New NY State License Plate Revealed—And Required On All Cars
Access-A-Ride Renders Bike Lane Inaccessible
Cops: Fort Greene Violence Sparked By Chicken Wing Promotion
The UWS Gets Its Very Own Apple Store
64 Things Restaurant Patrons Must NEVER Do
Forget arguing over whether uptown or downtown Manhattan is better - the new fighting is about what's better, Williamsburg or Park Slope. There's a hilarious Observer article about the psychological divide between residents of hipper, edgier enclaves like Williamsburg and Greenpoint and those of Park Slope, Carroll Gardens, and Boerum Hill. Yes, hipsters may lives in South (Gentrified) Brooklyn and yuppies may have condos in North (Gentrified) Brooklyn, but that doesn't matter - it's all about the state of mind - and a state of dress and other stuff. You're vintage-clothes wearing, kickball-playing, getting-drunk-all-the-time, crunchier liberal arts shools-graduates if you live in Williamsburg, you're a stroller-pushing, contemporary-literary-fiction-reading, $200-jean-wearing, Ivy League graduate if you live in Park Slope. It all makes so much sense now! Maybe if the G train ran better, maybe there wouldn't be such hostility. But we can't wait for the remake of the Warriors, where it'll be a gang running from the cooler-than-thou types in one nabe into the young-settled-couples in another.
Of course, the first quote in the article was the best:
John Flansburgh, of the band They Might Be Giants, was on the phone. “I have mixed emotions about ‘fabulous’ Williamsburg,” said Mr. Flansburgh, 47, who has lived in that neighborhood for over 20 years, watching as bars and boutiques began to choke Bedford Ave. “It’s quickly becoming a life-size replica of St. Marks Place, and honestly, I’ve never wanted to live on St. Marks Place.”Double diss!
If you had your druthers, would you live in a Williamsburg or Park Slope? Or is it time to head to Queens?
add to stumble upon
add to reddit
tweet this
post to facebook
It's always a good time to head to Queens.
Sadly a lot of them are already in Queens, mostly in the Astoria and the Forest Hills section. And it’s getting worse as they spread beyond those neighborhoods.
They take over entire neighborhoods, and we fall back. They turn nice parts of NY into hipster locations and gay up local establishments, and we fall back…
The Line must be drawn HERE! This far and no further!
Bed-Stuy! I'm sure that living within three blocks of Marcy Projects will keep both hipsters and 500 dollar strollers at bay.
i hate new york city now. i was in a bar with my friend last night and i encountered one guy with blazer tie and emo haircut looking like he was about to cry a river, and another one with bleach blond hair with a short up to his nipples basically...who are these people and why are they in my city?
F THE HIPSTER MOVEMENT!
John F. is a demi-god and holy cow I can't believe he's 47 years old already. Anyway, whatever John F. has spoketh, thou shall obeyeth.
Why do people find these silly, over-generalized articles so entertaining? Honestly, there seems to be a new one every week. In my opinion, pieces of this type are just annoying and represent nothing further from the truth of the situation. Actually, I aways feel a bit embarassed for the authors who see it fit to plug stereotypes into their writing because it is easy. Do some real work and write an interesting article, rather than an inflamatory one.
There should be another group involved: original pre-gentrification residents of the nabes invaded first by the hipsters then by the yuppies. I say kick out the hipsters/yuppies and the OGs stay!
I live in the W Village so no battle here. Except on the weekends when Hoboken infiltrates. Although we give up our neighborhood then and focus on the interiors of our small apartments and the fabulous local delivery service.
You said fabulous! Your either Gay or ... your one of THEM!
'hipsters' in forest hills? haha Theres some fine women buyin clothes Austin Street tho.
'hipsters' in forest hills? haha Theres some fine women buyin clothes on Austin Street tho.
Pretty soon Brooklyn is just going to become one huge bad pretentious band! Then maybe they'll all go away on tour.
Kojak means "Astoria and LIC." The college grads can't afford Forest Hills, it's not chic enough for the hipsters and yuppies would find the demographic too old. This is the place that Johnny Ramone fought so desperately to get away from, after all.
But then, Kojak doesn't know sh!t from shinola anyway.
i think hipsters and yuppies are pretty much one in the same at this point.
p.s. park slope forever
NO SLEEP TILL BOERUM!!! NO SLEEP TILL BOERUM!!!
I moved to what is now called "East Williamsburg" to have a decent commute and get away from hipster-central. I'm just glad that with this gentrification, we finally have a Dunkin' D's for my morning coffee!
Ehh, no one is above anything here. One always becomes what one hates. Personally, the structure of greenpoint and w'burg, as well as the parking, is better than the slope. But being so close to the park in the slope is awesome.
But jesus - the F train? Shittiest train ever, next to the R.
All in all, tho, New York is filling up with wack people.
Eat me ethos. Ive seen hipsters in Forest Hills before. They exist!
Theres just a larger population who lives there who think they live on 5th Avenue.
Since I moved to Brooklyn from Manhattan a few years ago, I couldn't afford anything in an actual neighborhood. I'm always living in these fringe places that aren't anything. I'd say I lived in Park Slope and someone would take offense and say, "That's NOT Park Slope!" Then the next time I'd say Sunset Park and someone would take offense to that, for completely opposite reasons. Too much is made of all this. I just want a nice apartment and have a decent commute to work.
http://flickr.com/photos/e-liz/126221320/in/set-72057594103353163/
Cobble Hiller for approx. 6 yrs. I am an ivy league grad and I do read contemporary fiction, but I do not have a stroller or $200 pair of jeans. I rent a very modest apartment. I love the 'hood because I think it's still fairly diverse, not to mention beautiful (the trees! the brownstones!) and still quirky in many ways, despite the numerous fancy restaurants. I have great conversations with neighbors all the time.
Naruto, you can't spell; "your"... stupid.
Stay in Queens. My beautiful girlfriend would prefer it that way.
FIRST WORLD PROBLEMS
"All in all, tho, New York is filling up with wack people."
Don't you think that people have been saying something like this ever since New York became THE American city? Wack people are showing up everywhere all the time, I bet there are people in Berkeley, Portland, Seattle, Oakland, Chicago, Philly, etc, etc, saying the same thing. People in Berkeley want to move to Brooklyn. People in Chicago want to move to Austin. blah, blah, blah.
You know though, Nathan, it's getting to the point where if I meet new people who ask me where I'm from and I respond that I'm a native NYer (by way of Queens, SI, and Manhattan), they look at me kind of funny.
Maybe I'm just going to the wrong parties or something...
The parents money that these yupsters have flooded these neighborhoods with has created physical development and community improvements which will provide infrastructure for real NYers for decades after they move back to Ohio... not to mention these hoods and NYC in general is as SAFE as its been in 30 yrs.
I've lived QNS my whole life and love seeing my current hood [Sunnyside] accept an influx of young professional residents, new businesses, etc.
Just let people live, and enjoy the best period in recent NYC history
Hah I'm sorry Kenny G for my incorrect spelling.
YOUR girlfriend is beautiful? Says who? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so you THINK she’s beautiful, but she could very well be Butt Ugly and have a cooch like a catcher's mitt.
Just a small taste of reality for ya. Enjoy!
Naruto: You said your. Your either 7 or ... you're not very bright.
Honestly, if you don't like living in NY, then just go away, people. Move to New Jersey or Connecticut. Hell, move to Maine for all I care. There's a housing shortage anyway.
Also, what Chris said is true; we have no problem finding parking in Greenpoint. I love where I live. I like Park Slope as well. But it's just seems too crowded. It's also near Flatbush avenue and Flatbush avenue scares me.
Nathan - you're right. I think I have something uniquely american about wanting to be the first to everything. All of my desires are naught.
I’m sorry mihow, your completely correct. I shall defer to your judgment, being so wise and all. Your so smart.
Most of my friends live in Park Slope and none of them wear $200 jeans, or even $100 jeans. Nor are any of them Ivy grads. Park Slope has some yuppies and pretentious crunchy people, but it's mostly down to earth people doing their own thing.
Williamsburg, on the other hand, is majority hipsters, who try way too consciously to impress each other with their wacky fashion sense and arrogant pseudo-disaffectedness. Williamsburg is awful.
I live in Prospect Heights, which is close enough to Park Slope to enjoy the bars and the park, and far enough from Williamsburg that you don't have to shake your head in disgust at ridiculous fauxhawks or rhinestone-studded belts on a daily basis.
First of all, the battle is hilarious, having "pride" in your place of residence is actually a good thing. These are the people that have respect for the streets and don't go throwing the cheetos bags on the streets like some of the pre-gentrification crowds. Secondly, as a 'Burg resident, I've flirted with the idea of The Slope but it's so far away from Manhattan, it takes like 1,000 years to ride the train and the trains are not dependable. We may have the shitty L train, but it's only one stop away and no one ever pays attention to the lonely, stinky JMZ.
This in-fighting is hilarious. While the fashionable Brooklyn neighborhoods duke it out, it won't change the fact that the new hipsters and yuppies only live there because of the proximity to the City.
They're trying to "Manhattanify" Brooklyn, which is lame. Brooklyn already had its own rich, vibrant culture. If you want Brooklyn, take Brooklyn for how it is, for fucks sake! These "Manhattan-Lite" neighborhoods are pale imitations of the City, are slower-paced and more laid-back. They feel like Portland. They don't feel like the City OR Brooklyn.
This is probably why people from the City secretly think "Ohhhhhh" when they learn someone lives in a fashionable Brooklyn neighborhood such as Williamsburg or Park Slope.
Kevin G: with all due respect, you couldn't pay me to live in the W Village, if only because of the fact that there's a LINE halfway down the block every weekend for a certain subpar bakery (why?!). I was visiting a friend recently, and almost accidentally plowed a woman who appeared in front of me TAKING PICTURES of her friends in line. I know there are many annoying landmarks in my area, but that "takes the cake," so to speak (don't even get me started on the TV tour bus I once saw dropping a gaggle of women in front of the place).
And Nathan is totally right on about wackness through the ages..I live in Greenpoint, and often chat with the old lady in the building who was raised a few streets down. She was actually on a water ballet team at the old McCarren Pool, and talks about how the place "went downhill" after "certain" groups of people moved in during the 50s. I'm not going to comment on the nature of her complaint, but it goes to show that no one ever truly owns a neighborhood, and may inevitably not be pleased with the next wave of occupants.
This July will mark my 12th year (yay me!), so I can see both sides of the neighborhood battles. What's the point, though? I've lived all across the country, and this happens in pretty much every every metropolitan area. If you never want your neighborhood to change, I can gladly direct you to a few small towns in the center of the country.
Uhhh park slope has been doing it since around the time I was a kid: the 80s.
Williamsburg might be more hip now, it is fresh, new, edgy...
But dont confuse that with any kind of all time merit.
Park slope is the timeless classic. They make films about it now.
R2K
Thank you, Jane Minty. I couldn't have said it better myself.
And Burg-what, it really depends on where you live in the slope. If you're close enough to the Atlantic-Pacific stop or the Bergen stop, the N, D, B, and Q trains are only 1-3 stops from chinatown. Besides, williamsburg may be close to the east village, but not everyone wants to be in the east villiage. I'll take my proximity to the 2,3,4,5,N,R,Q,D,B,M,G,F,A and C lines over the L,G,J,M,Z any day of the week.
They turn nice parts of NY into hipster locations
[2] Posted by: Kojak | May 17, 2006 10:39 AM
"Nice" parts like Williamsburg?
_____________________________________
F THE HIPSTER MOVEMENT!
[4] Posted by: C | May 17, 2006 10:53 AM
It's a movement?
_____________________________________
There should be another group involved: original pre-gentrification residents of the nabes invaded first by the hipsters then by the yuppies. I say kick out the hipsters/yuppies and the OGs stay!
[7] Posted by: Vic | May 17, 2006 10:55 AM
The Indians?
_____________________________________
It's also near Flatbush avenue and Flatbush avenue scares me.
[28] Posted by: mihow | May 17, 2006 11:42 AM
Huh?!
_____________________________________
The Slope but it's so far away from Manhattan, it takes like 1,000 years to ride the train and the trains are not dependable.
[32] Posted by: burg-what? | May 17, 2006 11:50 AM
W4 to 7th Av. about 15 min. train time. (I don't live in Pk Slope, so don't try to peg me as a chauvinist.)
_____________________________________
Final Note: Williamsburg does have too many shiny things and too many new buildings.
people have failed to mention that williamsburg is ugly as sin
i lived in Greenpoint for 2 years and felt liberated when i moved to Cobble Hill (where i stayed for 3 years). there are definitely more strollers and literary types in Cobble Hill but also a nice relaxed vibe. Greenpoint has its charm, but it is so inconvenient and i find williamsburg a little exhausting, like a constant party.
blah blah blah. I lived in both. They both have whatever hipsters are; they both have yuppies.
Bushwick is ugly, I do know this for sure.
"Maybe if the G train ran better, maybe there wouldn't be such hostility."
ha ha! i live in the middle (clinton hill), and i would say that my sensibilities lie somewhere between the two nutshell descriptions above. to decide between north and south brooklyn is tough, i like them both, especially toward their extremeties (greenpoint and red hook). however, i'm not a big fan of park slope, and have always considered that part of brooklyn to be somewhat seperate from "south" brooklyn.
This is like watching the Special Olympics.
I lived in both as well. The edge of Williamsburg/Greenpoint and now in Cobble hill. The first one was of full "hipper than thou" young kids who were experimenting with daddy trust funds, coke and heroin. Cobble Hill has too many strollers but is altogether a fine, livable neighborhood that doesnt take "being hip" so seriously. Wiliamsburg is kind of annoying with all that attitude, and dirty streets. For a visual artist its probably more intresting as the Park Slope/Cobble Hill area is more interesting for a writer (quieter).
Sure, I'd also take the convenience of the 2,3,4,5,a,c,b,d,n,q,w trains if it didn't cost just as much to live in the North Slope as it does in Manhattan. Living off the L,G, and JMZ is far superior to the "quaintness" of lesbian strollers and bars that close at 2 AM.
Ivy League grad? - yes
Drink beer often? - yes
Wear $200 jeans? - no (last time I wore jeans was 7 years ago)
Push strollers? - no babymamas that I know of
Read c.lit fiction? - maybe (Neal Stephenson)
North or South? - North (Greenpoint)
Which box do I fit into? I need to know in order to continue living!!
Another pointless "story" that fails to take note of the true driver of neighborhood change, which is demographic pressure. The Satmar Hassidim who live in South Williamsburg, and whom you have chosen to ignore in this article (just as you ignored all people of color to make your thesis fit), have an average of 8 - 10 children per women, according to the New York Times. These people choose to live in contiguous zones, so that they can make proper use of their communal institutions without violating the sabbath. In a generation or so, they, or the immigrants who are settling this land in record numbers, will have mooted this discussion of white hipstes and yuppies and where they live. Hipsters and Yuppies are mere placeholders in the drama of contemporary American life. Once the time comes for them to move on, they will be.
hey mihow, what does Brooklyn and women's undies have in common?
Flatbush!
lol kudos yoqueens
Don't you just love the Manhattanites who are soooo snobbish about "not crossing bridges"? As if they didn't cross any bridges to get here from Cleveland, or wherever they came from before they became New Yorkers! I've been in Park Slope for nine years now (Harlem, before that) and It's still a great neighborhood!
w'burg was cool a while ago, or was at least better than park slope. now, aside from gimme!, wburg has lost it, p slope never had it, and bed-stuy is where the moms, hipsters, and yuppies all belong--marcy would straighten them out.
naruto, learn english. you're stupid.
The only people who use the term "hipster," regardless of the context, are hipsters themselves. Trying talking about hipsters to non-hipsters, they will have no clue what you're talking about.
actually I was one of those guys that wouln't cross bridges for 25 years until my friend came to visit NYC and we walked over the brooklyn bridge and into cobble hill. Cobble hill is pretty awesome. too bad cobble hill and park slope are the only decent places to live in Brooklyn. Clinton Hill is almost liveable and williamsburg is like the LES-crap!
Man, everytime I go to flatbush ave or bed-stuy brooklyn i have to leave my wallet at home, smear shoe polish over my face and take a huge dump in my pants. this deters the residents from mugging me.
who cares about any of this? do any of these places have a 212 area code? No? okayyy. . .
I mean, wha?? these places aren't important. Get back to me when they attach Brooklyn to Manhattan and we all share the same proximity and AREA CODE for chrissakes
The only people who use the term "hipster," regardless of the context, are hipsters themselves. Trying talking about hipsters to non-hipsters, they will have no clue what you're talking about.
Sonny, keep that up and you'll cause the whole universe to implode!
Long-time Willysbrg residents must step outside each day, look around, and think to themselves, "When did the circus come to town?"
I'm sorry, but no one's said this yet:
who gives a shit?
if your apartment's okay by you, and you've got the amenities and services you need...wburg, slope, fucking canarsie -- who cares? it's like some people have to actually work to find something to puff up their own egos about.
"i live in the slope." well, so do i, but i don't gloat about that shit. please.
Does OG now mean Origianl Gentrifier?
"New Yorkers"* crack me up.
How do people let the location of their apartment define them? It's really one of the worst things about New York.
Someone commented before about Hoboken invading the West Village on the weekends, I just moved from the West Village to Hoboken. Does that inherently change my being? You people are crazy.
* When I say "New Yorkers" I mean people that aren't from this area but think they are the epitome of NY
Are you people really that new to this area? I'm sure people complained back in the 80s and mid 90s about the East Village set, and in the 60s and 70s about the Soho crowd.
There will always be weirdo kids here - whether authentic and struggling or rich and bored. The only thing that's changed is 1) the geography and 2) the strange fact that NYC is the city of the moment, like Seattle or LA in the 90s.
I live in Williamsburg. It is ugly, but my friends live nearby and I have cheap rent. Hipsters aren't bad people, if you think they care how you dress or what music you are listening to, they don't.
I vote for Spanish Harlem! Then again I have been up there for over three years. Sad, but true, it too has been discovered by hipsters and fashion forward Japanese women ... the high concentration of housing projects has yet to detract anyone.
wow, this has really set gothamist afire...
As usual, the Observer gets everything wrong.
"Sure, I'd also take the convenience of the 2,3,4,5,a,c,b,d,n,q,w trains if it didn't cost just as much to live in the North Slope as it does in Manhattan. Living off the L,G, and JMZ is far superior to the "quaintness" of lesbian strollers and bars that close at 2 AM."
I don't know of bars that close at 2 a.m. around here. The bars I go to are solid. Cheap beer on tap, decent music, etc. O'Connors, Great Lakes, Freddy's... I'm sure they can't compare to those warehouses with reflecting pools on N. 6th.
And if you think that it's somehow super-cheap to live near N. 7th st. and Bedford now, that's crazy talk. Last I heard, people are moving further and further into bushwick, calling it "east williamsburg".
I have a 3 bedroom and pay less than $1500, BTW. But I don't technically live in "the slope"
It's true about the snobbish types who hate "the damn BT crowd!!". I especially like when Manhattan or Brooklyn transplants hold superiority over people from North Jersey or Long Island - people who, while not living in the city, are actually from the NYC metro area, and many of their families started out in NYC.
Yet, these people take superiority when they themselves spent most of their lives in New England backwaters or the Midwest nothingness, and would be a hell of a lot lower on their own sophistication ladder than natives from the Metro area they criticize.
Who cares where people are from, who cares where they live now. Get over it, folks!
Jane, I agree - the Magnolia line is insane; but that doesn't keep me from loving my neighborhood. Plus I have other good cupcake options within walking distance. ;-)
Naruto, you certainly have a fine taste for reality!
"actually I was one of those guys that wouln't cross bridges for 25 years until my friend came to visit NYC and we walked over the brooklyn bridge and into cobble hill.
. . . too bad cobble hill and park slope are the only decent places to live in Brooklyn."
[54] Posted by: Manhattanite | May 17, 2006 12:55 PM
Proof positive that you have learned nothing since your bridge walk and are still an idiot.
who cares about any of this? do any of these places have a 212 area code? No? okayyy. . .
I mean, wha?? these places aren't important. Get back to me when they attach Brooklyn to Manhattan and we all share the same proximity and AREA CODE for chrissakes
[56] Posted by: ? | May 17, 2006 01:04 PM
And even IN Manhattan there's the schism between people whose area code is 212 and the citizens of 646. They're thinking of doing a revival of West Side Story with that as the divide.
BTW, in case you were being serious, my childhood phone number was (212) 253-6696. I lived in southern Brooklyn. Then we got an area code that was NEWER and BETTER.
Wait a minute -- you didn't know the entire city used to be 212? Where are you really from, hayseed?
WOW! Lots of folks out today! (And thanks for the token racist asshole comment, Dingleberry. Lately it seems like there always has to be one.)
I can remember when Park Slope was the hipster place, or hippie place, and Gpoint and Wburg were, well, where your dad worked (ok, your grandpa once worked, let's be honest). 'Course, I'm in Brooklyn Heights, so hip is a relative term to me at this point.
God, I'm so fuckin' old... :>)
i moved from park slope to greenpoint and haven't looked back since... don't care? me neither
come fight it out June 2- Brooklyn Bombshells vs. Queens of Pain (pain is going down!)
(HI MIHOW!!!)
Are you people really that new to this area? I'm sure people complained back in the 80s and mid 90s about the East Village set, and in the 60s and 70s about the Soho crowd.
There will always be weirdo kids here - whether authentic and struggling or rich and bored. The only thing that's changed is 1) the geography and 2) the strange fact that NYC is the city of the moment, like Seattle or LA in the 90s.
[62] Posted by: oOoOoO | May 17, 2006 01:20 PM
_______________________________________________
The dilapidated slums of the formerly Jewish Lower East Side (which became the East Village) and the evacuated manufacturing district that became Soho were prob. off the beaten path for most people who were not part of their cultures, so these eras/places don't parallel this discussion.
Also, New York is the city of every moment (as your recitation of earlier movements/moments demonstrates).
This thread is so lame. Who gives a fuck which area thinks they are cooler? It's all in the eye of the beholder.
Bay Ridge Brooklyn is turning hipster- one indie band at a time.
Kevin, you do indeed have other great options for baked goods!
As far as the whole Manhattan snobbery issue, I've found the ones least likely to travel to Brooklyn (or wherever else) are Manhattan natives, at least from what I've observed. Sad but true. I guess no matter where you grow up, you can't take the "small town" out of some people. :)
Hey, Kevin, Jane and Steve - Good cupcake place in Bay Ridge!
Here we go with the cupcakes again....
This thread is worthless without someone saying 'Crazy Delicious'.
hey mihow, what does Brooklyn and women's undies have in common?
[48] Posted by: yoqueens | May 17, 2006 12:40 PM
Flatbush!
[49] Posted by: yoqueens | May 17, 2006 12:42 PM
Good joke, but at first I thought the punchline was going to be "they're both full of pussies." That woulda been a nice one too...
Hipsters in Bay Ridge?
You mean they've discovered Pizza Wagon and Century 21? Well then, there's just no hope.
Jane, you in GPT though have an amazing place for brunch. Enid's rocks. It's crazy delicious.
Brooklyn is super-cool until your ass has to walk home on one of the bridges after A) a terrorist attack B) a blackout or C) a subway strike. Seems like every couple of years nowadays.
Wait, who would even be reading this blog that is neither a hipster nor a yuppie? and people, Don't you remember anything from Liberal arts school? As in: Mirrored self-loathing is the foundation of all bourgeois culture. Nigga please.
Don't be so precious about your "authentic neighborhoods", they will all eventually be loving recreated in Las Vegas! to wit:
http://www.curbed.com/archives/2005/07/20/las_vegas_east_village_they_nailed_it.php
williamsburg isn't awful. bedford ave. is awful. people moving here who won't live anywhere in williamsburg except in a two-block radius from the bedford l are awful.
but that's what happens. that is the nature of growth. the east village is sad now, but i think it is better than what it was when i lived there in the 80s.
the person who said, "I just want a nice, cheap apartment and a decent commute to work" is the smartest one on here. that's what we did and we are happy.
I love that Ohio/Cleveland is always the default "hayseed" place that New York transplants must come from, anecdotally.
Cleveland pride.
Anybody reading this who knew nothing about Brooklyn would think there were about five neighborhoods in the entire borough.
Shout out to my homeboyz in Bensonhurst!!
It's interesting how some people pull out the "Yo I'm from New York" card when cornered....
Interesting how day in and day out, so many tough-ass thugs who grew up in the toughest ghettos of New York flex their messageboard skills on a weblog. The Internet is super neat-o.
Tough-ass thugs who were slumming it in the streets of New York may be surprised that a number of "New Yorkers" who gave this city its name or gave it character weren't even from the city.
Newsflash: Whether someone emigrates 3,000 miles or hops over from Jersey, New York's character comes from the constant influx of people from other places.
Some NYC transplants: Frank Sinatra, Liza Minelli, Bill Murray, Andy Warhol, Spalding Gray, Jason Alexander, Marlon Brando ... even Grandmaster Flash wasn't originally from NYC (but his family did emigrate to the Bronx in his younger years, which I assume made him a New Yorker. Or since he wasn't born in New York, does he not qualify as a New Yorker? How many years does it take to be a New Yorker?)
A few comments for the 75 percent of the people on this site who are from Kansas or other out of town locations and are now so hip:
People fled out of the Lower East Side, Park Slope and related areas in the 60's. You went to your factory job in Williamsburg. Bay Ridge/Fort Hamilton area was the best neighborhood in Brooklyn and still is, but since most of you are from Kansas - you don't have a clue where it is or what it's like. You are also clueless about the other nice neighborhoods throughout the city.
A person born and raised in the five boroughs has a mind that operates at least 30% faster than the rest of the world. This mindspeed is the direct result of walking the streets of this city as a young child as well as taking subways & buses at an early age-and surviving same!
A native New Yorker undergoes his entire socialization in this city. You can not move to this city at 23 and replicate that experience.
bob
"Mindspeed"???
So THATS what you call a speech impediment. STFU
Mommy, what's a Hipster?
Dear, it's a made up name for New Yorkers that want to be cool and different than others.
Mommy, why do they wear thos hats like that?
Darling, they're called "trucker hats" and although they don't own a truck, they do need a truck to haul their ego's around with them.
The LES, East Village, Willyburg and Greenpoint are the only nabes that count...the rest of the city is just boring.
So what about Someone born and raised in Berlin? Or Moscow? New Yorkers haven't experienced SHIT, bobby boy.
The Cupcakes here in Bay Ridge are rather good, but I prefer Nino's over Pizza Wagon. Also, 86th Street has gone to sh*t since they closed Dee & Dee and Oddjob.
Well assuming you're not a troll, Bob, you forgot to mention that in addition to all that, native New Yorkers also can function anywhere else in the country. Drop em off in Texas or somewhere else and they're totally thrown for a loop.
It's interesting how some people pull out the "Yo I'm from New York" card when cornered....
Interesting how day in and day out, so many tough-ass thugs who grew up in the toughest ghettos of New York flex their messageboard skills on a weblog. The Internet is super neat-o.
Tough-ass thugs who were slumming it in the streets of New York may be surprised that a number of "New Yorkers" who gave this city its name or gave it character weren't even from the city.
Newsflash: Whether someone emigrates 3,000 miles or hops over from Jersey, New York's character comes from the constant influx of people from other places.
Some NYC transplants: Frank Sinatra, Liza Minelli, Bill Murray, Andy Warhol, Spalding Gray, Jason Alexander, Marlon Brando ... even Grandmaster Flash wasn't originally from NYC (but his family did emigrate to the Bronx in his younger years, which I assume made him a New Yorker. Or since he wasn't born in New York, does he not qualify as a New Yorker? How many years does it take to be a New Yorker?)
[89] Posted by: Gotham Shitty | May 17, 2006 04:10 PM
Most of the people here who have flashed NY nativist attitude have done so only in response to "immigrant" arrogance and ignorance. (In fact, the ignorance would be okay in the absence of the arrogance.)
Why so defensive?
A few comments for the 75 percent of the people on this site who are from Kansas or other out of town locations and are now so hip:
People fled out of the Lower East Side, Park Slope and related areas in the 60's. You went to your factory job in Williamsburg. Bay Ridge/Fort Hamilton area was the best neighborhood in Brooklyn and still is, but since most of you are from Kansas - you don't have a clue where it is or what it's like. You are also clueless about the other nice neighborhoods throughout the city.
A person born and raised in the five boroughs has a mind that operates at least 30% faster than the rest of the world. This mindspeed is the direct result of walking the streets of this city as a young child as well as taking subways & buses at an early age-and surviving same!
A native New Yorker undergoes his entire socialization in this city. You can not move to this city at 23 and replicate that experience.
[90] Posted by: bob | May 17, 2006 04:38 PM
**********************************************
Kansas? I thought it was established earlier in this thread that most new New Yorkers came from Cleveland.
You have to admit that many/most born and raised New Yorkers are ignorant of vast swaths of the city. It's hard not to be if you just live your life at home, at work and at play (sounds like a commercial for something). I was born and raised in Brooklyn and sometimes we ate in Bay Ridge or drove past/through it but I didn't really know it. I still don't don't really know the Bronx (where my father is from) or Staten Island or vast stretches of Queens or even some non-central parts of Manhattan.
So, even though I too have played the "Yo I'm from New York" card cited by Gotham Shitty, I think it's important not to get too carried away with it.
I prefer Nino's over Pizza Wagon.
[95] Posted by: Steve | May 17, 2006 05:06 PM
Pizza Wagon is ordinary. Nino's GranMaMa slice (there may be spaces in the name that I've forgotten) is one of the wonders of the pizza world.
(Nino's is on 3rd Av. btwn 81st and 92nd Sts. [R to 95th] in Bay Ridge for you intrepid explorers.)
bob, I never said I was a "New Yorker." I doubt I ever will be.
Mommy, what's a Hipster?
Dear, it's a made up name for New Yorkers that want to be cool and different than others.
[92] Posted by: Dental_FlossTycoon | May 17, 2006 04:57 PM
"Hipsters" are not found only in New York. I first noticed the "movement" (as someone called it earlier) in Los Angeles.
Also, I would question whether a desire to be different than others is a factor since not only do they look like each other but the basic stylistic implements are all emulative. (Emulative! Good one!)
I'm just commenting so we can set a record.
How did Manhattan get brought up in this discussion anyway? The original material doesn't mention that word.
The top definition of Hipster as per Urban Dictionary:
People in their teens to 20s who generally listen to indie rock, hang out in coffee shops, shop at the thrift store and talk about things like books, music, films and art.
According to my highly scientific statistics,
That’s about 80% of the people who posted on this thread.
heh and for kicks #3
1. the next step in evoluton from emo, (i.e. emo)
2. twenty-something stroketard whose style of clothing conflicts with their demeanor, thus resulting in a spicy psudeo-intellectual with more flavor-of-the-month conversations than a long island prostitute.
C'mon y'all don't play. You motherfuckers in Wsburg suck balls and wish you could get the fuck out. I mean you pay all that goddamn rent and the place looks like shit. And You Park Slope niggas live in a nice place but are too far from manhattan you might as well live in the boondocks. Greenpoint is close but for some fucking reason it aint got no subway line and Redhook is garbage. You got to wait at least 5 years til that place will become a nice place to live. The only place that's nice to live in is Cobble Hill B! I once walked around Cobble Hill and never once did i see a black guy or latino guy. That's how nice the neighborhood is.
They can massacre each other.
Fab Flushing will be left standing.
www.forgotten-ny.com
This is why New York is great. Everyone, from transplant to 'native' are mean as fucking hell to each other. It sure beats the fake Southern hospitality. I'll take a good dose of New York in-fighting any day.
ive been in greenpoint for 5 years now and ive never cared much for the hipsters--- as far as "movements" are concerned this should really be called the post-hipster movement considering it died and then came back to life after the whole waterfront thing went thru-- but i have to say the biggest thing that sucks about billyburg is all the kids that come over from the city, its a nightmare now in the bars.... i dont go to the city for a reason, so why do they all have to come over those bridges they bitch about so much?
as far as the debate, i like to make fun of hipsters and yuppies--- thats what stereotypes are for!!!
and i like my rent controlled greenpoint apt, even if it is going to fall down-- its prolly bigger than yours, baby-- but sometimes i wish i had a stoop to sit on....
I just moved to Bay Ridge after 3 years in Park Slope and I love it. I flirted with Red Hook for a little while, but the lack of transportation and basic amenities was a killer, and the rent wasn't even that cheap. Bay Ridge is cheap as hell and has absolutely everything you need. Its total lack of cool is also a plus, and I think the 1 hour train ride to Manhattan will keep it that way.
(P.S. -- I work in Gowanus, 20 minutes away from Bay Ridge on the R -- I'd never live out here if I worked in Manhattan)
Bay Ridge is cheap as hell and has absolutely everything you need. Its total lack of cool is also a plus, and I think the 1 hour train ride to Manhattan will keep it that way.
(P.S. -- I work in Gowanus, 20 minutes away from Bay Ridge on the R -- I'd never live out here if I worked in Manhattan)
[110] Posted by: Bay Ridge is my new Park Slope | May 17, 2006 09:54 PM
During the day, when the expresses are running, it's a half hour to midtown.
You folks have almost left me speechless. How can you guys sit at your computers and compete for the supremacy slash credibility of your respective neighborhoods, yet complain when they are invaded, either by "obnoxious hipsters" or "ivy league grads"? Or, you feel no remorse about stereotyping the "black guy" that might've stole your television?
I'm definitely guilty of playing the native NY card a few times as well. I was born in Sunset Park, and lived there for most of my youth, until I moved to Bensonhurst with the rest of my family. My mom is tired of the racism we get here for being Chinese (many of the neighbors are wonderful and gracious but a lot also think we are the "invaders" and should "go back to China". She looked into moving back to Sunset, but the prices are so high from Park Slope spreading all over the place that we're now looking to go into public housing.
Gentrification, inflation, and racism are realities in every metropolitan area, and the face of the culprit/invader/"other" changes every few years or so. I've seen it happen, and most of the time, these things affect people in ways that are only promoted by all of your strangely indulgent bickering.
If you've come here to contribute economically, artistically, and intellectually to our fine/tragic/notorious city, then thanks. People do everyday, and I feel like being satisfied with "a decent apartment and a convenient commute" are just about all you can ask for. All the other stuff is just perks for living in the best city in the world. For some people, success might be measured by how many coffee shops/organic knitting supply stores/lack of people of color/food co-ops/vintage boots are in his or her neighborhood. For the rest of us, though, we sit back and laugh because you guys are at least part of what make this city so great, or at least hilarious.
Sally, if you've lived in your apartment for only 5 years, your apartment is NOT rent controlled, it's rent STABILIZED. There is a BIG difference. Over a million New York apartments are rent stabilized, so you're not really that special. Mine is stabilized, too.
Look here and educate yourself:
The difference between Rent Controlled and Rent Stabilization
I don't know about you fine folks, but I'm saving the date for a Cobble Hill block party later this month. I like my neighbors and my neighbors like me, and I walk home from the underrated F alone late at night. My local library branch is always hopping, and you can still get a decent $1 cup of coffee at the Italian bakeries. Brooklyn is a nice place to live; let's settle this with a friendly softball game where we all go out for beers afterwards and call it a day.
The guy who got robbed must live in Bushwick--there are no black people in Cobble Hill...
Damn right there aren't black people in Cobble Hill. They'd hate it -- too many little white kids whining to their parents. They do walk through though, which adds spice and some local color.
Actually, they don't really walk through the neighborhood so much as push their employers' $800 strollers through it. Cobble Hill makes the Upper East Side seem like a bastion of diversity.
this is ridiculous logo---it really is incomprehensible when these "hipsters" or "yuppies" bite on guns and shit. it adds to our to our degrading values as a society.....wake up people! why don't you use a more apropos logo for your set. i see an amex card with the logo, "don't sell out brooklyn".
The funny part is that most of you dont even realize NYC is becoming sanitized by all of you whiny yuppy/hipster folk. Artists (not trust funders trying to justify their meager existence) cant afford to live in NYC anymore. Go to Portland ME or even Buffalo if you want to see new thriving art colonies. NY's glory days are long gone...filled with Bobby Flays and Rachael Rays. The only thing glorious about NYs present is the inflated real estate.
The problem with NYers and many of you who have moved there is that you take on the "reverse-redneck" syndrome. Somehow everyone outside of NYC is "kidding"...
Many of these self proclaimed "sophisticates" in NYC couldnt even point to New Paltz on a map. Many NYC folks do a lot of talking to themselves to boost their ego.
Jim
NYC Native and happily a NY-expat in NW Connecticut.
It's pretty simple, as I see it. Park Slope is actually physically attractive. Hipsters, yuppies, and fads come and go and they're too busy talking about what everyone else is doing to see Prospect Park for the trees.
Yup...we do have the same issue in Chicago. It's sad really, because the same thing that people complain about is exactly what they had kinda secretly deep down in their belly been hoping for. People say 'gentrification' out of one side of their mouthes, and 'development' or 'urban renewal' out of the other. It's all a load of horse shit. 'Racism' is the only way to describe it.
The most interesting thing that the Observer piece left out is that while one half of They Might Be Giants does live in Williamsburg, the other half (John Linell) lives in Park Slope!
Stay the fuck out of Queens.
I am moving to NYC, and I think Brooklyn is more my style than Manhattan. What part of Brooklyn is the most laid back with the best restaurants? Williamsburg is appealing to me, but so is Park Slope.
I have 2 big dogs, so I need outdoor space. What part of Brooklyn tends to have yards?
so, what whatever you do just don't try to sign up for the new rental loft building in dumbo that is located in the middle of the projects. and costs $6500 a piece, because you'll get shot by a projects dealer for being an ex-burg hipster and a ex-slope commuter. you will a dumbster!!!!!
Lived in both. Prefer Fort Greene to 'em all. Got called an ape in Greenpoint by a white woman - hence my handle. Got mostly ignored by hipster-types except for a couple of bartenders and regulars at the Mark Bar. People in Fort Greene are generally friendlier. That's what I look for in a neighborhood - community...especially in Brooklyn.
If you think that Williamsburg "hipsters" don't spend two hundred dollars on jeans then I have a majic turd to sell you.
park dope.
I work in Williamsburg and live in Park Slope to have a fairly objective take as I spend many hours in each and go out in both hoods.
Park Slope is beautiful, quiet, clean and tree-lined and full of well rounded down to earth people.
The Burg is stinky, has substandard restaurants and services even on Bedford which is supposed to be the center of hipsterdom - yah!
If you are desperate to try to be cool and look down on eveyone without oversize sunglasses move to the Burg, If you like trees, great parks, multiple express trains, main library branches and just a generally victorian experience move to the Slope - just leave your car behind :)!
The Burg is Pabst
The Slope is Stella
Seems like a no brainer to me.
"
The top definition of Hipster as per Urban Dictionary:
People in their teens to 20s who generally listen to indie rock, hang out in coffee shops, shop at the thrift store and talk about things like books, music, films and art.
According to my highly scientific statistics,
That’s about 80% of the people who posted on this thread."
--------------
Um, is there anything wrong with any of these things? If this is the definition of a hipster then I am one and I'm proud of it.
You hipsters and yuppies are all the same fuckin thing. You ravage are neighborhoods with your pseudo-culture, and then brand it as "NY". Honestly you can take your CT Muffin shops F.I.T. diplomas and cram it up yer asses...You are killing real NYers culture, our homes and lifestyles. The only ones who know what its like to live in the real NY are the ones who are saying what the fuck is happening to my home every time we see you asses walking down the street. Or if you lived here under the Dinkins era...You can live through that, then yeah you know.
I'm a Jersey guy moving to Brooklyn in two months. I found this whole discussion really hilarious. I spent some time in Williamsburg and I found it to be a parody of itself. Just a trendy neighborhood for the young and fashionable. I found Park Slope to be very nice and quiet, but definately a fun place to hang out. It may have been just me, but it seemed to be especially full of young mothers and lesbian grad school students. Those were my snap judgements.
The bottom line is, I will never live in either neighborhood because I will never be able to afford it. I'll be stuck next to the projects with nothing but a nine milimeter and a prayer while I kiss my white ass goodbye every night. To those who in a nice part of Brooklyn now and are tired of all the yuppie/hippie/hipster newcombers, it was you who made the neighborhood desirable in the first place. Gentrification doesn't happen over night. Now I am going to do my part to gentrify some neighborhood further afield. Wish me luck.
hey, yuppies and hipsters are a lot better than guidos......i
south brooklyn refers to Coney Island, Sheepshead Bay, etc. People need to get facts straight
Too many lesbian/gay bars in park slope!
i read thru some comments, and i find it funny as hell. this is the same "block mentality" that said about the blacks and latinos have. people just get out and enjoy the whole city. some of you are the typical whining bitches that real new yorkers diss - and straight to your face. here we have ppl complaining, the commute is too far, and don't want to pay the money for the luxury of convience, then you're scare of the black guy that might rob you if you live in a cheap area. then you might not like the type of crowd in the area whether it be hipsters or yuppies - shit next thing, you'll be like, oh too many mexicans here. you can't be in new york city, if you aren't willing to walk, the best part about this town, is that you could get to most of your destination by walking. take a train or bus, whatever, shit you get to see some fascinating stuff while on mass transit, but, no some of you are like, why that bum is begging for money or hey look at that Chinese guy playing that instrument. i mean nyc is the most welcoming place in the face of the earth, but we have lame ass mofos that plague this place like some of the above.
A vast majority of hipsters are from Ohio, Specifically Cleveland and they have been slowly infiltrating the area since the 90's in fact I think they were the first to pioneer the whole venture.... Watch out, I swear one day there going to move the entire city of Cleveland to Williamsburg, in fact they should just change the name of Williamsburg to Cleveland! Perhaps one day they will bring the rock & roll hall of fame with them! That would only be fitting since it would only make it easier for them to induct thereself when they grow up, they could just walk down the street!
A vast majority of hipsters are from Ohio, Specifically Cleveland and they have been slowly infiltrating the area since the 90's in fact I think they were the first to pioneer the whole venture.... Watch out, I swear one day there going to move the entire city of Cleveland to Williamsburg, in fact they should just change the name of Williamsburg to Cleveland! Perhaps one day they will bring the rock & roll hall of fame with them! That would only be fitting since it would only make it easier for them to induct thereself when they grow up, they could just walk down the street!
if you want to get away from all the neo nyc lowereastwilliamsgreendumboslopeforestpointcobblyhillgardens drama, we got plenty of empty apts. up here in da bronx,
Both of you rich "Bleep" should move back to wherever you came from, all your doing is raising the cost of living in New York city and robbing people of there real New York culture.
Yuppies and Hipsters are puss from the same disease. Don't waist time with their classification arguments because whichever branch ends up demoralized (something unlikely to happen anyway due to their illogically high self-esteem) you'll still have the other branch around doing their usual behavior.
Note: Regarding their origins. Yuppies/hippsters are generally from the small, affluent bedroom communities that surround the major cities. So, for example, if a yuppie/hipster were to say, "I'm like, totally from Chicago", it means that he is really from say...Narananagusette, Illinois. Therefore, it isn't exactly correct to use Cleveland as an example of their sheltered, white bread origins. Cleveland, after all, is a real city, and its residents are being gentrified out by these flip flop wonders just like us in the New York area. A better choice for the Ohio area would be Shaker Heights, or Deer Park.
As for Wisconsin, that's not a bad choice at all.
so.....
i have to be originally poor to be authentic and live new york city?
hahahahaha wtf kind of hipster shit is that?
i can't think of any hipster who would brag about being poor...except as an excuse for gentrification
i can't think of any hipster who would brag about being poor...except to excuse his/her own gentrification!