Gothamist: Did a Metal Construction Plate Cause Houston Street Bike Death?

Rockabike

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 12:42:03 -0500

Kerri, Please don't heed the comments posted here by the trolls. They sit back in safe cyberspace and hurl insults at everyone they can. It's like this on most bulletin boards and certainly on comment threads about bikes. I can't imagine your loss, and hope that you remember your brother for all the wonderful things he did with his life. Absolutely don't listen to these people when they say shitty things about him or any cyclist; it's unfortunately the norm on Gothamist and other blogs. We'll put out some extra flowers on the Memorial Ride tomorrow night for every insult that morons have spewed here.

kerri

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 11:12:55 -0500

Hi Yeah, that was a really mean post. Derek was a brilliant writer and filmmaker. So he has a brand new myspace page and acted like a drunken goofball with his lifelong friends and girlfriend on his vacation a few weeks ago. Who wasn't silly in college and right after college? I was much worse than that, and I thank God there was no Myspace back then! Derek had a wicked sense of humor. It wasn't all that he was. I never knew that Myspace side of him, but I am sure everything he said on there related to in-jokes between his closest friends, and he should not be faulted for being human. He was an intelligent, well spoken, kind person. He worked his ass off and was VERY professional while working. People, please stop with the mean comments. He was such a great person and he was not an irresponsible, reckless driver at all. That bike was new. He wanted to get into shape so he was riding it to and from work. Period. Please, think of his family.

jayKayEss

Wed, 28 Jun 2006 10:43:43 -0500

@dave No, you get real. If you read the news, you'd realize it's a coalition of Midtown businesses and corporations that are pressuring the city for a congestion zone.

Yeesh

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 23:07:24 -0500

Derek seemed a real charmer -- he wants to meet "You're mother" and counts among his fave films "Pyscho" Sex, drinking and making movies - what else is here (per his MySpace). Hmmm... He had a cute muffintop goin though.

Alec

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 20:29:26 -0500

He was my friend from high school. I don't think this is anyone's fault and I am mortified no matter what. People need to be careful. I am still in shock since last night, the kid got ran over

tek

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 17:32:52 -0500

people seem to come to NYC and expect it to be like a sleepy suburb... no high rises here, no construction there, too much congestion here, bla, bla, bla. Its a freakin' huge city, the hustle, bustle, interaction, development, dirt, traffic, culture, diversity is all part of it. plus the last post was so absolutely right, last thing we need here is an additional tax and additional ways for the city to raise money by having police harass normal people going about their business -- unfortunately my own boss is moving our company to NJ because of the expenses - don't feel good about that -- anyway just had to vent. LOL

dave

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 16:29:46 -0500

get real... you put congestion taxes in the city and watch as your job move out of state(or if they are going to bother to move and can, out of the country). Even though the management and upper rungs could pay, it would just give them more incentive to move out of NYC. The taxes businesses and people pay in general is way out of whack with the rest of the country - it would just add another reason to leave... and believe me they have been for a while.

drewo

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 15:08:56 -0500

Rather, limit autos to off-hours for deliveries only. The same could apply to Broadway from 14th Street to Canal. It is often so crowded with pedestrians, people practically have to walk in the streets. There would be a big hue and cry if such changes were enacted, then after a period of time, the city and the merchants would realize they can still draw customers (if not even more), that the business of the city would not suffer, and the quality of life for residents (and taxpayers) would improve.

anonymass

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:56:27 -0500

They should just turn 5th Ave into one big bike lane.

glenn

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:41:29 -0500

That picture of the streets in Copenhagen is great. Thanks. It doesn't have to be every street in the city, but some version of that is a possibility here and would be awsome.

Duderinoo

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:36:40 -0500

rog - Actually, studies have shown (and Gothamist has cited some before) that most traffic in the city is caused by commuters. In midtown traffic is mainly cabs, but not so in the areas between Chambers and 23rd. Studies by TA have shown that increasing tolls or introducing congestion pricing during the day would significantly reduce traffic and smog.

nic

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 14:28:11 -0500

It's disgusting that Transportation Alternatives chooses to use tragic events such as this one to place blame, when the unfortunate truth (biking down a busy street that is under construction is basically suicide) is readily apparent to anyone with some common sense. Transportation Alternatives isn't blaming anyone; they're citing the dangerous conditions that contributed to this tragedy. This construction area is dangerous to pedestrians, cars and bikes (and in violation of the law). It should be corrected, not avoided. Transportation Alternatives does this work year round. Unfortunately, the media and many people only pay attention after a tragedy.

drewo

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 13:59:22 -0500

As reported elsewhere, congestion pricing has proved to be very effective in reducing auto traffic in central London. You want to play, you have to pay. Bicycles as vehicles do not damage the roads and bridges the way that 2-ton autos do. They occupy a fraction of the public space, they don't make noise and they don't foul the air. And they don't kill and injure people in the inordinate numbers that cars do. The great cities of the world promote safe bicycle commuting by building and maintaining segregated bike paths and enforcing laws intended to protect the bicycle commuter. New York City is not worthy of being called a great city.

Kerri

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 13:58:19 -0500

Derek was not a reckless driver and I think that it is really inappropriate for people to keep blaming him for his own death. He was an amazing person. Very intelligent and extremely talented. Let's not forget that he lost his life and it is a tragedy.

Glenn

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 13:57:12 -0500

Plain and simple. Onstreet bike paths separated from car traffic is the only way to end these senseless deaths... Here's a great picture of a Copenhagen Bike Lane Note how it is separated from automobile traffic.

rog

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 13:38:06 -0500

I dont know the specifics of this incident, since I wasnt there, but I can tell you that most cyclists that ride the streets in NYC repect none of the traffic laws and I've seen them cause accidents weaving between vehicles, disregarding traffic lights and one-way streets. NYC has decent public transport, use it and ride in the parks. BTW, most residents of the city do not drive into manhattan as it is rediculous to park and there is traffic. Most of the congestion seems to be caused by trucks and particularly cabs with some city busses thrown in, so increasing taxes and thinking it will reduce traffic in the city is bordering on retarded.

johan

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 13:33:34 -0500

the underlying problem is there are TOO MANY PEOPLE in New York. The reason cars need to drive reckless cause if they actually obeyed the laws they would move at around 3 miles per hour. If you get to a crosswalk and have the light and go slowly a pedestrian will cross it and then a swarm of pedestrians will follow him/her and you will be blocking the box because of a glut of jaywalkers. this is why cars don't give a shit. It all starts with pedestrians not giving a shit about traffic laws. that carries over to the cars and bikes. It's simple really. All we need is either another huge terrorist attack to make people leave new york again or a massive bird flu epidemic to kill most new yorkers. That will solve the traffic problem. In New York, Only the Strong survive. Either the strong or loudmouthed whiners.

mh

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 13:24:03 -0500

The metal plates are pretty bad. My experience has been that they are not secure. When large vehicles role over them, the are even more un- steady. The biker should have known better. He should have taken a quieter and better maintained street. ___________________________ Damn feminists. You all shouldn't be talking. You’re the worst bunch of drivers out there! [36] Posted by: Kojak | June 27, 2006 11:21 AM ___________________________ Are you kidding Kojak. What is a Damn feminists? They probably drive exactly like you do since they believe in equality. Feminists' believe that they have the same skill potential as any man. There is a difference between a bad driver and causing an accident because you didn't see someone in your blind spot.

Duderinoo

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 13:17:06 -0500

As for congestion pricing, cycles are vehicles and should be charged accordingly. Darwin, you knew that was idiotic when you wrote it. And by the way, your Natural History show stinks. As an aside, I was just standing at the corner of Bleecker and Broadway, waiting for the walk sign and saw the following: 3 illegally parking/parked cars, 1 cyclist riding the wrong way, 2 SUV drivers on their non-hands-free cell phones, 1 taxi take a swerving left turn to avoid hitting a pedestrian with a stroller (legally crossing), 2 jaywalkers, 1 cyclist running a red light, 1 car in need of an obvious emissions test, and 1 car running a red light (which almost hit me). If there had been 2 cops at this intersection, they could have easily just written about $1500 worth of tickets. I'm sure there would have been some speeding if not for the fact that there was so much congestion. Where's the enforcement???

g

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 13:15:57 -0500

rockabike, thanks for the address. i'm going to write a letter and hope a lot more people will, too!

BrianVan

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 13:15:32 -0500

I've had to call 311 numerous times about loose metal plates. It seems construction workers are very careless about securing them properly. The city should definitely be held accountable for this...

Darwin

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 13:08:24 -0500

Duderinoo

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 13:07:26 -0500

I just read this in AM New York: "A police spokesman said yesterday that only officers who witness a crash personally can issue a violation to the driver." That's infuriating. Does it apply to all laws; that is, can I kill someone and get away with it as long as a cop doesn't see it personally? Also, this apparently doesn't apply to traffic cameras, so I know that most cyclists are civil liberty enthusiasts, but I think if every intersection in this city had a camera aimed at it to record who was at fault, I'd be in favor.

Meredith

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 12:50:55 -0500

Those metal plates are really terrible. I've slipped and nearly fallen on wet ones at least 3 times -- just on foot.

jayKayEss

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 12:39:56 -0500

I see bicyclists squeeze between cars and trucks like that all the time, and it always scares the sh*t out of me. People need to be careful.

C-Dale M5

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 12:35:43 -0500

Larry, "New York will be a great city once they finish building it."

Urania

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 12:33:11 -0500

Houston street is a nightmare, yes, but no one deserves to die Larry, I'm sure you're joking, but hey, it's not that funny. I once saw a big fellow in a great big SUV yell and spit at a young woman who was pushing a baby stroller across the street (on Norfolk and Houston). She had the light, but he needed to turn real bad! So he yelled at her the entire time she was crossing and then sped past her so fast, the wind knocked over one of her bags. A cyclist stopped and helped her and comforted her since she was so shaken. We asked her if she wanted to report the drive for menacing her, but she was so frightened she couldn't recall the license plate number.

Larry

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 12:18:51 -0500

Anyone who bicycles on Houston deserves to die. That street is a friggin mess, not to mention all the hideous apartments that have ruined the area.

C-Dale M5

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 11:57:37 -0500

Did a metal construction plate kill the cyclists? It’s possible. Did the cyclist use good vehicular judgement? Manhattan, for a long time, has too many non commercial vehicles. A non commercial vehicle tax should be charged to all persons who choose to drive into Manhattan—all bridges and tunnels into Manhattan including the major paths, the Williamsburg, Brooklyn, Manhattan, and Queens bridges. People drive into Manhattan to have the comfort of their own car, smoking access, music, etc. Gas prices should be curtailing this nonsensical behavior, but it seems it is getting worse as the price of oil skyrockets, now that odd! The problem here is not the bicyclist per se, it's ignorant drivers who DO realize the congestion of all traffic, but just do not care. They’re in their car, no world except their own exists outside their vehicle. --- On the other side of the spectrum, some bicyclists think the road and the world around it is their own, they’re untouchables. I wanted, this morning, to close-line a bicyclist (non messenger) for going the wrong way down a street and almost hitting me with no warning as I crossed on a “green light”, which means he ran the red... Most messengers whistle or use a horn to warn people of their approach (I certainly do, it’s good road ettiquette). When walking I deliberatly get in the way of Chinese delivery men who ride on the sidewalk (they're the only ones who do it, with the exception of children, who by law are allowed to ride on the sidewalk if under the age of 14). New York City bicyclists must abide by many laws, many which are the same as the automobile traffic that surrounds them. Pretend you’re a motorcycle or moped without an engine. Here are some handy links for bicyclists who are oblivious to the laws and rules governing the safety of their own well-being. http://www.dot.state.ny.us/pubtrans/share.html http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/bikeped/bike-nyc.html http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcode.pl?frame=right2&code=NY&ls=claws&law=127&art=57

Duderinoo

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 11:55:46 -0500

J - I agree with you. Nobody should be driving so fast in New York (Manhattan in particular) that they kill somebody. Carl Nacht was thrown 12 feet into the air by a car taking a right turn. I've been hit three times by cars taking right turns into me (twice on a bike, once on feet), and once I was knocked back several feet; another time I ended up on the hood of the car. My point is that the car was probably going 10-15 mph when I've been hit, so that NYPD tow truck must have been hauling ass through that right turn. Why no ticket?? No ticket for failing to yield? No ticket for speeding? No ticket for involuntary manslaughter??? The fact that NY1 and the major papers in ths city are actually covering these two tragic deaths hopefully means that some pressure will finally be put on the city and NYPD to enforce traffic rules. More tickets for speeding, red lights (including cyclists), failing to yield, illegal parking please!!

J

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 11:43:58 -0500

Why no ticket ever given if you kill a person? Even if accidental?? However TRANSPORT FIREWORKS LOSE VEHICLE signs are everywhere?????? We're talking about killing a man-this person will cease to exist-just like that.

Mike

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 11:32:51 -0500

Derek's Myspace Page http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=83670806 including this quote about his new bike: "But if you'll take a look here, you'll meet my new best friend. I've sworn off the MTA (for my work commute anyway) and invested in some new wheels. This is my hot rod on two wheels. Feel free to click for specs." Very sad indeed.

Kojak

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 11:21:50 -0500

Damn feminists. You all shouldn't be talking. You’re the worst bunch of drivers out there!

Jane Minty

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 11:18:33 -0500

I just don't understand why people get their panties in a bunch over congestion pricing. There are just waaay too many cars in this city (if you want to live in a "car culture," I can show you plenty of other cities). I guess, especially for the boys, it's some kind of macho rite of passage. Don't get me started on metal plates. I can't count the number of calls made to 311 and Con Ed because somone was too lazy to properly secure a plate. Samantha: I too feel like an old lady out here! Duderinoo: thanks for the link - I'm determined to get a speed bump or stop sign on Lorimer and Calyer. As of now, there is a "pedestrian" sign, because those are really, really effective.

hr

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 11:18:25 -0500

losers

p

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 11:11:07 -0500

Lew...I'll stay off the roads on my bike if cars will stay out of the parks.

Christopher Genovese

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 11:08:18 -0500

Derek was my friend. The correct title of his film was Sans Pertinence.

Toby

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 11:02:00 -0500

Those plates really need to be outlawed, as they can be quite dangerous not only to bicyclists but to pedestrians. You would think the technology exists to coat them with some substance that mimicks the road surface. As for cars, there needs to be a congestion tax, as done in London.

Duderinoo

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:59:17 -0500

Samantha - Call your council-person and demand speed bumps! http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/about/faqs_trafcalming.html

matthew

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:57:59 -0500

NYMTC (New York Metropolitan Transportation Council, made up of DOT, City Planning, MTA and a host of other agencies) estimates that our city streets are already 50% OVER capacity during rush hours on weekdays. http://www.nymtc.org/ That's why we have gridlock - too many cars. The business community is getting into the fray as well. The Partnership for NYC estimates that at least $2.5 billion is lost every year to congestion-related issues. From a health standpoint, it's even worse. The EPA rated our air dirtiest in the nation. On average 80% of dirty air comes from mobile sources (cars, trucks, buses, construction, diesel generators, etc.), but in Manhattan that estimate is as high as 96%. Your risk of developing cancer in NYC is at least 2 times the national average for cities in every borough, and 3 times the national average in Manhattan. It's the cars, stupid.

Lew

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:57:06 -0500

If you tools insist on riding bikes - ride them in city parks -otherwise, ride them on the streets at your own risk.

Duderinoo

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:56:14 -0500

Ace - There is an annual fee for owning a car, but it is pretty small. I think it's around $50/year (registration tax), andd you have to pay around 35/year to get it inspected. I agree, though, that it should be a little more (maybe 100-150/year registration tax). There actually is a 25mph limit eveywhere in Manhattan except the FDR and WSH, but you'd never know it. Even cops drive around 50mph down Park Ave. Hopefully the cops will begin enforcing speed limits as well as cell phone usage someday. Wishful thinking I'm sure.

Samantha T

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:55:12 -0500

RIP, Carl and Derek. I've lived in a few U.S. cities (including Boston) and I can say with confidence that I've never seen disregard for pedestrians/cyclists like I've seen here in NYC. I live out in Brooklyn and am like an old lady when I cross the street because I've seen way too many maniacal drivers who aren't neglecting to watch out for pedestrians - they see the pedestrians and just don't give a shit. I don't know what the city needs to change because I don't think the problem has a thing to do with congestion or anything like that - I think it's because there are a lot of callous people in this city.

Kojak

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:51:52 -0500

Make everyone buy a Vespa or Scooter, then Ban cars entirely from NYC. Problem Solved.

Ace

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:51:23 -0500

There are way too many cars in NYC and not just in Manhattan. I say congestion tax, triple the tolls, charge an annual fee for owning a car in the City, and a 15 mph speed limit. There is no need for private cars in New York City.

Duderinoo

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:49:17 -0500

Rockabike - I just looked it up, and I was wrong. It was an NYPD tow truck, so I stand corrected. It makes more sense he didn't receive a ticket, though - cops never like to ticket one of their own.

Bing

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:45:19 -0500

I think a lot of this is just a backlash against a lot of the unsafe bicycling activity we see in the city (running lights, going the wrong way on streets, riding on the sidewalks..etc). While I'd prefer more bikes to cars, I think people just have a lower standard of expectations for cars. Bicyclists, on the other hand, we expect to be more civic minded and respectful of pedestrians, yet too often the case is that they are just as bad as cars. Perhaps not as dangerous, but right up there in obnoxiousness.

realist

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:44:25 -0500

Those metal plates are notoriously slippery, I had a motorcycle and avoided them like the plague. Horrible accident, but riders should obviously a) avoid Houston b) avoid metal plates in the rain.

Duderinoo

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:42:01 -0500

Rockabike - It techically was not an NYPD tow truck that killed Carl Nacht as far as I've heard. It was an independent truck, towing for the NYPD (pretty common since they get paid upfront and NYPD collects the fee/fines). Regardless, it was towing to the NYPD pound, made an illegal yield, and killed the poor guy. The largest injustice is that the driver wasn't even given a ticket despite the fact that the cyclist had the right of way. I hope his family takesthe driver and city to town in civil court.

Kojak

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:42:00 -0500

check it, he was quoting me. Sadly he doesnt know shit about how to tag correctly.

DGS

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:41:03 -0500

Indeed. Rather than throw our hands up in defeat and say "These streets are simply too dangerous for bikes or pedestrians" the DOT should actively improve the safety of dangerous streets like Houston. I mean, okay we get it, three cyclist deaths along Houston Street in a year, these streets are dangerous Commissioner Weinshall. How about, oh I don't know, making them less dangerous? Why does the convenience of drivers take precedence over the health and safety of everyone else? Totally misplaced priorities, and now this poor kid is dead.

Kojak

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:39:50 -0500

"If not a general tax, then just triple the tolls at major entry points (like the ones I've mentioned) to discourage entry during the busiest times of the day and halve the tolls for entry/exit during off hours." I’m up for that Idea.

checkit

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:39:20 -0500

tim, congestion pricing is working in london, a city with a subway and bus system, lots of cars, and lots of pedestrians. it's also reduced traffic with no harm to the economy in cities such as toronto, melbourne, and singapore. perhaps you should get off the computer and out into the world and you would see that congestion pricing, when done right, works.

Duderinoo

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:33:23 -0500

Congestion charges are for cities whose road system cannot handle the traffic it receives. New York does not have that problem, not to the extent London does anyway. Have you ever been anywhere near the Holland Tunnel, GWB or 59th Street practically anytime of the day? If that's not overcrowding.... I would also argue that given the increasing rates of asthma among kids in this city, we are at the stage where we need to force public transportation and cycling on people. If not a general tax, then just triple the tolls at major entry points (like the ones I've mentioned) to discourage entry during the busiest times of the day and halve the tolls for entry/exit during off hours.

Kojak

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:32:48 -0500

Great argument Timothy. You sure did prove my point wrong.

Rockabike

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:31:29 -0500

Please turn your anger into action. Write the DOT and demand protected bike lanes, better conditions for cyclists. Commissioner Iris Weinschall NYC Department of Transportation 40 Worth St. 10th Floor New York, NY 10013 Come out this Thursday to memorialize these fallen cyclists and all others. We will put out Ghost Bikes at the sites where they fell. MEMORIAL RIDE Thursday, June 29, 6:30 p.m. West Side Greenway at 42nd Street (in front of the Intrepid) Carl Nacht, 56, was killed by an NYPD tow truck making a right turn across the West Side Greenway. Derek Lake, 23, was killed on Houston Street while trying to maneuver around a construction site. Come out and remember these two cyclists and help draw attention to unsafe conditions for New York cyclists.

tim

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:29:50 -0500

Congestion charges are for cities whose road system cannot handle the traffic it receives. New York does not have that problem, not to the extent London does anyway. It would be foolish to charge people to drive into the city just to make more room for Bikes and public transport. We’re not up to that stage yet. You are an idiot. Get off the computer, you fail.

Kojak

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:25:09 -0500

l

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:23:47 -0500

Maybe if the police hadn't been so busy arresting bike riders over the past few months they might have had the time to check out the violations at this construction site, which were apparently numerous.

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:22:52 -0500

What exactly are they doing on Houston? Is it a widening or just a repavement?

CLM

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:16:46 -0500

[Quote] This is why we have buses and trains. Too much congestion on city streets for bicycles.[/quote] Lem, why is your response to the fact that we've allowed cars and trucks to take over our public spaces an attack on bikes (and, presumably, on pedestrians - who are killed in crosswalks and on sidewalks dozens of times every year)? A more reasonable response to congestion would be a call for a reduction in motor vehicle traffic - especially since we have such good transit systems that most people simply don't need to drive!

Duderinoo

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:13:59 -0500

This is why we need a congestion tax for cars during the day. Fewer cars, more bicycles and public transportation.

krud

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:13:31 -0500

those metal plates are like sheets of ice...so scary....also they are usually followed by semi-deep holes where the plate meets the street.

Lew

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:10:18 -0500

This is why we have buses and trains. Too much congestion on city streets for bicycles.

smitty

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:05:39 -0500

time to bring back ghost bikes this year.

CLM

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:02:15 -0500

I hope each and every one of the angry posters who took time out of their day yesterday to think of reasons Lake deserved to die will take the time today to write or call the city and demand that roads and sidewalks be made safe for EVERYONE.

pedestrian

Tue, 27 Jun 2006 10:00:42 -0500

Another reason why I'll never ride a bike in this city. It's simply too dangerous.