I'm about six months late, but just in case someone finds this in google, I just want to say that I've never seen such a bunch of fucking stereotypical _new yorkers._ "Don't talk to me! Leave me alone! Don't look at me! NO EYE CONTACT!!!"

Out here in the vast, uncivilized midwest, it's quite common to start up conversations with complete strangers and yes, compliments may be exchanged. The horror...

teen virgins swallowSee them fingering their ass holes and pussies and licking their friends' pussies in a sweet innocent way.

In addittion to my post, it also became apparent that a lot of verbally abusive language was also being used whilst communication is going on between people. Anger stirs this, but we all have our own issues and to deal with them we need to address our issues and not hurl them at others. Abuse is abuse and in all forms but breeds and stems from language as it does the physical and emotional so beware! - This is the society we have and are creating and this is called a cycle of abuse in which we rotate and perpetuate the very problems we are currently are in debate about.

People who abuse come from a point of being powerless and therfore have to render another powerless to feel powerful. To gain real power, it is to respect the opinions of oneanother even if we disagree and not to use sarcasm or abusive language - this is what makes for abuse of all kind as it shows the capacity for other types of abuse when the position of being powerless is being adopted. Please read Liz Adamson, she is the greatest author on this subject and teaches us all what we so easily become ignorant of our own behaviours.

I had read some of the responses to the article relating to this awful case and wanted to post my own opinion.

Humanitarian laws are great in this country compared to a lot of other less civilized countries and agreeably, they need reviewing all of the time and further implenting to stop such crimes from being committed. I also think that there needs to be an even greater emphasis upon instant access to therapy and education pertaining to abuses of all kind so that there will be a reduction in these behaviours men in particular seem to exhibit.

It is frightening and sad to learn that we live amongst such types of characters and we do, and so the need for a greater understanding of these people and not just the consequences of their actions. Society alienates, isolates and therfore this creates ignorance as well as dissociation that this perpetuates the problem further. But people aren't just going to stop because of the law and corporal punishment is outlawed, so how else do we deal with the problem as a society?

"Me" you need counselling so you can understand that any UNSOLICITED comment is ALWAYS harrassment. I like the standard that typoid posted: if you woudln't say or do the same thing to a man, then it's not okay.

Or perhaps it was okay when that creep told me about my NINE YEAR OLD DAUGHTER that "she'll be 18 in 9 years." He didn't even directly talk to her, so what's the problem, right?

You're damn straight I'm angry. I'm angry that jerkwads like you think it's okay to make unsolicited comments. Does your wife think it's okay? Ask her how she feels when a complete stranger says something to her about her appearance. Oh, and just b/c she's pregnant does not mean it won't continue to happen. It happened to me when pregnant. It happened to me before and after having kids. When I was young and skinny and when I was older and fat and (one some days) grubby. It happened to me when I was 13 and just walking along in my innocent revery. And it should.never.happen. Period.

I'll give you another explanation of why an unsolicited comment is never innocent. Because what is the intent behind those compliments, no matter how politely stated? It is to bring to the woman's attention that the speaker finds her sexually attractive. Unless you're in a swingers club, you should always assume the woman is NOT seeking a partner. To assume otherwise is lewd.

To recap: the very act of interrupting a stranger to inform her that you have sexual feelings about her -- regardless of how your childish mind tries to justify it -- is always wrong. Always.

Get it? Got it? Good! Although I don't think you're reading this old thread, I just had to say it. Why? BECAUSE YOU ASKED!

Thank you Mark, that was incredibly insightful. I just have a few things to add.

\"Me\" is a complete idiot:

\"wait a second - are you actually saying that a well-intentioned albeit unsolicited comment is the first step towards rape??? do you really want to stand by that moronic idea?\"

FIRST of all, NO unsolicited comment is well-intentioned. If it\'s unsolicited, then chances are you\'re harassing her. Besides YOUR definition of a compliment may be much different than mine.

Secondly, WE have NO idea which comments are going to stop at words. WE have NO idea which ones are so-called \"well-intentioned.\" My rape was preceeded by \"damn girl you are FINE.\"

There\'s only one way to determine whether what you are doing/saying to an unknown woman is acceptable. WOULD YOU DO/SAY THE SAME THING TO A MAN? If not, then it is NOT OKAY.

Come on guys! The hollaback people aren't saying you can't compliment a woman. They're saying you can't yell a 'compliment' at a woman you don't know on the street. It's all about acknowledging that women have a right to be left alone, same as us. We can compliment women we don't know, but we have to make sure they're not doing something that shouldn't be interrupted (like walking), introduce ourselves politely, apologize for interrupting whatever they're doing, and ask if it's okay to speak to them first. It's threatening for a woman to be approached by a stranger, so we have to make it clear that we're not trying to be jerks. The difference between harassment and a compliment is that harassment doesn't recognize that women have a right to be in public without being bothered, and we don't have a right to talk to them just because we want to. I think it's pretty obvious, and guys who say they don't understand are just making excuses for themselves.

UptightPeopleRunAmok,

Apparently you are not listening to what the problem is.

"a few of these women who are hell-bent on twisting innocuous comments from men into harrassment."

I think most people are pretty good at gleaning intention from the tone of the comment as well as the pose and stance of the commenter. The problem is that if that person makes me feel uncomfortable, afraid, shitty, angry, etc. then the comment was plainly not innocuous. The comment had an intent that it fulfilled and that's street harassment. And all street harassment is obvious, douchebag, so stop harassing women with your "innocuous" comments.

I agree with some of the perspectives that "me" and "i'm too sexy..." bring forth, since I could easily see myself being targeted by a few of these women who are hell-bent on twisting innocuous comments from men into harrassment. The intent of stopping the obvious harrassment is laudable yet dubious objective of HBNYC. I suspect that this will really be another case of perverse incentives, since the real offenders are not likely to be dissuaded by the potential (if they are even aware of it) of being posted to a website. Personally, I am planning to keep to myself and mind all my manners for fear of either being subjected to website humiliation or fines from the NYPD. It seems that the city is becoming an urban version of Pleasantville except that the people who cause problems won't likely change. Put another (more melodramatic) way, is the death penalty really a deterrent to murder?

Then again, I've neither killed anyone nor catcalled/yelled/etc. at a woman on the street/subway.

Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I really think that it should be okay for people to interact and compliment one another - especially when we spend so much time and effort on sartorial splendor in this town...

you know, "me" i know some very nice women who have dated and even married women-hating pigs, so saying that you met your wife by going up to her on the street and now you are expecting your first kid, doesn't prove anything except maybe that your wife probably has very low self esteem--NOT because she is married to a guy who approached her on the street, but because she is married to a guy who has made comments such as you have made today about angry bitter women complaining about guys "complimenting" them on the street. I hope you DON"T have a girl, because you might not change your attitude and then your poor daughter will have the same lack of respect for herself that your wife must have to stay married to someone who thinks as you do about women. sorry so harsh, but i calls 'em as i sees 'em. you know, if you could just wrap your head around this idea, there would be some hope for you and your family: You can say you are not offended or made to feel unsafe by comments a guy makes to a woman on the street, you can say you don't think he meant anything bad about it, BUT, for you to be a decent man, you HAVE to then agree that really, it is up to the woman who is being addressed to decide how she feels about it and to call it what it feels like to her. A woman-hating man can't wrap his head around this idea. Can you?

Men complimenting women on the street is NOT with gracious intent. I didn't ask you what you thought of how I look - I'm just trying to go about my business and I don't need someone with questionable intentions bothering me. I don't feel the need to yell at men and tell them they look good. Men have NO FUCKING IDEA what women in this city deal with. If you're nice to these assholes then they try to follow you home. If you ignore them they call you a bitch and try to physically assault you. There is no winning at this game and only one person's safety is at risk: mine. Am I angry about that? You'd better fucking believe it. I have been chased, touched against my will, and called a bevy of unsavory names just for walking on the street.

Smitty has it right.

Thao Nguyen is AWESOME, good for her and all the ladies of NYC that have to deal with perverts.

The subhed at HollabackNYC says that women have the right to feel 'sexy'. Now I'm used to the more buttoned down version of privacy or the claim that one's mode of dress is one's own business.

But for the HBNYC supports (ladies, I mean), where does the notion of 'sexy' come from? Doesn't a good portion of it come form the reinforcement of others?

I'm as narcissitic as the next NYer. I think I look pretty damn good some days, and I'm affirmed even more so when it draws a comment of two. Make me feel sexy (I'm a het guy, btw, though I welcome gratuituous praises of my physical being by all genders, species, etc.).

It's not that I haven't seen myriad ugly attempts to compliment women; but it's one thing to demand absolute privacy versus policing the passes so they are uniquely celebratory to you and not offensive (and believe me, the range of comments, delivered at the right place and time, it broad). That isn't any advance for leveling the playing field between the sexes. That's just being whiny.

Yeah "me", you may as well quiet down, cause you sound like some kind of serious throwback Don Rickles. "You broads dunno a compliment when ya hear one?" Sorry to break it to you, but the person whom you are trying to compliment is in fact the arbiter of whether its offensive or not. I'm sure your wife wouldn't be thrilled about you talking to women on the street, but it sounds like that's your style.

"ME" you are an idiot. You obviously do harrassing of your own and realize the Holla Back girls will oneday foil your shitty existance.

I think those girls are doing an amazing thing with that site. My girlfriend is constantly harrassed on the street and it has even brought her to tears.

How would you like it if people constantly made unsolicited comments about you wherever you went. I would imagine it would make you feel really shity. But then again you are a douche bag so maybe not.

Can I have links, please? I'd like to read the whole entries.

Not at all, dear... it's a common mistake with guys like yourself. ;)

"Hey Princess!" ...vomits in mouth.

thanks for your well wishes - glad to see i was wrong about you being angry.

...and I hope it's a baby girl. It would be interesting to see your reaction the first time she experiences the same type of harrassment you apparently think doesn't exist.