).
Jew
A person whose mother was a Jew or who has converted to Judaism. According to the Reform movement, a person whose father is a Jew is also a Jew. Although the term is derived from the term "Judahite" (meaning a member of the tribe of Judah or a citizen of the kingdom of Judah), it has historically been applied to the patriarchs, the matriarchs and all of the descendants of Jacob and all converts to their faith.
I think they missed the boat somewhere.
Jesus is a teddy bear for adults.
christian, i think you just lost most of the gothamist readers. i disagree with you, however, this is not the place to get into why.
i would have no problems with a buddhist, muslim, or jewish ad. i don't think people would have a problem with another "jesus" ad either. the jewish community are obviously the ones who are most upset, and it's gotten them to speak up about it. we're fortunate to live in a country where we can do that, and i think that's a great thing.
I'm very disturbed by how little respect some people have for the first amendment and the importance of free speech.
This makes me think of "Buddy Christ". I would love a catholic "Buddy Christ" ad in the Subway. It's NY kids: if you can't beat em, deface their posters. Taking my Sharpie and headed to 42nd now. I'm thinking: "jesus" got my soul and all I got was this lousy poster.
wumanjoo:
I didn't lose the entire gothamist readers....I think I just lost you.
The Jews spoke up about Jesus and his followers also back in A.D., and it got him killed.
Why do the the Jews in New York feel that they need to speak up about the ad?
What is their concern in this era? Seriously. I'd like to know.
Who owns the cpyright on the title or name, Jew, in this land for freedom of speech society? Nobody....
I think they like sounding catchy & alliterative.
Maybe they chose this name to make them sound like an upbeat bunch.
Due to this advertising blitz I can only expect....
Catholics for Kabbalah
Agnostics for Allah
Baptists for Bhudda
and
Scientologists for Satan (yes!)
to soon follow.
Meh.
christian,
Repudiating an individual from the community and publicly denouncing his beliefs is not a very nice thing to do but it's hardly the same as "being out to kill" someone. That's where you lost me, at least. The Jews, who were just as persecuted as the early Christians under Roman rule, understandably wanted no part of the Jesus controversy. They had enough problems of their own. (We can discuss whether both minorities should have banded together and fought off their common oppressor another day.)
Anyway, the issue the Jews are having w/ J4J is that 1)they specifically target Jews and 2)try to convert them by convincing them they can be Jewish and accept Jesus as their Savior at the same time. (Which is kind of like telling a vegetarian he can enjoy a Big Mac and still be considered a vegetarian cause, y'know, it has lettuce & onions & stuff.) Why should anyone care what the Jews believe or don't believe?
None of which is illegal or unconstitutional, but really, in a progressive, secular society, a person's religion is really nobody else's damn business. So you should be prepared for some nasty looks if -- even if you do have good intnetions -- you're going to impose yourself on what is essentially a private matter.
christian, no, you certainly didn't lose me. i didn't want to be arguing with you on gothamist, but i just don't understand why you're getting so defensive about the fact that someone disagrees with you. have you spoken to a jewish person about what they're upset about? nobody *owns* the title, but they are the jewish people. where's the respect? btw, christian...i am a christian.
"Jaws for Jesus" comment = Awesome!
We should be so lucky to get comments like that on a random Friday.
christian, what you are upset about regarding the jews for jesus is the same thing the jewish community is upset about but from different perspectives.
the main thing i'm trying to get at is that i think it's great to live in a country where different view points can be expressed, whether you agree or not. that's it. can we go and enjoy our weekend now?
"What would be funny is if Scientologists set up their stress tests in front of them."
Well…..I always wanted to know what my Thetan levels were.
Missionaries only bug me when they try to get my attention through bullshit pamphlets and jibba jabba. If they don't stop, then I promptly pop open a can of whoop-ass and let fly my fists of fury.
First they condemn our lord and savior, and now they want to worship him???
Not on my watch.
I seriously doubt that Jews for Jesus target Jews foremost. If they are the type of Christians that want "everyone" to be saved,AND are fanatical, then they are targeting everyone. Most religious people carry banners like the billboards reading "Jews for Jesus" sign are fanatics/extremists.
Also, it is somewhat hard to fathom Jews going through same persecutions as Christians when the Jews were doing business with the Roman empire.
"Repudiating an individual from the community and publicly denouncing his beliefs is not a very nice thing to do but it's hardly the same as "being out to kill" someone. "
"Not very nice thing to do... " Who are you kidding? This is not daycare gothamist. Jesus was Jewish.
History is well documented. The Roman Jews wanted everything to do with getting rid of Jesus. The Roman Jews wanted Jesus silenced because they could not persuade him to stop preaching against their laws. That was map of order among their people. Jesus was talking about being the Messiah. Which means new laws and new leadership.
Jesus was not a contraversey to the Romans, only the Jews. Pontius Pilot, a roman centurion said, he couldn't see any wrong in which Jesus had done and his blood wouldn't be on his hands. Therefore, Pilot left it to the Jews to deal "their own."
Perhaps I can get some of y'all to help fund my new series of subway ads: "Life without God: Waaaay more satisfying than you think! Try it and compare!" It'll have smiling, attractive people on it.
Careful christian, or you'll unleash the wrath of ethos.
Aka….Hee-Bro
Ohhh, that's just Kojak, poor dear, who doesn't know sh!t from shinola.
Go take the red pill, dear. Then kindly remove the cork from your ass so you can enjoy the weekend like the rest of us.
bklynd, I'm in.
(christian said: "I seriously doubt that Jews for Jesus target Jews foremost."...)
No, this is *precisely* what J4J does. It is a cult targeted exclusively on converting Jews to their brand of Christianity (which they call "Judaism") It is utter mishugas.
But all that aside, as rikomatic says, there is no way that selling ad space can be confused with an endorsement by the MTA of the advertiser.
The most effective response of the Jewish community would inward-directed, that is, anything that helps strengthen traditional Jewish values and Jewish families, serious Jewish education, serious teaching of Hebrew, etc. It is the marginally-connected, poorly-educated (in a Jewish sense) young Jews who are the ones at risk of being taken in by J4J.
As a secondary response, humor and ridicule would be a good approach.. ("A man was taking a train from Minsk to Pinsk when another man in a J4J tee-shirt approached him and said....")
Jews for Jesus do primarily "targets" Jewish people. That's one reason members are typically out in bigger numbers during the high holidays of Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur.
One of the main motives of Jews for Jesus is to get more people to accept Jesus as their savior. Since Christians already do, Jews for Jesus reach out to Jews. The vegetarian eating a Big Mac analogy was perfect. JFJ tries to convince Jews that they don't have to give up their Jewish heritage (celebrating Passover, for example) just to accept Jesus.
JFJ typically refer to Jesus by his Hebrew name, Yeshua or Y'shua. This is to appeal to Jewish people, who may be more comfortable with the idea of accepting Jesus if the idea sounds like something they could have learned in Hebrew school. They do not do this to appeal to Christians.
By many standards, Jews for Jesus is considered a cult. More info:
http://www.exjewsforjesus.org/j4jquestions/
The person posting as "christian" (as opposed to all other Christian posters) really doesn't know what he's talking about.
kojak:
don't hold back. Consider yourself provoked. Go get em...take action with you key stroke. Show me what you know or as ethos put it, what you don't know. I don't have much time. Going to another site.
One more thing. Evidence of Jews for Jesus' intent to primarily convert Jews can be found in the very thing that stated this discussion, the slogan in the ads:
"Jesus for Jews."
christian is also confusing "history" with "the gospels." theologians would say those are two very different things.
You were trying to be sarcastic, but I take it literally. If you don't follow god, you WILL actually have a more satisfying life! You can have all the premarital sex you want! Eat anything you want, anytime! Sleep in on Sundays! Swear like a sailor! Make all the jokes you want and have ZERO guilt!
http://www.jt10000.com/tales/zxy.htm
Aside from the snark at the end (with the smiling, attractive people - what *would* we put in the ad?) I am serious. I [i]love[/i] life without the old man in the sky, and think it should have an ad campaign just like some religions do. Imagine the freakin' outrage, for one thing.
wow. so I wonder who's idea it was for 'jews for jesus' to make posters entitled 'jesus for jews'. as if thats not confusing: making your slogan the exact reversal of your name.
they have case studies on the some of the trains. "I was an activist my whole life, but never had a big enough cause. now I do." or something like that.
I was approached by these guys outside the botanical garden on sunday, they were wearing shirts which replaced the 'F' of 'for' with the subway 'F' symbol. I think the star of david was in there too. the shirts had 'jesus for jews' on them; at first I thought they were an opposition or splinter group to 'jews for jesus'. the woman just asked me, "Will you be in the city tomorrow night?"
The tagline:
"Living a good life is its own reward."
(Brought to you by the Council for Secular Humanism.)
>Aside from the snark at the end (with the smiling, attractive people - what *would* we put in the ad?)
Happy families, of course!
Wow - I'm actually surprised by all the outrage. I'd rather see these ads than those ridiculous Dewars ads of yesteryear (anybody remember those?). This J4J organization must have a fair amount of cash to have launched this campaign - any famous/loaded members, I wonder?
I wonder if people would be just as upset if it was an Islamic advertisement or some New Age ad. Mention the Name of the Savior of the world and people who don't know Him really get offended. Maybe they just don't like to be reminded that, without Jesus, their life is empty.
Part of the reason that people get offended at assertions of Christianity is that they know it is accompanied by all kinds of judgemental assumptions. Like your claim that a secular life is "empty."
...seriously, if an organization started promoting secularism using the same techniques, you KNOW a lot of folks would go absolutely apeshit.
I am a follower of Jesus and a gentile but never really liked Jewish people or thought much about them until I met Jesus and realized, duh, He's Jewish, how could I possibly not love and support the Jewish people?
So to all the offended Jews out there who don't like Jews for Jesus, before you get too offended remember that the current stream of American evangelicals, despite all their faults, are probably the best gentile allies you have ever had on the planet. You may have to put up with some prosyletizing here and there but hey, it's in our blood, OK?
It's interesting how things have flipped. The big stink in Jesus' day was whether the gentiles could even become followers of Jesus because they weren't Jewish!
uursa
As self-righteous as Christian wackos may be in terms of shunning the secular lifestyle, Muslim zealotry is ten times worse.
Thank your lucky stars that we don't have that brand of doom & gloom from our Times Square soapbox 'prophets'.
I liked it much better when all religions hated one another. At least there was some balance. It irks me to no end that evangelicals are doing the orthodox Jews' evil bidding.
"Doing the Orthodox Jews' evil bidding?" Where did you get that from? In Israel, it's the Ultra Orthodox who have made it felony to speak to anyone under 18 about Jesus. You can go to jail for it. Talk about 1st Amendment rights...
Jesus' major problems were with the ultra religous of His day, it's no different today. He sat around with the lowest classes in the Jewish society of that day and ate and drank with them.
They loved it when he confronted religious hypocrisy head-on. I have friends who are "secular", we have great discussions about all kinds of things about art, science, God, theater, books, history, you-name-it. The shame of the Christian evangelical community is that we gave up the high ground of being the driving force of the American intellectual world. Who do you think started Princeton, Columbia, and other higher ed institutions in this country? It wasn't "secularists". See Merle Curti, The Formation of American Thought.
Uursa
By evil bidding, I mean the enabling of a militant Israeli state.
Financial, political, etc.
You know, the whole 'Rapure'/end times kind of nonsense that leads people like our moronic president to assert that the holy land needs to be under the control of the Jewish people.
I have one thing to say as far as this topic is concerned. Who the hell cares! What the jews don't have a right to advertise? Who cares if they use this form of expression to spread there message! Move on!!!!
Anonymass,
I haven't read any of the Rapture books so I'm not up on all that. I'm interested in hearing your view of that as long as the Blog Police don't think we are deviating too far from the topic...
I think the Jewish people have set up shop in Israel as a nation after 2,000 years and they don't intend on going anywhere soon. As for the militant part, I guess being surrounded by 200 million arabs, many of which don't think you have a right to exist, might have something to do with their military posture.
President Bush is doing no less in support for Israel than any other president, democrat or republican, has done so I can't see the tie to the rapture thing so please explain your position.
Uursa
Still view the Israeli government as anything besides hyper-militant?
The NY Post article said that ads that discriminate on the basis of race ARE prohibited...I would argue that the "Jews for Jesus" ads fall under this category because Judaism is an ethnicity as well as a religion. Many of the posters have photos of people who look stereotypically "Jewish" with condescending captions like, "who is for these jews?"
Therefore, I think the "Jews for Jesus" posters, etc. are absolutely rascist and I think it's disgusting that they are allowed (in such great numbers) all over mass transit. Anyone who tries to target a relgious group based on physical characteristics is just following in the tradition of figures such as Hitler; in light of events in history as well as the current situation, these people should be ashamed. Their actions are anything but "holy." Jesus would hate them.
Rex: if Jesus really is your Lord and savior then YOU condemned Him along with everyone else because He died so your sins could be forgiven along with mine and everyone elses.
I don't know who you the the "our" in "our Lord and Savior" is but if the first missionaries (who were Jewish, like Peter and Paul) felt about Gentiles the way you do about Jews, you wouldn't have any Lord and Savior (who, by the way, is a Jew.) Oh, am I being cranky? Sorry. As a Jew for Jesus the post below is the only one on this blog that I find offensive.
Not on my watch.
[34] Posted by: Rex Kramer>>
Whats Jews for Jesus opinion about The Blessed Virgin Mary and also the stunning prophecies of Our Lady Of The Roses.ORG So much she said about the middle east is coming true, its unbelievable that Americas New York and national media is ignoring these messages. With thousands of pages of prophecies to read and study this would require intensive study and research by the media. ie HARD WORK There are major future implications for America in these messages, its time for Americas media to end its folly of ignoring these messages for the past, present and future. Yours Sincerely Vincent Ruane.com
Amazing. I find it utterly fascinating the vehemence exhibited by non-believers in regards to not only their strong disbelief of the Christian faith, but against Jesus Himself.
Jesus has been referred to as a "teddy bear", an offence against the state; his followers relegated to mere nuisances to be "kicked in the shins" whenever possible.
Sadly, this sentiment persists in what we of this age have come to term "the FREE world." Yet, if ever the collective conscience of humanity were held in contempt and awaiting judgement by some higher, it should scarcely find acquittal for its listed virtues amongst the entries posted herein.
This lack of tolerance for Christians or even the message of Christianity shows how much this world is in need of a Saviour. The good news is we have one in the person of the risen Jesus Christ, and this truth is incontestable.
The bad news is that our conscience and will has so been turned against Him so as to make it nearly impossible to accept Him willingly and humbly into our lives.
We cannot accomplish it on our own steam. We must lean on His ability in even the endeavor of acceptance of Him. The bible states: Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
So when you see the workers of God preaching the Kingdom message, don't revile them. These messengers you so despise are actually gifting you with a great service. Gratitude is in order, not reprisal.
I thank God for the previous post. I am a Christian, only having come to Christ 4 years ago, though growing up in the church, an easy place to miss Jesus if church is simply a political or cultural thing.
To the people who don't believe, consider a personal relationship with Jesus carefully before rejecting with vehement reflex. This is not about emotion. It's about God's promise. He said if I accept Jesus into my heart that he would keep me forever.
Above all, know that He is fair and His will is that all of us be saved.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
2Peter 3:9, 10 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Believe today. Don't let your heart harden toward God. Here is how:
Admit to your state of sin, not your "sins", but simply that you are separated from God. (That is the sin state.) Acknowledge the gift that God is offering you, salvation through Jesus. Then invite Jesus into your heart, believing that he really has come to you.
There are no exact words, as God hears your heart, but it may help to read this simple statement as a real example: God, I know I am a sinner. I believe that Jesus died for my sin. I accept that sacrifice and invite Him now into my life.
At that moment, you are saved. No one can ever take that away from you. It is exciting, what you've just done, but you don't have to feel any emotional rush. You are just taking God at his word, trusting his promise. It's written:
"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." Romans 10: 9,10
Take care.
eric
ChristSealed:
Amazing. I find it utterly fascinating the vehemence exhibited by non-believers in regards to not only their strong disbelief of the Christian faith, but against Jesus Himself.
Jesus has been referred to as a "teddy bear", an offence against the state; his followers relegated to mere nuisances to be "kicked in the shins" whenever possible.
Sadly, this sentiment persists in what we of this age have come to term "the FREE world." Yet, if ever the collective conscience of humanity were held in contempt and awaiting judgement by some higher, it should scarcely find acquittal for its few listed virtues amongst the entries posted herein.
This lack of tolerance for Christians or even the message of Christianity shows how much this world is in need of a Saviour. The good news is we have one in the person of the risen Jesus Christ, and this truth is incontestable.
The bad news is that our conscience and will has so been turned against Him so as to make it nearly impossible to accept Him willingly and humbly into our lives.
We cannot accomplish it on our own steam. We must lean on His ability in even the endeavor of acceptance of Him. The bible states: Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
So when you see the workers of God preaching the Kingdom message, don't revile them. These messengers you so despise are actually gifting you with a great service. Gratitude is in order, not reprisal.