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The Federal Transit Administration has approved the first part of the Second Avenue subway, and the Post reports that it means the MTA can start using $1.3 billion (of the $5 billion it'll take to create the 63rd to 96th Streets part; $13 billion for an entire East Harlem to downtown Manhattan) for design and engineering. The quote the Post has from Representative Carolyn Maloney is "The wheels are turning on the Second Avenue subway project, that's for sure. This is another sign of the progress we're making," but Gothamist has to say the wheels are very, very slow - public hearings for the Second Avenue subway began back in 2003 (okay, we're impatient). We really doubt the 63rd-96th Street part will be done by 2012, as hoped, but what's cool is that the Q train will be connected to what we think may be the T line at 72nd, 86th and 96th Streets. In the end, the Second Avenue subway will be a good, if semi-Quoixotic experience - it'll make things like the 4/5 construction issues easier to bear, even if we'll be wearing orthopedic shoes by the time it's ready.
The MTA on the Second Avenue Subway project - reading the project history is a trip through memory lane back to 1929.
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first, wicked graphic!
second, i'm very worried about what the 2nd ave subway is going to do to congestion at the First ave F line stop
i mean, when even one train spews forth its passengers at that station, its a goat rodeo of epic proportions, what with only two means of egress and the two of them being more than a city block apart
what is the added congestion going to do to it?
and dear god, what will happen if, god forbid, there's ever an emergency at this station??
only those people that are the very first off the train will not be made into commuter briquettes
at MINIMUM ... 25 years.
From the Community board meeting a couple of weeks ago about the 72nd and 96th street stations, they are going to have to tear up parts of Second Ave in the low 90s to build it. Where are all those cars going to go? Perhaps we can just do the congestion pricing south of 96th street now and reduce traffic ahead of time.
Also coming to the East side is Bus Rapid Transit (http://nyc.theoildrum.com/story/2006/4/11/125041/234). Liz Krueger's office is hosting a community forum tomorrow night Tuesday, April 18th at 7pm at 8th Floor Meeting Room at Marymount Manhattan College, 221 East 71st Street (between Second and Third Avenues).
sorry, that link didn't work. Here's a link to the BRT article
who designed this awesome logo?
I still think they should do something useful, like extend it to Governor's Island or maybe even Staten Island where it can hook into the SIRT.
It's too far under the Harbor for Staten Island. What they need to do there is restore the North Shore RR line (I've walked the right of way and it is still intact), then link that to a rail line that goes from Willowbrook Park over the Bayonne bridge (built for rail) to the last stop on the light rail there which connects to the PATH.
The T train would come into existance only once they create the leg of the 2nd ave subway below 63rd street. Until then it will just be the Q train, which will continue north on 7th ave, use existing track under central park that connects with the 63rd st track that the F uses now, and then turn and shoot up 2nd ave.
The crappy part of this plan is that, even if the line is extended below 63rd st all the way downtown (which I think is dubious -- I think it will be just 63rd to 125th) it won't have any express tracks, just a local line. LAME.
This is such a waste of money. Let's just switch to congestion pricing for cars already and use the revenue (and less crowded streets) for more buses.
Why will it take so long to build this thing? It took them barely 7 years to go from groundbreaking to full operation for the ENTIRE Manhattan portion of the A/C (1925-1932). Did they use some secret technology back then? Why does it take so damn long to dig a cut-and-cover tunnel nowadays? Wouldn't it cost less to do it faster?
Which will be done first the Freedom Tower or the 2nd Ave subway?
It's too far under the Harbor for Staten Island. What they need to do there is restore the North Shore RR line (I've walked the right of way and it is still intact), then link that to a rail line that goes from Willowbrook Park over the Bayonne bridge (built for rail) to the last stop on the light rail there which connects to the PATH.
[7] Posted by: glennardo
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There was at one time, perhaps in the 1930s, a thought to extend the 4th Ave. Line (the R train) to Staten Island.
Why will it take so long to build this thing? It took them barely 7 years to go from groundbreaking to full operation for the ENTIRE Manhattan portion of the A/C (1925-1932). Did they use some secret technology back then? Why does it take so damn long to dig a cut-and-cover tunnel nowadays? Wouldn't it cost less to do it faster?
[10] Posted by: confused
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Good questions.
Re. subway extension to Staten Island.
(From http://www.nycsubway.org/articles/historyindependentsubway.html)
Dating back to the 1913 Dual Contracts, this plan would run a subway under the Narrows to the Staten Island Rapid Transit. The Brooklyn portion would connect to the BMT's 4th Avenue line at 68th Street and run to New Brighton and Tompkinsville on Staten Island. While this never happened, evidence suggests that some provisions were made by the BMT for such a connection: the bridge over the LIRR Bay Ridge Branch is 4 tracks wide though only the northernmost two tracks are in use, and the 86th St / 4th Ave station appears to have "escapes" in the wall bricked over along the Manhattan-bound track.
Also from nycsubway.org:
"43 years after it was originally proposed, construction on the Second Avenue Subway began on October 27th, 1972, when both the mayor and governor broke ground for the new line at East 103rd St. and Second Avenue. A second section between 110th and 120th Streets was also started. The stations originally planned for in Manhattan were 125th Street, 34th Street, Houston St. and Wall Street. Opposition to such few stops forced compromises and additional stops were planned for 106th St., 96th St., 86th St., 72nd St., 57th St. and 48th St. The number of stops added negated the possibility of expanding the line to four tracks in the future.
South of 34th St., the plan for a straight run down Second Ave., Chrystie St., the Bowery, Pearl and Water Streets, drew opposition from residents east of Second Ave. who felt that the line would not serve them well. In January of 1970, the Board of Estimate revealed a new plan for the area - a loop line that would run as follows: southbound IND trains would leave the IND Houston Street line and run east to Avenue C, north to 14th Street and west along the current tracks of the BMT Canarsie Line terminating at 14th St / 8th Avenue.
Concurrent with the building of the Confucius Apartment complex in Chinatown, a third 700-foot section of the Second Avenue line was built. The southern portions of the trackways begin separating for cross-platform transfers at Grand Street. Legend has it that the walls of the Grand Street station are built to be "easily" knocked down and there are trackways for the Second Avenue Line behind these walls . . .
. . . Finally, in 1975, due to the City's fiscal crisis and the need to maintain the existing infrastructure, the Second Avenue subway construction stopped. The sections actually finished (completed tunnel, no track) are from the Bowery to Chrystie Street, East 2nd to East 9th Streets (filled back in), East 99th to East 105th Streets, and East 110th to East 120th Streets . . .
. . . $63 million had been spent on 2nd Avenue Subway construction through December of 1978."
In the end this will turn out how the Big Dig did in Boston: Years late and billions over budget.
London-born rapper Sway is to be honoured at the BET Hip-Hop awards in the US...
London-born rapper Sway is to be honoured at the BET Hip-Hop awards in the US...