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Room Eight, the city politics blog, has a missive by Representive Anthony Weiner about ferries. Yes, ferries. Former mayoral hopeful Weiner things that ferries are the way to go, given recent transit emergencies:
'[T]he Roosevelt Island tram, the crippling transit worker strike, the terrorist attack against London’s underground, the track fire that knocked out major parts of the A and C train service reminds us that we need to begin to do what practically every other water borne major city has done – get on the boats."Subtext: Anthony Weiner is claustrophbic and prefers poppin' Dramamine! Weiner has five points/ideas about how to make this happen, including "Establish a Ferry Czar" and "Take $15 Million in Federal money to Buy Ferries," which are worth reading, but will the city be able to get its act together to make it? The idea of adding more ferry service to Brooklyn has been around for a long time. But there are great hopes for the new Midtown Ferry Terminal at Pier 79, so who knows - maybe the quick commute from uptown to downtown will be by water.
Do you think there's capacity in NYC for more ferry service? Or will it cater to only a small part of the population? Circle Line Cruises had hoped to start ferry service to LaGuardia last year, but ended up delaying it.
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Ferries are much more energy efficent than buses and do not require 50 years of planning, drilling, excavation, etc (like Second Ave Subway) to get started. They are very pleasant too - more spacious, great views of the city, bike/pedestrian/handicap friendly.
But they need a mass market and freqent service to be successful. A network of smaller ferries that run every ten minutes like Baltimore's Inner Harbor is a good model.
People should use ferries and maybe could be induced to over time, but it's not part of the culture at present, so unless a person lives in a part of Jersey from which it's the most convenient mode or in Staten Island (from which many drive or take an express bus), there's just no modern orientation toward water transit. But having our city's waterways teeming with ferries would be ultra-cool.
New York basically used to have a dedicated department for ferries. Before it was absorbed by the DOT NYC had the Department of Marine and Aviation. It was a holdover from the days of the PanAm clippers and such. The SI Ferries that haven't been renovated yet still have a banner on the smoke stack with the DoM&A's anchor and wings and its old headquarters still exist on a pier on the Hudson (the old bus pier that was used as a holding station for arrests during the Republican National Convention). The SI Ferry is the only publicly run service. NY Waterways is a private company so I don't know how much effect Wiener's plans could have. Besides, since they took over the SI Ferry, the DOT has been doing a really good job, imho.
The problem is that ever since NYC turned its back on the waterfront (thanks for all the highways, Robert Moses!), it can be pretty damned inconvienent to arrive at, say 11th Ave because you still have a second half of your commute to undertake. Ferries seem to work best only where workplaces are on the shore, such as at Battery Park City. There are too few such places in midtown.
One thing they need to take into account with the ferries is that it's pretty hard for the vast majority of the people to get to and from the waterways from any interior part of the city. Back when they had the fast ferries from SI, I would take them to 42nd. The 20 minute trip to midtown was great except for the fact that it took another 30-45 just to make it to my office on Broadway from 1st Ave using the buses provided. It makes it really not worth it for most people in the end.
it can be pretty damned inconvienent to arrive at, say 11th Ave because you still have a second half of your commute to undertake.
[4] Posted by: Don | April 24, 2006 01:57 PM
One thing they need to take into account with the ferries is that it's pretty hard for the vast majority of the people to get to and from the waterways from any interior part of the city. Back when they had the fast ferries from SI, I would take them to 42nd. The 20 minute trip to midtown was great except for the fact that it took another 30-45 just to make it to my office on Broadway from 1st Ave using the buses provided. It makes it really not worth it for most people in the end.
[5] Posted by: MT | April 24, 2006 02:02 PM
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Light rail or bus rapid transit from the dock to the destination.
Completely agree about midtown congestion being an issue. The DOT should develop a more fully integrated transportation plan that really emphasizes all alternatives - Biking, Bus Rapid Transit, Ferries, 2nd Ave subway, some light rail/trolleys, and carpooling. Then discouraging unnecessary driving with congestion pricing, charging more for parking, revoking government parking permits for non-essential workers, reducing lanes of traffic on the wide Avenues and returning them to pedestrians/cyclists. It can all happen pretty quickly if the political will is there to stand-up to automobiles.
It can all happen pretty quickly if the political will is there to stand-up to automobiles.
[7] Posted by: Glenn | April 24, 2006 02:19 PM
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Once upon a time . . .
http://www.bmt-lines.com/bmtmo1936.html
I am reminded of little tidbit about the East River freezing over really badly in the 1800s to the point it stopped ferry service which pressured the city fathers of Brooklyn and New York to build the Brooklyn Bridge.
I am reminded of little tidbit about the East River freezing over really badly in the 1800s to the point it stopped ferry service which pressured the city fathers of Brooklyn and New York to build the Brooklyn Bridge.
[9] Posted by: Toby | April 24, 2006 03:01 PM
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Why didn't people just walk across the ice?
Lazy bastards.
Roebling got the bends for nothing.
A.J.L.: great link! thanks!
would've expected that sort of thing from K.Walsh, who has been suspisciously absent of late on these types of posts.
Here is the real link to the Room 8 entry by Congressman Weiner:
http://www.r8ny.com/blog/features/congressman_weiner_floats_ferry_hopes.html
AJL - It's interesting that the current system of "gasoline buses" lost out bigtime to not only the streetcar, but also to "electic buses". My how Robert Moses changed this city!!!
With gas prices back above $3 and headed for $4 probably by the end of the Summer, perhaps we should take another look at light rail streetcars!
Typo: "thinks that ferries," not "things that ferries.
What NYC needs is the 7 train to stop next to the NY waterway terminal on the westside. Then it will be a attractive intermodal hub for boats to come from brooklyn, staten island, jersey and long island.
AJL - It's interesting that the current system of "gasoline buses" lost out bigtime to not only the streetcar, but also to "electic buses". My how Robert Moses changed this city!!!
[13] Posted by: Glenn | April 24, 2006 04:25 PM
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You can't blame only Moses for that one. The post-WWII shift to autobuses (that's a correct term, I think) was the result of powerful corporate pressure across the nation and few city's resisted the tide.
I believe they do still have electric trolley buses in San Francisco and elsewhere.
What ever happened to the ferry dock behind Gracie Mansion?
>>>would've expected that sort of thing from K.Walsh, who has been suspisciously absent of late on these types of posts.
I'm always here.I just shot a picture of the Sunset Park ferry slip for a future page yesterday.
www.forgotten-ny.com