Gothamist: Bicyclists' Deaths Mourned

mihow

Thu, 06 Jul 2006 17:16:28 -0500

CHN, so sorry about your loss. I believe you when you say the world is a better place because of your uncle. I'm so sorry. I noticed, as well, that everything got pretty quiet over here after you wrote. It should be said, especially when it comes to the Internet, that a lot of people talk a lot of crap. When hit with actual reality, people hush up. I do hope the silence is due to empathy and not out of cowardice and shame. I am really very sorry for your loss.

CHN

Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:16:17 -0500

All, The rider hit by the tow truck is my Uncle-For all of you assuming this was his fault, think again. My Aunt and Uncle have been riding for many years in the City and have ridden all over the world. They are very safe. This tow truck driver did not yield when he should have. And for anyone thinking that wearing a helmet would have saved him-think again. I spoke with the Dr's and no helmet would have made a difference because of where the impact was. You people are so funny thinking you have all the answers without all the facts. The world is a better place because of my uncle. We should all strive to a be a little more like him.

g

Thu, 29 Jun 2006 08:42:56 -0500

I posted this on the other thread... One constructive thing people can do is to call 311 when you see unsafe conditions, such as the slick metal plates used to cover the streets during construction. If they are not flush with the street or grooved, they are in violation of the law. These are the same kinds of plates that are believed to have contributed to Derek Lake's accident. Since we all have cell phones, call 311 from wherever you are. It takes less than five minutes to report something like this.

pugsley

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 18:14:10 -0500

I saw one of the white bikes and thought it was a moving memorial installed by the rider's friends. I didn't realize it was installed by an organization that exploits people's deaths to grind their own axes. lame.

Mike

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 17:39:33 -0500

I wear a helmet when I ride my bike and I obey all laws. As a cyclist and a pedestrian I have almost been hit by negligent motorists dozens of times. I see at least ten cars a day run red lights and stop signs. They ignore the pedestrian's right of way in crosswalks. They roll through stops and block intersections. When turning right, they only look to the left for on coming traffic and not to the right for pedestrians. They blow through stops to avoid having to wait an extra two seconds for a pedestrian who is trying to cross. They endanger cyclists and pedestrians to "get ahead in the moment" and then have to stop anyway for a light a hundred feet ahead of the spot they almost killed someone at. As a responsible motorist for 17 of the past 33 years, I have NEVER almost hit a pedestrian or a cyclist while driving - - even the reckless ones! Motorists ar far more of a problem to everyone than cyclists or pedestrians are. Anyone who says otherwise never walks or rides a bile in an urban environment, and is simply exhibiting the cars-first, self-absorbed behavior that causes this whole debate in the first place.

kerri

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 16:24:33 -0500

If anyone has the time to take a break from this discussion, please check out www.dereklakefilms.com or watch Derek's films on www.youtube.com. He was extremely talented and I hope that in light of this horrible accident that people will take a few minutes to enjoy his work. Thank you.

Adam

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 16:17:48 -0500

Helmets schmelmets. Everyone should wear helmets, but helmets don't prevent crashes. Safety is better served by safe streets. Also, safer bikers and alert drivers, and to the extent that the city can encourage both of those through smart road design, the better!

bk_ck

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:49:04 -0500

mihow, band together, and anyone else interested in doing something (as opposed to spouting on the internet): TA and a coalition of bike groups are organizing a press event and RALLY TOMORROW at 9AM at CITY HALL. For more info go to TA's website (link for press release): http://www.transalt.org/press/releases/060627cyclistcrashes.html See comment #28 for why I think people interested in safer streets should attend this rally - it's all about press and public pressure, people. Change is a slow process, but once public awareness reaches a tipping point it is inevitable. Write your city council person, write to the mayor (and his new office of sustainability), write to your mother, but MOST IMPORTANT SHOW YOUR FACE AND STAND UP for a safer, saner street environment.

h

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:29:57 -0500

another suggestion: see the movie "Contested Streets" at the IFC center or get the DVD. http://www.contestedstreets.com/

evolution, folks, evolution

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:20:34 -0500

eh, kojak has a point, and this nicely follows a commentator going by the name of "darwin." with rising gas prices, etc. we can see humans making another major evolutionary leap perhaps. long ago changes took place contributing to a shift in the preponderance of somewhat crouched early humans to upright later humans. now we may see a shift back to the crouched positon... this time over bikes. many have made the leap, but that is an adaptation as of yet.... only when the change catches on far more may it become a true evolutionary shift (albeit, a more behavioral one rather than a biological one). ride on!

CLM

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:18:59 -0500

The real issue is personal responsibility - something sorely lacking in cyclists. Read the quote from the NY times below and you might see what I mean. (...snip...) But yesterday, almost nobody stopped unless a vehicle was about to cross. Streams of cyclists, young and old, fast and slow, blithely rode through on red. - Darwin How many times a day do you stop and stand through an entire cycle of don't-walk when there are no cars on the street, Darwin? Do you always use a crosswalk, or do you sometimes cross in teh middle of the block? Unless you obey the pedestrian signals all the live-long day, don't get sanctimonious about cyclists who don't stop at a red on a separated bike path when no cars are present... Glass houses, my friend! At least drivers and pedistrians don't pretend to be victims of their own stupidity. Really? How many auto accidents every day do you suppose are excused with "I just didn't see him" or "That car came out of nowhere"? How many pedestrians have posted in this thread and the previous ones, complaining that cyclists have passed too close when they stepped out into traffic? Sure, some cyclists are morons - but so are a lot of drivers and pedestrians, and only your bias prevents you from seeing that.

David Charles

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:18:05 -0500

Darwin, you're a complete tool. The primary proof of your tool-ness is your assumption that anything printed or anyone quoted in the Times simply MUST be accurate. Your own quote proves my point: >>The real issue is personal responsibility - something sorely lacking in cyclists . . . Are pedistrians irresponsible? Are Drivers irresponsible? Sure. But the holier than thou no rules apply to me attitude of cyclists is a big problem. - Posted by: Darwin | June 28, 2006 01:17 PM Douchebag! How many times each day do you cross a street against the crossing light? Or in the middle of the block? Do you deserve to jaywalk because you're just so special, or are you a huge hypocrite with a big old 'no rules apply to me attitude?' >>At least drivers and pedistrians don't pretend to be victims of their own stupidity. - Posted by: Darwin | June 28, 2006 01:17 PM I don't know about all that. I sure feel like a victim of your stupidity.

mihow

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:15:40 -0500

bk_ck, what's that all about? I would like to hear more. I very well may have missed the information here and will scan it again. But, in the meantime, should you see this, might you post a link or more information? I might check that out. Also, if Tobyjoe is up for it, I think we'll take part in that ride tomorrow evening.

Band together

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 15:14:19 -0500

We need to band together. How many times must we hear about Queens Blvd being the "blvd of death"? Not just that but has anyone noticed a rash of cars crashing up into the sidewalks, lately. The bus that went through a house in Queens, the NYC official who went into a restaurant on Houston Street, the ped who got killed by a wayward truck exiting the Manhattan Bridge.

bk_ck

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 14:40:54 -0500

D- Attend the Rally/Press Event at City Hall tomorrow 9am.

g

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 14:11:15 -0500

Nacht was doing nothing wrong, ran no red lights, when the tow truck ran into HIM. Yes, bikers are irresponsible a lot of the time, but where drivers are irresponsible they have to be held accountable.

fedup

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 13:24:17 -0500

I think it is only natural for the venting of RAGE when on the topic of transportation in this city. This is New York City, It's a mess, but is it worse than 20 years ago or even 100 years ago? Bikes have always been treated poorly, I do think people drive more single occupancy passenger cars, even though it is really stupid.

D

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 13:23:31 -0500

things you can do today: - write a letter to the editor of any of the city's papers (Times, Post, Daily News) - write a letter to the department of transportation - join Transportation Alternatives for only $30: https://www.transalt.org/about/online.html - attend tomorrow's memorial ride (thursday @ 6:30 PM) http://ppolnews.com/?id=82135&keys=Memorial-Bicycle-Ride other suggestions?

Kojak

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 13:17:41 -0500

Once gas goes over $5.00 (And it will) I think you'll start to see more of those bike lanes that your looking for, and maybe, just maybe a lot more bikers. Hell I wouldn’t be against destroying the grand central parkway and turning the roads into track for more commuter rail. Trains, above all else will be the future. Bikes on the other hand is a short range option. Since most of the city's commuters live too far to actually ride a bike to work, I'd invest more in public transport.

Darwin

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 13:17:00 -0500

The real issue is personal responsibility - something sorely lacking in cyclists. Read the quote from the NY times below and you might see what I mean. Are pedistrians irresponsible? Are Drivers irresponsible? Sure. But the holier than thou no rules apply to me attitude of cyclists is a big problem. At least drivers and pedistrians don't pretend to be victims of their own stupidity. From the times: "But the ride yesterday revealed another cause for concern. Despite traffic lights and signs at most hazardous intersections that warn cyclists of the danger of vehicles crossing the path, few of the cyclists abide by the rules. "Almost everybody rides through the red lights," said Bill Durgin, 35, a photographer who stopped on his bike ride from a waterfront tennis court near Houston Street to his home on North Moore Street. Nearby, at the entrance to Pier 40, a ramshackle parking garage at the foot of Houston Street, the state's Department of Transportation has constructed a "speed table" for cyclists. The device creates a slightly elevated speed bump for motorists driving over the bike path, but retains a level surface for cyclists. The state, which designed the bike path, has also installed traffic lights at the Pier 40 entrance. As elsewhere along the path, the lights flash red and green images of bicycles, leaving no doubt who is ordered to stop. But yesterday, almost nobody stopped unless a vehicle was about to cross. Streams of cyclists, young and old, fast and slow, blithely rode through on red."

Darwin

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 13:01:57 -0500

Ron: False assumptions are what death is all about.

Glenn

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 12:58:08 -0500

Rather than continuing to bash each other, perhaps we could concentrate on meaningful solutions to these issues. Such as REAL BIKE LANES and policies that would limit the number of cars and slow them down to 15-20 mph, which would reduce the death rate from all these so-called "accidents" dramatically.

Kojak

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 12:47:10 -0500

"Hopefully something positive can come from these tragedies." Sorry Kim. That usually doesn’t happen until after the 5th biker fatality. There has to be a sufficient amount of outrage and death before steps are taken to make bikers safer in NYC. That’s how city government works.

kim

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 12:43:43 -0500

A helmet would not have helped Derek Lake. A helmet MIGHT have helped Dr. Nacht, based on the description of the accident. I think it's fine to use these tragedies to illustrate the importance of a whole host of things, including bike safety, improved road conditions, better bike lanes, harsher punishment for bikers and drivers who break the law, and general pedestrian safety. Hopefully something positive can come from these tragedies.

S.D.

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 12:41:27 -0500

Damit, Hit the button by mistake... In any case, I think people should remember the Victims more than argue about helmets and how Evillll Bikers are.

S.D.

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 12:33:46 -0500

S.D., Derek Lake's horrific death was also truly a tragedy!kerri , I quite agree, he died before his time. Seems that rather than concentrate on that, people here want to Bash BikersBash PedestriansBash CopsMake statements about HelmetsBash each other Did I miss any? These victims of these Accidents were just normal people trying to get by and enjoy life. Should people wear helmets? Absolutely. Should people make statements

ron

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 12:15:29 -0500

Darwin, from your comment it is apparent that you've never been to the west side highway path. I really recommend taking a jog or a ride there - it's a beautiful, if sometimes congested, recreational pathway.

Kojak

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 12:14:08 -0500

Guess what? Lets focus our rage on something else!

safe

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 12:08:46 -0500

a helpful reminder of all laws (including that it is illegal to wear headphones while driving or biking), from Tranportation Alternatives: http://www.transalt.org/info/share.html

bike

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 12:04:55 -0500

New York State laws for bicycling. http://www.nysgtsc.state.ny.us/bike-vt.htm#sec1232 Worth reading by drivers and bikers alike, with attention paid to the last part. It does not let drivers off the hook.

kerri

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 11:57:36 -0500

S.D., Derek Lake's horrific death was also truly a tragedy!

Larry Armstrong

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 11:53:46 -0500

Killiag, your statement would lend one to believe that cyclist deaths really aren't worth all of this newsprint. "Only 21."

S.D.

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 11:45:08 -0500

Meanwhile, Back on Topic... Anyone actually going to the Ride? From everything I've read, Dr. Nacht death is truly a tragedy. My condolance to his wife.

Compare apples to apples

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 11:44:43 -0500

The fact that 10x as many pedestrians are killed as bikers does not necessarily mean that it is more dangerous to be a pedestrian. If one assumes that there are 10x (or more) pedestrians than bikers, which seems to be a safe assumption to make, then walking is actually safer than biking.

bk_ck

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 11:43:41 -0500

In addition to the ride Thursday pm, there is a rally at city hall tomorrow at 9am. TA, time's up, and other bike/pedestrian groups will be holding a press conference and rally to advocate for safer conditions for cyclists and for increase enforcement by police against traffic violations that result in injuries to cyclists and pedestrians. A lot of reporters are starting to ask questions about why police do not ticket drivers after accidents with cyclists and pedestrians and why NYC, a city brimming with pedestrians and cyclists, has such a hostile environment for non-motorists. Each of these accidents resulted from risks that cyclists face daily. A strong showing from us will help show the press and public that we are fed up with having to face the life threatening conditions and hostility from motorists that have become the norm for NYC streets.

nick

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 11:42:45 -0500

wear a backpack, take a helmet with you when you ride a bike, put it in the backpack when you aren't riding. i dont know how wearing a helmet has turned into a political or sociological statement. if a bike helmet saves 1 person a year i think that is reason enough to just throw one on when you're on a bike. it's 10 ounce piece of headgear! its not like its some oppressive piece of machinery.

Darwin

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 11:40:02 -0500

Did gothamist read the same article I just read? http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/28/nyregion/28bike.html?adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1151509027-gNG4mH4dM392dhqgRSH1Mg Note the repeated mentioning of cyclists paying zero attention to traffic signals.

..._^^_

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 11:36:41 -0500

"I'm offended because she's singling out bikers when pedestrians have a far more dangerous lifestyle. It's safer to be on a bike than walking on the street." killag, your logic is flawed. just because there are more deaths from pedestrians does not mean it's more dangerous. there are millions of pedestrians on the street everyday, a number that bicyclists are nowhere near. imagine all those pedestrians on bicycles and i'm sure this death rate would skyrocket. ease up and think it through.

ag

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 11:34:44 -0500

The infrastructure for biking here sucks, and bikers become more aggressive - sometimes irresponsibly so - in response. It amazes me the lack of protective gear here, frankly. I communted by bike for two years in Portland, OR and a huge percentage of people wore helmets, used reflectors on their bikes, and "butt-flashers" on their bags to make sure cars were aware of them. Everyday, every time they rode their bikes. Also, bikes follwed traffic rules, signalling before turning, never riding on sidewalks (even messengers, mostly) and riding with traffic instead of the wrong way on one ways. As a result, bikers and pedestrians were safer and cars were more aware of the bikes in their midst. And more people were able to ride because it was less life-threatening. That said, the city made a big effort to make biking safe. There were many, many more bike lanes than here, more cyclists in general and you could take your bike on the bus or light rail. I know, Portland is a mellow hippie city, but it's also a more accessible biking city because of city policies and biker responsibilty - New York can occasionally take a cue from other places.

killiag

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 11:29:23 -0500

also all this "wear a helmet" talk is just a kneejerk reaction to televized bicycle deaths when in the big scheme of things (only 21 last year) are very rare. It's like they watch the telly, think they are the authority and start preaching. It's like the pope saying "war is bad, peace is good" and people going "why didn't I think of that? The pope's a genius!" It's so damn condescending.

killiag

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 11:24:08 -0500

I'm offended because she's singling out bikers when pedestrians have a far more dangerous lifestyle. It's safer to be on a bike than walking on the street.

..._^^_

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 11:19:40 -0500

why so defensive killag? she's just telling people they should be safe and wear a helmet. what's so wrong with that?

JOUJ

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 11:16:40 -0500

My philosophy is I'd rather die without a helmet than live without my arms. Cause in this society they shun you if you don't have arms.

Rocknrope

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 11:14:43 -0500

Kate, I take it you don't follow cycling much?

lance anderson

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 11:11:09 -0500

I'm appalled at the number of pedestrians I see walking irresponsibly through the city, not looking where they're going and crossing against the lights. Once, a pedestrian bumped in to me and spilled my coffee all over my shirt. Everyone should drive cars and segway scooters instead.

killiag

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 11:09:21 -0500

"I am shocked at the number of bicyclists I see riding irresponsibly through the city streets. Ignoring traffic lights and pedestrians, racing along like they're Lance Anderson. I have almost been hit by people on bikes numerous times (in fact, I was hit at slow speeds by a delivery boy riding on the sidewalk!" -MisspInkKate. Well, I'm shocked at the number of pedestrians who walk irresponsibly by walking in the street, in the bike lanes, hailing cabs, not looking when they cross the street, jaywalking and ignoring traffic lights. In fact I've almost hit people numerous times on my bike because they failed to look both ways when they cross the street. ALso, helmets are optional! and again MORE PEDESTRIANS GET KILLED BY CARS THAN BIKERS BY A 10-1 RATIO!!! SO SHUT THE FUCK UP WITH YOUR HOLIER THAN THOU "YOU SHOULD WEAR A HELMET" TALK AND GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE!

bill

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 10:59:14 -0500

Lance Anderson is an irresponsible prick. Like most cyclists.

d

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 10:58:17 -0500

I don't think it's accepting fear to wear a helmet. It's accepting statistics! You're on a road with heaps of rolling metal that weigh upwards of two tons and can travel 30 - 50 mph in the city. You're riding a 15-pound bike, wearing shorts and a T shirt, going 15 mph, tops. Is it really accepting fear to look at these conditions, an imbalance of power, and say, "Gee, at the very least I should wear a helmet?" Yes, there are risks in every activity, including just walking down the street, but risk in one area does not negate the need for protection in another.

Daniel Millstone

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 10:57:48 -0500

I should wear a helmet more. That said, the conditions for cyclists and pedestrians are dangerous because of the policies put into place by NYC government. Those policies are designed to encourage the flow of motor vehicle traffic. They include: vast areas of our streets reserved for parking, a red light/green light system designed specifically around the needs of auto and truck traffic, street repair standards -- like those metal plates we find all over -- which are OK for motor vehicles but not for bikes, trikes, strollers or wheelchairs. No one is claiming we shouldn't repair streets (the DOT's bizzare, defensive response notwithstanding), but transportation policy and municipal practice in NYC favors auto and truck traffic and harms walkers and rollers. Enough already.

DMo

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 10:55:42 -0500

Lance Anderson?

MissPinkKate

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 10:52:04 -0500

I am shocked at the number of bicyclists I see riding irresponsibly through the city streets. Ignoring traffic lights and pedestrians, racing along like they're Lance Anderson. I have almost been hit by people on bikes numerous times (in fact, I was hit at slow speeds by a delivery boy riding on the sidewalk!)

g

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 10:45:53 -0500

It is true that in most of these extreme examples that capture the public's (and the media's) attention, a helmet might not have made made much of a difference. But that's not a reason not to wear one! I have seen so many seemingly minor accidents result in tragedy, all because of a decision not to wear a helmet. In the park two years ago, I saw a cyclist and a rollerblader collide at a very low speed, not much more than 5 mph. The rollerblader was wearing full gear (helmet, pads), the cyclist had her helmet hanging on her handlebars. A lot of good it did her when she fell over and landed on her head. I found out later she had been brain damaged. All from a slow collision! A helmet would have made all the difference. So it isn't the case that a helmet can only save a life in an "exceptional circumstance." Helmets save lives in everyday, ordinary circumstances and only in the very exceptional circumstances are their merits debatable. The majority of crashes and accidents happen in the 10 - 14 mph range anyway. (Aside from racers and more competetive riders, most bike riders rarely reach speeds of more than 11 - 12 miles per hour.

drewo

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 10:44:16 -0500

Right Killiag. The tourist who was stabbed on the subway recently might have prevented injury if he was wearing a kevlar vest. Maybe all subway riders should wear kevlar vests! Instead of accepting life in our fear-based society, perhaps we should address the sources of those fears and work to change that. Otherwise, why leave the house? It's dangerous out there.

Kati

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 10:35:14 -0500

Hey CLM- You are absolutely right, and in the case of my best friend who died, the nurses told me they didn't think a helmet could have helped much, because of the force of the impact. But still- why take a chance, right? It's just so sad. Take care, be safe.

killiag

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 10:34:37 -0500

what the hell is with all this helmet talk? Let's see: for every bike rider that is killed without a helmet there are ten more pedestrians that get killed. Last year only 21 bikers got killed, wearing a helmet or not, while around 200 pedestrians get killed every year. Should pedestrians wear helmets? Full Body armor? Well according to Kati's logic they should cause it's even more dangerous for pedestrians to be on the street than bikers.

eliz

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 10:32:56 -0500

The NY Times heads to the West Side Greenway and finds it "perfect" except when there are drivers what does that sentence even mean? obviously the greenway isn't safe if there are DRIVERS on it. the ability to turn directly onto the greenway from the west side highway is completely absurd and dangerous.

CLM

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 10:27:24 -0500

Tim N- It's not so much a question of whether the police will be following this ride (they will) as it is a question of how aggressively their undercovers among the cyclists try to encourage confrontation.

C.H.U.D.

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 10:26:44 -0500

In this day and age, how much more of a message about wearing helmets when cycling do we need? It's like wearing a seat belt - you know the alternative is possibly losing your life, so if you're not doing it to "look cool" or "it's uncomfortable" or you "think you don't need it", then you're doing it at your own risk. Quite frankly, when I see a cyclist without a helmet, I think they should know better. But hell, people don't wear seatbelts, smoke cigarettes, and have unprotected sex, so it's not a big surprise.

CLM

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 10:24:33 -0500

Kati, A helmet can only save a life in an exceptional circumstance. They're designed to take the force of a 10- to 14-mph crash -- which could easily cause brain damage -- but they won't protect in a crash severe enough to cause death from head-strike alone. That said, I'd rather not be brain-damaged, and I wear my helmet every single time I'm on my bike - a bit over 5,000 miles last year. But I'm also aware that it's not a force field protecting me from all harm, as so many non-riders seem to think.

drewo

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 10:16:22 -0500

Thanks for providing the memorial ride info.

Kati

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 10:14:48 -0500

I'd like to see more emphasis on the importance of wearing helmets. PLEASE. It boggles my mind seeing so many bike riders in NYC cruising thru these city streets with no helmet. Choosing whether or not to wear one is literally a life & death decision. I can't stress this enough. I've known two amazing people killed on their bikes, because of head injuries alone. I hope Gothamist and other media outlets remind people do this more. Thanks.

Tim N.

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 09:59:59 -0500

Nice to see DOT is so concerned for their project as opposed to Lake's squished head. Will the police be following this ride, too?