May 17, 2006
Williamsburg Hipsters Vs. Park Slope Yuppies
Forget arguing over whether uptown or downtown Manhattan is better - the new fighting is about what's better, Williamsburg or Park Slope. There's a hilarious Observer article about the psychological divide between residents of hipper, edgier enclaves like Williamsburg and Greenpoint and those of Park Slope, Carroll Gardens, and Boerum Hill. Yes, hipsters may lives in South (Gentrified) Brooklyn and yuppies may have condos in North (Gentrified) Brooklyn, but that doesn't matter - it's all about the state of mind - and a state of dress and other stuff. You're vintage-clothes wearing, kickball-playing, getting-drunk-all-the-time, crunchier liberal arts shools-graduates if you live in Williamsburg, you're a stroller-pushing, contemporary-literary-fiction-reading, $200-jean-wearing, Ivy League graduate if you live in Park Slope. It all makes so much sense now! Maybe if the G train ran better, maybe there wouldn't be such hostility. But we can't wait for the remake of the Warriors, where it'll be a gang running from the cooler-than-thou types in one nabe into the young-settled-couples in another.
Of course, the first quote in the article was the best:
John Flansburgh, of the band They Might Be Giants, was on the phone. “I have mixed emotions about ‘fabulous’ Williamsburg,” said Mr. Flansburgh, 47, who has lived in that neighborhood for over 20 years, watching as bars and boutiques began to choke Bedford Ave. “It’s quickly becoming a life-size replica of St. Marks Place, and honestly, I’ve never wanted to live on St. Marks Place.”Double diss!
If you had your druthers, would you live in a Williamsburg or Park Slope? Or is it time to head to Queens?
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It's always a good time to head to Queens.
Sadly a lot of them are already in Queens, mostly in the Astoria and the Forest Hills section. And it’s getting worse as they spread beyond those neighborhoods.
They take over entire neighborhoods, and we fall back. They turn nice parts of NY into hipster locations and gay up local establishments, and we fall back…
The Line must be drawn HERE! This far and no further!
Bed-Stuy! I'm sure that living within three blocks of Marcy Projects will keep both hipsters and 500 dollar strollers at bay.
i hate new york city now. i was in a bar with my friend last night and i encountered one guy with blazer tie and emo haircut looking like he was about to cry a river, and another one with bleach blond hair with a short up to his nipples basically...who are these people and why are they in my city?
F THE HIPSTER MOVEMENT!
John F. is a demi-god and holy cow I can't believe he's 47 years old already. Anyway, whatever John F. has spoketh, thou shall obeyeth.
Why do people find these silly, over-generalized articles so entertaining? Honestly, there seems to be a new one every week. In my opinion, pieces of this type are just annoying and represent nothing further from the truth of the situation. Actually, I aways feel a bit embarassed for the authors who see it fit to plug stereotypes into their writing because it is easy. Do some real work and write an interesting article, rather than an inflamatory one.
There should be another group involved: original pre-gentrification residents of the nabes invaded first by the hipsters then by the yuppies. I say kick out the hipsters/yuppies and the OGs stay!
I live in the W Village so no battle here. Except on the weekends when Hoboken infiltrates. Although we give up our neighborhood then and focus on the interiors of our small apartments and the fabulous local delivery service.
You said fabulous! Your either Gay or ... your one of THEM!
'hipsters' in forest hills? haha Theres some fine women buyin clothes Austin Street tho.
'hipsters' in forest hills? haha Theres some fine women buyin clothes on Austin Street tho.
Pretty soon Brooklyn is just going to become one huge bad pretentious band! Then maybe they'll all go away on tour.
Kojak means "Astoria and LIC." The college grads can't afford Forest Hills, it's not chic enough for the hipsters and yuppies would find the demographic too old. This is the place that Johnny Ramone fought so desperately to get away from, after all.
But then, Kojak doesn't know sh!t from shinola anyway.
i think hipsters and yuppies are pretty much one in the same at this point.
p.s. park slope forever
NO SLEEP TILL BOERUM!!! NO SLEEP TILL BOERUM!!!
I moved to what is now called "East Williamsburg" to have a decent commute and get away from hipster-central. I'm just glad that with this gentrification, we finally have a Dunkin' D's for my morning coffee!
Ehh, no one is above anything here. One always becomes what one hates. Personally, the structure of greenpoint and w'burg, as well as the parking, is better than the slope. But being so close to the park in the slope is awesome.
But jesus - the F train? Shittiest train ever, next to the R.
All in all, tho, New York is filling up with wack people.
Eat me ethos. Ive seen hipsters in Forest Hills before. They exist!
Theres just a larger population who lives there who think they live on 5th Avenue.
Since I moved to Brooklyn from Manhattan a few years ago, I couldn't afford anything in an actual neighborhood. I'm always living in these fringe places that aren't anything. I'd say I lived in Park Slope and someone would take offense and say, "That's NOT Park Slope!" Then the next time I'd say Sunset Park and someone would take offense to that, for completely opposite reasons. Too much is made of all this. I just want a nice apartment and have a decent commute to work.
http://flickr.com/photos/e-liz/126221320/in/set-72057594103353163/
Cobble Hiller for approx. 6 yrs. I am an ivy league grad and I do read contemporary fiction, but I do not have a stroller or $200 pair of jeans. I rent a very modest apartment. I love the 'hood because I think it's still fairly diverse, not to mention beautiful (the trees! the brownstones!) and still quirky in many ways, despite the numerous fancy restaurants. I have great conversations with neighbors all the time.
Naruto, you can't spell; "your"... stupid.
Stay in Queens. My beautiful girlfriend would prefer it that way.
FIRST WORLD PROBLEMS
"All in all, tho, New York is filling up with wack people."
Don't you think that people have been saying something like this ever since New York became THE American city? Wack people are showing up everywhere all the time, I bet there are people in Berkeley, Portland, Seattle, Oakland, Chicago, Philly, etc, etc, saying the same thing. People in Berkeley want to move to Brooklyn. People in Chicago want to move to Austin. blah, blah, blah.
You know though, Nathan, it's getting to the point where if I meet new people who ask me where I'm from and I respond that I'm a native NYer (by way of Queens, SI, and Manhattan), they look at me kind of funny.
Maybe I'm just going to the wrong parties or something...
The parents money that these yupsters have flooded these neighborhoods with has created physical development and community improvements which will provide infrastructure for real NYers for decades after they move back to Ohio... not to mention these hoods and NYC in general is as SAFE as its been in 30 yrs.
I've lived QNS my whole life and love seeing my current hood [Sunnyside] accept an influx of young professional residents, new businesses, etc.
Just let people live, and enjoy the best period in recent NYC history
Hah I'm sorry Kenny G for my incorrect spelling.
YOUR girlfriend is beautiful? Says who? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so you THINK she’s beautiful, but she could very well be Butt Ugly and have a cooch like a catcher's mitt.
Just a small taste of reality for ya. Enjoy!
Naruto: You said your. Your either 7 or ... you're not very bright.
Honestly, if you don't like living in NY, then just go away, people. Move to New Jersey or Connecticut. Hell, move to Maine for all I care. There's a housing shortage anyway.
Also, what Chris said is true; we have no problem finding parking in Greenpoint. I love where I live. I like Park Slope as well. But it's just seems too crowded. It's also near Flatbush avenue and Flatbush avenue scares me.
Nathan - you're right. I think I have something uniquely american about wanting to be the first to everything. All of my desires are naught.
I’m sorry mihow, your completely correct. I shall defer to your judgment, being so wise and all. Your so smart.
Most of my friends live in Park Slope and none of them wear $200 jeans, or even $100 jeans. Nor are any of them Ivy grads. Park Slope has some yuppies and pretentious crunchy people, but it's mostly down to earth people doing their own thing.
Williamsburg, on the other hand, is majority hipsters, who try way too consciously to impress each other with their wacky fashion sense and arrogant pseudo-disaffectedness. Williamsburg is awful.
I live in Prospect Heights, which is close enough to Park Slope to enjoy the bars and the park, and far enough from Williamsburg that you don't have to shake your head in disgust at ridiculous fauxhawks or rhinestone-studded belts on a daily basis.
First of all, the battle is hilarious, having "pride" in your place of residence is actually a good thing. These are the people that have respect for the streets and don't go throwing the cheetos bags on the streets like some of the pre-gentrification crowds. Secondly, as a 'Burg resident, I've flirted with the idea of The Slope but it's so far away from Manhattan, it takes like 1,000 years to ride the train and the trains are not dependable. We may have the shitty L train, but it's only one stop away and no one ever pays attention to the lonely, stinky JMZ.
This in-fighting is hilarious. While the fashionable Brooklyn neighborhoods duke it out, it won't change the fact that the new hipsters and yuppies only live there because of the proximity to the City.
They're trying to "Manhattanify" Brooklyn, which is lame. Brooklyn already had its own rich, vibrant culture. If you want Brooklyn, take Brooklyn for how it is, for fucks sake! These "Manhattan-Lite" neighborhoods are pale imitations of the City, are slower-paced and more laid-back. They feel like Portland. They don't feel like the City OR Brooklyn.
This is probably why people from the City secretly think "Ohhhhhh" when they learn someone lives in a fashionable Brooklyn neighborhood such as Williamsburg or Park Slope.
Kevin G: with all due respect, you couldn't pay me to live in the W Village, if only because of the fact that there's a LINE halfway down the block every weekend for a certain subpar bakery (why?!). I was visiting a friend recently, and almost accidentally plowed a woman who appeared in front of me TAKING PICTURES of her friends in line. I know there are many annoying landmarks in my area, but that "takes the cake," so to speak (don't even get me started on the TV tour bus I once saw dropping a gaggle of women in front of the place).
And Nathan is totally right on about wackness through the ages..I live in Greenpoint, and often chat with the old lady in the building who was raised a few streets down. She was actually on a water ballet team at the old McCarren Pool, and talks about how the place "went downhill" after "certain" groups of people moved in during the 50s. I'm not going to comment on the nature of her complaint, but it goes to show that no one ever truly owns a neighborhood, and may inevitably not be pleased with the next wave of occupants.
This July will mark my 12th year (yay me!), so I can see both sides of the neighborhood battles. What's the point, though? I've lived all across the country, and this happens in pretty much every every metropolitan area. If you never want your neighborhood to change, I can gladly direct you to a few small towns in the center of the country.
Uhhh park slope has been doing it since around the time I was a kid: the 80s.
Williamsburg might be more hip now, it is fresh, new, edgy...
But dont confuse that with any kind of all time merit.
Park slope is the timeless classic. They make films about it now.
R2K
Thank you, Jane Minty. I couldn't have said it better myself.
And Burg-what, it really depends on where you live in the slope. If you're close enough to the Atlantic-Pacific stop or the Bergen stop, the N, D, B, and Q trains are only 1-3 stops from chinatown. Besides, williamsburg may be close to the east village, but not everyone wants to be in the east villiage. I'll take my proximity to the 2,3,4,5,N,R,Q,D,B,M,G,F,A and C lines over the L,G,J,M,Z any day of the week.
They turn nice parts of NY into hipster locations
[2] Posted by: Kojak | May 17, 2006 10:39 AM
"Nice" parts like Williamsburg?
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F THE HIPSTER MOVEMENT!
[4] Posted by: C | May 17, 2006 10:53 AM
It's a movement?
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There should be another group involved: original pre-gentrification residents of the nabes invaded first by the hipsters then by the yuppies. I say kick out the hipsters/yuppies and the OGs stay!
[7] Posted by: Vic | May 17, 2006 10:55 AM
The Indians?
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It's also near Flatbush avenue and Flatbush avenue scares me.
[28] Posted by: mihow | May 17, 2006 11:42 AM
Huh?!
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The Slope but it's so far away from Manhattan, it takes like 1,000 years to ride the train and the trains are not dependable.
[32] Posted by: burg-what? | May 17, 2006 11:50 AM
W4 to 7th Av. about 15 min. train time. (I don't live in Pk Slope, so don't try to peg me as a chauvinist.)
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Final Note: Williamsburg does have too many shiny things and too many new buildings.
people have failed to mention that williamsburg is ugly as sin
i lived in Greenpoint for 2 years and felt liberated when i moved to Cobble Hill (where i stayed for 3 years). there are definitely more strollers and literary types in Cobble Hill but also a nice relaxed vibe. Greenpoint has its charm, but it is so inconvenient and i find williamsburg a little exhausting, like a constant party.
blah blah blah. I lived in both. They both have whatever hipsters are; they both have yuppies.
Bushwick is ugly, I do know this for sure.
"Maybe if the G train ran better, maybe there wouldn't be such hostility."
ha ha! i live in the middle (clinton hill), and i would say that my sensibilities lie somewhere between the two nutshell descriptions above. to decide between north and south brooklyn is tough, i like them both, especially toward their extremeties (greenpoint and red hook). however, i'm not a big fan of park slope, and have always considered that part of brooklyn to be somewhat seperate from "south" brooklyn.
This is like watching the Special Olympics.
I lived in both as well. The edge of Williamsburg/Greenpoint and now in Cobble hill. The first one was of full "hipper than thou" young kids who were experimenting with daddy trust funds, coke and heroin. Cobble Hill has too many strollers but is altogether a fine, livable neighborhood that doesnt take "being hip" so seriously. Wiliamsburg is kind of annoying with all that attitude, and dirty streets. For a visual artist its probably more intresting as the Park Slope/Cobble Hill area is more interesting for a writer (quieter).
Sure, I'd also take the convenience of the 2,3,4,5,a,c,b,d,n,q,w trains if it didn't cost just as much to live in the North Slope as it does in Manhattan. Living off the L,G, and JMZ is far superior to the "quaintness" of lesbian strollers and bars that close at 2 AM.
Ivy League grad? - yes
Drink beer often? - yes
Wear $200 jeans? - no (last time I wore jeans was 7 years ago)
Push strollers? - no babymamas that I know of
Read c.lit fiction? - maybe (Neal Stephenson)
North or South? - North (Greenpoint)
Which box do I fit into? I need to know in order to continue living!!
Another pointless "story" that fails to take note of the true driver of neighborhood change, which is demographic pressure. The Satmar Hassidim who live in South Williamsburg, and whom you have chosen to ignore in this article (just as you ignored all people of color to make your thesis fit), have an average of 8 - 10 children per women, according to the New York Times. These people choose to live in contiguous zones, so that they can make proper use of their communal institutions without violating the sabbath. In a generation or so, they, or the immigrants who are settling this land in record numbers, will have mooted this discussion of white hipstes and yuppies and where they live. Hipsters and Yuppies are mere placeholders in the drama of contemporary American life. Once the time comes for them to move on, they will be.
hipster or yuppies? I don't care as long as it ain't blacks or latinos. I almost got mugged by a black guy the other day and some latino guys stole my bike. Goddamn them!!! I'm all for not stereotyping if black people stop trying to rob me. Please! stop trying to rob me.
hey mihow, what does Brooklyn and women's undies have in common?
Flatbush!
lol kudos yoqueens
Don't you just love the Manhattanites who are soooo snobbish about "not crossing bridges"? As if they didn't cross any bridges to get here from Cleveland, or wherever they came from before they became New Yorkers! I've been in Park Slope for nine years now (Harlem, before that) and It's still a great neighborhood!
w'burg was cool a while ago, or was at least better than park slope. now, aside from gimme!, wburg has lost it, p slope never had it, and bed-stuy is where the moms, hipsters, and yuppies all belong--marcy would straighten them out.
naruto, learn english. you're stupid.
The only people who use the term "hipster," regardless of the context, are hipsters themselves. Trying talking about hipsters to non-hipsters, they will have no clue what you're talking about.
actually I was one of those guys that wouln't cross bridges for 25 years until my friend came to visit NYC and we walked over the brooklyn bridge and into cobble hill. Cobble hill is pretty awesome. too bad cobble hill and park slope are the only decent places to live in Brooklyn. Clinton Hill is almost liveable and williamsburg is like the LES-crap!
Man, everytime I go to flatbush ave or bed-stuy brooklyn i have to leave my wallet at home, smear shoe polish over my face and take a huge dump in my pants. this deters the residents from mugging me.
who cares about any of this? do any of these places have a 212 area code? No? okayyy. . .
I mean, wha?? these places aren't important. Get back to me when they attach Brooklyn to Manhattan and we all share the same proximity and AREA CODE for chrissakes
The only people who use the term "hipster," regardless of the context, are hipsters themselves. Trying talking about hipsters to non-hipsters, they will have no clue what you're talking about.
Sonny, keep that up and you'll cause the whole universe to implode!
Long-time Willysbrg residents must step outside each day, look around, and think to themselves, "When did the circus come to town?"
I'm sorry, but no one's said this yet:
who gives a shit?
if your apartment's okay by you, and you've got the amenities and services you need...wburg, slope, fucking canarsie -- who cares? it's like some people have to actually work to find something to puff up their own egos about.
"i live in the slope." well, so do i, but i don't gloat about that shit. please.
Does OG now mean Origianl Gentrifier?
"New Yorkers"* crack me up.
How do people let the location of their apartment define them? It's really one of the worst things about New York.
Someone commented before about Hoboken invading the West Village on the weekends, I just moved from the West Village to Hoboken. Does that inherently change my being? You people are crazy.
* When I say "New Yorkers" I mean people that aren't from this area but think they are the epitome of NY
Are you people really that new to this area? I'm sure people complained back in the 80s and mid 90s about the East Village set, and in the 60s and 70s about the Soho crowd.
There will always be weirdo kids here - whether authentic and struggling or rich and bored. The only thing that's changed is 1) the geography and 2) the strange fact that NYC is the city of the moment, like Seattle or LA in the 90s.
I live in Williamsburg. It is ugly, but my friends live nearby and I have cheap rent. Hipsters aren't bad people, if you think they care how you dress or what music you are listening to, they don't.
I vote for Spanish Harlem! Then again I have been up there for over three years. Sad, but true, it too has been discovered by hipsters and fashion forward Japanese women ... the high concentration of housing projects has yet to detract anyone.
wow, this has rea