Civilian Complaint Review Board Vs. NYPD

Kelly and Smolka should be fired, if not in jail.

How about the instances of undercover cops antagonizing the police and thus getting "arrested" in order to rile the rest of the crowd into become unruly so that the police can in turn start detaining them too? Or the city making it so incredibly difficult for protests to go on in the first place?

I realize that there needs to be some sort of order and a high regard for public safety, but if the very entity that is being protested is ALSO the one that dictates when, where, and how the protests are going to be, there is something very very wrong with that picture.

maybe Governors Island could be turned into a protestors theme park run by the NYCLU. out of work actors could be employed to dress up as cops and conventioneers wearing elephant hats. guests could parade around with placards and hurl invective until they fully sublimate their frustrations with life. at the end of the ride they would be comforted by an animatronic anti-free speech activist Norm Siegel.

I love how undercover cops infiltrate community meetings and they stick out like a sore thumb with their sports jerseys, faded jeans and sneakers.
The minority undercover cops blend in much more easily.
But how long these minority undercover cops will be doing this when their fellow cops still see "them" as the "perp"?????????????????
Let the white cops do undercover work.

I didn't label you or everyone. I asked YOU a question. Careful how YOU label people who ask questions. I didn't say YOU were a conspirator, I ask IF you were a conspirator? Two different things entirely.

Here's a quick break down of how questions and statements work:
Question: Mr. President, are you a liar?
Statement: Mr. President, you are a liar. (!)

Although the NY Times is a good paper, they're not always on point.

Here's the deal with undercover agents: if they allegedly do antogonize protesters there's nothing wrong with it. What's the deal with protesters antagonizing protesters of their protests? I saw a protester (against the war) beat up a person for the war. IS this justified? Of course not. If a Christian anit-abortionist kills a doctor, abortion does not stop.

Cops also "antagonize" drug dealers, it's not entrapment, it's called common sense. You're there to protest. Have a cause and speak your peace peacefully, and ignore "bad eggs". Fighting with the cops will not help the protest or your stake in society, protesters lose all credibility when they fight cops.

Basically, my theory was proven. I asked you a simple question i.e. entrapmant, and you labeled me an unitelligent person, immediately.

A+++ and a gold Star! good work, Guy.

conservative bitches got to eat too. that's why i feed them man-meat every chance i get.

So you weren't implying that because I pointedly criticized the NYPD that you believed I was a "9/11 conspiracy theorist"? The particular way you phrased that question leads me to believe that you had already labeled me as a screwball. Why didn't you ask if I was a left-wing liberal? Or a hippie? Why call me a label with connotations of a tinfoil hat wearing nut?

If you meant otherwise, nun, I'll apologize. I'm guy enough, but please, don't be patronizing by lecturing me on the difference between a question and a statement.

On the topic of undercover police: An undercover cop posing as a protester was blatantly arrested right in the thick of a crowded march by uniformed officers for no reason whatsoever. Common sense dictates that other protesters seeing an injustice done will obviously rally around one of their own and that's exactly what happened. As soon as there was a commotion (nothing physical mind you, but chants demanding that the protester be released) the NYPD deemed the march to be out of control therefore giving themselves a reason to break up the rally early and/or arrest others in that group.

I've experienced nothing but disgust and contempt from NYPD officers as a peaceful, law abiding protester. I was never dressed in anything other than what I would wear to work, a casual business office.

Outside of that context they suddenly don't find me so repulsive anymore.

So out of PERSONAL experience I feel that there is blatant discrimmination against anti-war/anti-bush protesters and there was a very apparant effort by Bloomberg and the NYPD to keep protesters from protesting during the 2004 RNC.

I didn't label you as a screwball. Yes I phrased the question as a trick to make you see what you said "undercover cops as decoys" — are you f-ing kidding me? Perhaps they did pose as protestors, how is that illegal? (it's not illegal for the police to lie to you when trying to get a confession, in fact it's standard practice in police departments throughout the world, it's not moral, but not illegal).

The cops do it to everyone. They crawl the subways and streets looking for out of character people who fuck with the system. You mean to tell me, that ALL of the protestors at the RNC were all law abiding civilians? I doubt that very much. I'm sure a small percetage are ex cons, trouble makers, dems and liberal hippies. I know a few protestors who were republicans as well. You peppered your statements with generalizations of me, and especially the NYPD. For the most part the 55K NYPD officers are good people doing their job and there are a few bad eggs. As I'm sure your office has great people with a few bad breeds as well.

As for free assembly. Yes the constitution says free assembly is allowed. However, under that it also says assembly needs permits. If you do not have a permit, you get ticketed or arrested under the law. Did you know you need a permit to use a tripod anywhere in nyc public domain? If you get a cop doing his job he can ticket you if you do have a tripod permit (most cops will tell you the law and tell you to move on), that's the law.

within your "peaceful protest" i did however see a lot of signs indicating 9/11 was an inside job... yeah that'll go well with the police... guilt by association.

1) AGAIN, I concede that you did not label me as a screwball outright, but rather did it in an underhanded way. You are too quick to judge, dear nun.

2) It isn't "perhaps they did pose as protesters" it is PROVEN FACT uncovered many times in the course of many rallies, marches, and gatherings as recent as this year of our lord 2006.

And NO perhaps it is not illegal for the police to do that, but perhaps it should be. And what if these staged seemingly unjustified arrests to incite the crowd turns out to be a full blown riot? Can they be culpable in starting it?

And yes, undercover NYPD officer do troll for crimminals. But the difference between going undercover as a drug dealer and the instance that I mentioned is that they instigated rowdy behavior in an otherwise peaceful march/protest FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF DECLARING THE MARCH AS BEING A DANGER TO THE REST OF THE PUBLIC THEREFORE GIVING THEMSELVES THE POWER TO STOP THE MARCH.

3) Please point out where I have peppered generalizations of you.

4) Yes, I have stated generalizations of the NYPD. But yes, I have sympathy for a majority of the police who work hard for little pay and often times are the targets of violence (and the targets of spying themselves as shown by videotapes zooming in on and marking specific NYPD officers protesting for a new contract some months ago). But as I have said earlier, through my own personal experience as a normal law abiding citizen, the difference in attitude they had towards me between when I was marching down Broadway protesting the war in Iraq and when I am just another guy on line with them at the deli to grab lunch, is wholly and obviously apparent.

5) I addressed the issue of free assembly in my first post. I understand the issue of public safety and agree that it is a major cause for concern. But highlighted by the RNC 2004, it was nearly impossible for organizers to obtain permits to march, gather, or otherwise protest in a legal manner in any way that was practical. In the end they were given permits that were extremely compromised that did not accommodate the tens (hundreds?) of thousands of citizens who showed up to protest.

6) A cop issuing a ticket or making an arrest for a crime is his job I agree. But the issue at hand were arrests that have turned out to be unjustified because of reasons such as unintelligible instructions to protesters that led to mass confusion and not enough time for protesters to comply with the NYPD.

In the case of undercover stings that I mentioned, they instigated the crowd just enough to declare it a danger to the public in order to cut short the rally as soon as they could. I'm certainly not a lawyer but to me the legality of that is questionable. Do you think the authors of the constitution would agree with those tactics?

7) Finally, by putting "peaceful protest" in quotes you have once again mocked me in a very underhanded, passive-aggressive way.

And exactly what are those people holding those signs "indicating 9/11 was an inside job" guilty of to the police? That is the most telling statement you have written this entire thread. You have now implied that protesters excercising their right to free speech and free assembly are subject to scorn and contempt by the NYPD or in other words, biased justice.