New School Students Protest McCain at Commencement

Let the flame wars begin:

Um, this was at the New School.
The Ivy league one was a couple days ago and it was outdoors.
Yes, we are elite. and, we want to secede from you yahoos.

it's nice to call anyone an 'armchair *insert whatever*' on an internet message board. and since when does protesting a speaker make you a revolutionary more than just a discontent citizen expressing their beliefs?

btw, McCain has strayed far from being the most liberal republican in congress. you might have wanted to say Senate, and even then that would be high claim), the house has plenty of more actively liberal members.

and even then, when we look things, isn't McCain upholding and encouraging the right of these students to act in such a mannner?

I don't know, it seems like all this vicous commentary is more than a little over-the-top.

I am very proud of my alma mater and it's mission and the students who exercised their rights as AMERICANS (something the right wing posters here don't seem to understand or appreciate for those who disagree with their radical right wing ideology)
I received my B.A. from The New School 2 years ago. Kerrey is an asshole. He is loathed by the majority of the student body and the faculty. He was chosen solely on his predicted ability to make money and he has not done that for the school. The only thing he has done is renovate a 6 million dollar townhouse for himself that belongs to NSU.

That said, The New School is not a good indication of other schools or of the nation in general, because it has to be one of the most progressive, liberal schools in the country.

As for the name calling and ridiculing of the New School's stature, it is childish. Just because you disagrree with NSU's politics, you ridicule their educational standards? Educate YOURSELVES on the mission and founding of NSU. You will then understand why Mccain, the faux liberal GOPer was not welcome.

It's amusing that you think everyone here that thinks McCain should be allowed to speak my be a neocon from the Mountain states. Shows how ignorant you guys really are. For the record I went to an Ivy League school, I am from a blue state, I live in New York City, and I'm not a Republican. On this board that means I'm the only one that can think for himself.

NJWoman, there's no apostrophe in a posessive "its."

PS: I'm a high school dropout and never went to college.

Better hit the books, so glad you responded to the content of my post, instead of picking on the grammer on an internet message board. You must be so much smarter than me! I am devastated. I am going to try to make as many mistakes as possible in this post so you can feel superior to someone on an anon. message board! Do you feel better now?
As for the idiot who thinks RICH kids go to NSU? Are you kidding me? My entire class is about 30K in debt. (not me, I, of course, received multiple scholarships that better hit the books should have received, but did not).
NSU is not an Ivy, it is not elite, it is not full of trust fund babies. It is filled with progressive, liberal, open minded individuals who wanted someone who was representative of their values to speak at the graduation.
And as for the idiot (actually both opinions were from EE), stop reading free republic.com to gauge opinions of MOST americans. Most americans are anti woman (against abortion) and bigoted (anti gay marriage) like You are.
Since when did this site become such a hotbed of anti gay, anti liberal hatred for right wing fundies?

and yes, i meant to say "choice" instead of "chose" that first time around.

McCain blasted Jerry Falwell but was treated with respect by the people at Liberty University. And liberals speak at graduation ceremonies all the time without being heckled.

I guess conservatives are just more tolerant and open minded than those noisy dopes on the left.

Exactly. Similarly, before 2004 elections, if you had Bush bumper sticker in Boston, your car was vandalized by those open-minded liberals. If you had Kerry sticker in Texas you didn't had any problems. Conservatives are clearly more tolerant (and yes, they will listen politely in similar events even if they do not agree on everything).

BTW, majority of americans are against gay marriage. This is a political issue which reasonable people can disagree but it seems NSU liberals do not tolerate any dissent. "You are with us or you are the enemy".

When asked whether they thought same-sex "marriages" should be recognized by the law as valid and come with the same rights as traditional marriages, 68 percent of the respondents in the CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll said they should not.

Ok, NSU kids do not tolerate the 68% of americans. I'm sure the rest of the population has other wrong opinions too (say, support for Iraqi freedom) so NSU liberals can tolerate maybe 10% of US population.

You are so open-minded! You respect the opinions of other people..Wait, that would make you a conservative.

You must be so proud of yourself.

Actually ee, the majority of people that admit to being homophobic assholes is getting less and less in this country and most pollsters will tell you that. I guess people like EE still think you have to be a RAGING liberal to believe in civil rights for everyone, including those who are GLBT. I assume, ee, you don't GLBT people should have the right to vote either, right? But they should pay taxes, of course.
And by the way, ee, whether or not I should be able to marry the woman I love is NOT a political issue. It is ONLY a political issue in the minds of close minded, homophobic, religious nuts who seem to think my mariage will somehow threaten their marriage. Maybe the 50% hetero divorce rate is something ee and the other fundies should go after, not GLBT people who want to commit to their loved ones.

ee - conservatives respect other people? As long as they are not gay, liberal, muslim, mexican, etc...

not GLBT people who want to commit to their loved ones.

They are free to do it but a marriage is a different issue. Gay marriage and group marriage should be decided by the people, not by some Clinton-appointed activist judge. Try to understand it: Majority oppose it so in effect, you do not tolerate the 70% of americans. And you call yourself open-minded? Usually people learn that they must respect even those who have different opinions (yes, even those 70% of americans who share McCain's opinions).

The above post is the fucking dumbest thing I have ever had the displeasure of reading.

To tell the truth, I never really heard of The New School. So, I most certainly wouldn't classify it as an elite institution. I think that many people here are misreading why these students were angry.

I doubt that the sole motivation for their anger is mere ideological disagreement. I am certain, that if the New School is like any other reputable university that its students receive a full and diverse education, where their views are properly scrutinized for logical and factual content, that the students are regularly required to engage in socratic self-examination, that they are required when writing papers, essays and theses to give full faith and credit to opposing and potentially opposing arguments, they probably regularly attend guest lectures and events in which a multiplicity of views are shared and a diverse set of popular and political personalities share their views. Their is no reason to believe that the students at the New School are particularly hostile to opposing views. They, in all likelyhood, have been taught to respect the university as a marketplace of ideas.

However, this was neither a classroom lecture or discussion nor was it a guest speaker lecture series. This was a commencement ceremony. As such, it is a celebration, not merely of the accomplishments of graduating seniors for the previous four or five years, but of shared common values that drew them to a university that bills itself as a "legendary, progressive university." There is nothing in the school's code of conduct that insinuates that there is any ideological test for admissions or continued attendance at the university. This is in contrast with religious institutions like Liberty University where you can be expelled for expressing views contrary to the admistration's. So, it is fair to presume that there are some Republicans who attend the school. However, in the school's introduction of itself to students it does bill itself as a university that embodies certain ideals and principles. As such, a commencement celebration should embrace and celebrate those ideals. The university adminstration should not smack it students in the faces during this once in a lifetime event. Jerry Falwell would never subject his students at Liberty University with an atheistic speaker at their commencement celebration. Why, then, would Bob Kerrey do exactly the same to his graduating seniors?

Perhaps, in 2000, students at the New School would not have been offended at listening to McCain speak at their commencement celebration. In 2000, McCain was a maverick. He dared, at his own political risk, take on the powers that be in his own party. Back in 2000, I respected McCain as a man with whom I disagreed, but disagreed honesly with. However, John McCain, politically wisened by age, in 2006 is not the John McCain of 2000. He's made a shrewd political move to the right. He's embraced Jerry Falwell, a man he once called an "agent of intolerance." He supports an imperialistic and hegemonic premeptive war that offends the very nature of the progressive. He has gone from maverick to party insider and apologizer.

While his newfound right wing views may, indeed, have enough intellectual foundation to be presented for scrutiny at The New School, they have no place at this celebration of these students' shared values.

A multiple term Senator who's been a prisoner of war while serving his country overseas

First, since when did Republicans give a damned about one's heroic military service? Max Cleland, John Kerry?

Secondly, while John McCain was an extraordinarily courageous serviceman in his youth, and deserves to be lauded even after his death, because of his courageous behavior, no ammount of courage in youth exculpates him from political cowardice in old age. The two are not related.

As for the rest of that drivel, I am not impressed with those of you who laud your so-called neutral, apolitical stances as somehow noble and worthy of consideration. You mistake your ambivalence for conviction. I find it worthless.

"Be thy either hot or cold, but if you be lukewarm, I will vomit you from my mouth." --- Jesus Christ

"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice; moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." --- Barry Goldwater

would the u of texas have hilary clinton at their commencement ceremony without protesters? puleeze. while you can argue ad nauseum about right vs left with your ever popular modicum of sense, the issue is do students have the right to protest their commencement ceremony? yes (and you can still disagree and dislike them and fault them and blahtyblah wake me up when your rant is over, OR is your answer no, i am a superior voice who should be heard and liberals should never open their mouth not even in their own back yard?). vinny, man, you clearly have a lot of anger towards those you disagree with. and i hope you're enjoying your weekend, it was liberals who fought for the right to a five day work week.

Fred Phelps, the Kansas Preacher you mention, is a complete looney and has about a dozen followers, mostly his own family. He's the reason state legistatures --Republican- as well as Democrat-controlled-- across the country are taking up laws restricting protests at funerals. To claim he is representative of conservatives is dishonest.

On another subject, where did this myth arise that John McCain was once somehow moderate? He's always been an extreme conservative. In 2000 he was a self-styled "maverick", but where did that get him? He didn't have the wide, or deep, support of South Carolina Republicans. As a result they didn't come to his rescue when the Bush-Rove smear campaign began and McCain lost.

For 2008 he is doing the wise thing --appealing to his base, conservative Republicans, in order to strengthen support for his presidential run. Why is this very basic and obvious political tact lost on people?

As for McCain---he received worse treatment from the Bush Camp during the primaries and look how he forgot about that so suddenly. He'll get over it if he already has'nt.

Yeh, it isn't like these protesters at the New School were spreading rumors that McCain had an illegitimate black baby or started any whisper campaigns suggesting that McCain might be some sort of Manchurian candidate too stressed out by PTSD to properly fill his would-be role as commander-in-chief.

In their protests, the students at the New School simply called a spade a spade.

If you were at the New School graduation, let us know what the tone was like (boos? yelling? annoyed looks from Bob Kerrey?).

I was at the ceremony on Friday, my girlfriend received her master's degree in International Affairs and I attended with her parents. As has been reported in the New York Times, the tone was oppositional. I would say approximately 30-50 students (and a handful of non-students – I don’t know what percentage of the protesters were professors) stood with their backs turned to McCain during his speech; most of these held orange signs reading either “McCain does not speak for me,” or “Our commencement is not your platform.” The majority of these students stood silently, and I saw two large signs being held, though I couldn’t read them. About halfway through McCain’s speech the heckling became more obvious. I believe that most of the hecklers were sitting and not holding signs. Sections of the audience also voiced their displeasure at the length of the speech. Some members of the audience also sided with McCain, particularly when his speech mentioned the theme of his own “arrogance of youth;” there was loud applause at these moments that seemed aimed against the protesters. Also, several audience members (students and non-students) were yelling at the protesters. My girlfriend told me that two students in her program where screaming at standing protesters. My girlfriend told me that her understanding was that the screamers did not agree with McCain but thought that the protests were disrespectful. She also mentioned that she heard (but did not see) that security guards at the MSG theater were confiscating the orange pieces of paper that other students were handing out to the graduates as they walked in procession to the theater.

There were two student speakers at the event; each, in their own way, voiced their displeasure at McCain’s invitation to speak. The first student speaker was more direct and received a large and loud standing ovation following her speech, which preceded McCain’s. More than half of the students (perhaps 70%) stood to applaud her speech.

McCain did not appear to be shaken too badly by the protesting, though he stopped and stammered more than a couple of times following particularly loud booing or loud response to some of the heckling.

Actually, they surely would have allowed her to talk without heckling. They would never vote for her but it is polite to listen people like her in events like this. This is something people usually learn from their mothers.

You see this is nonsense. Texas is a bad comparison because the university is public university which doesn't proclaim to hold any particular set of values that it uses to recruit its students. A better example would be to compare how a commencement audience at Liberty University may react to being subjected to the views of an atheist during such an occassion. Or how might a BYU commencement audience respond if an anti-Mormon speaker was invited to their ceremonies?

The fact is, the New School has been host to conservatives for guest lecture appearances without any such demonstrations. In 2003, the New School hosted and appearance by Paul Wolfowitz, who is far more conservative than McCain. There were no disruptions.

In 2001, Hillary Clinton's invitation to speak at Yale's commencement ceremony provoked conservative student's to protest during the commencement.

In 2003, an anti-war activist, Chris Hedges, was booed and had his mic unplugged by conservative students at Rockford College's commencement ceremonies. There are precedents for conservative protests against liberal speakers during commencement ceremonies. This is nothing new.

intolerant fanatic gay mothers? anyone who reads this thread can see just where the hate and intolerance lay.

the u of t wasn't the best example, and thanks robert for pointing out better.

students, conservative/liberal/whatever, have every right to protest their commencement speeches. Paul Wolfowitz did not appear at the commencement ceremony, but in an academic forum whose premise is an open exchange of ideas- which is why he spoke uninterrupted. a graduation ceremony is different.

i usually avoid political topics that have lots of flaming going on because i find it so disheartening. posters like robert can be level headed and talk calmly about facts and points of view and then others talk about intolerant gay mothers and you are everything that's wrong with this country etc etc. how do you prejudiced people live in one of the most diverse cities in one of the most diverse countries and wake up and go to bed so angry at people different than you? or do you live in staten island? (just kidding, i love s.i.)

And according to a recent gallup poll, Democrats and Independents share similiar support for gay marriage, while Republicans are extremely opposed:

Democrats are nearly three times as likely as Republicans (53% vs. 19%) to say homosexual marriages should be legally valid, while independents fall closer to Democrats (45%).

Clearly, Republican homophobia is driving down support for gay marriage. The mainstream view is to give relative support for gay marriage.

I'm a current grad student at the new school. McCain was forced on the school by Kerrey, probably to get each some free publicity. The New School has gotten a ton of free advertising, and McCain gets to play the martyr to his newfound rightwing base. So both Kerrey and McCain got what they wanted. But the students, the graduates, didn't. They wanted a day of celebration of their achievements, not to have to face a man who has come to support everything that the overwhelming majority of those students find wrong in the world. I'm proud of my schoolmates for responding in kind to this provocation, though I find it sad that it has benefitted McCain, and that so many on the right are so ignorant as to fall for this kind of manipulation.

your numbers and stats and percentages are interesting, but irrelevant. the matter of civil rights is NOT A MATTER OF POPULAR VOTE. that is why all the ballot measures that were passed in 2004 against gay marriage will be overturned in the courts. (maybe ten years from now, but eventually they will declared unconstitutional.)

it is simply not true that "marriage should be decided by the people." constitutional issues are not settled by popular vote--they are settled ultimately by the supreme court of the US.

if you think a majority vote of any set of people should determine who gets what rights, then you are not knowledgeable or supportive of the US Constitution.

go read a history book! i have to get back to work.

ok, so i just have to add my two cents:

i went to northwestern, and mccain was our graduation speaker a year ago. he was perhaps the worst graduation speaker i have ever had to sit through.

it's not his political point of view that made the experience so horrible (n.b.: i don't agree with his politics, but even students who did hated the speech) but rather that he used his hour-and-some-odd speech as a way to preach his political platform rather than imparting any kind of wisdom (or, heaven forbid, a little humor) to us soon-to-be graduates.

he phrased his speech, which concerned human rights, in such a way that he made it seem that if you disagreed with his political platform (in its entirety) then you were anti-human rights. i commend his speechwriters, as it was an amazing example of the power of propaganda and fucked-up logic.

to address all of the people who think that the demonstrations at the new school show the "intolerence of the left" while reverential silence of the right shows respect, think about what you're saying here.

who the hell are conservatives to judge anyone on the issue of tolerence?

secondly, i fear for any country whose people (even the smallest percentage) favors sheep-like passivity rather than active participation in their democracy.

i commend the new school students for standing up for what they believe in.

You know what, this is ridiculously long. I'm going to stop now.

Yeh, sweetheart, you should've stopped a long time ago. No one thinks you are a homophobe for thinking homosexual behavior is immoral. Indeed, I encourage you to maintain that position and demonstrate your loyalty to it by abstaining from homosexual behavior. Got it? It's called free choice.

However, the instant that you attempt, in any way, to keep ME from engaging in homosexual behavior, is the instant I will label you a tyrant and a bigot. Spades are spades, know what I mean?