Thousands of New Yorkers Rally for Immigration Rights

Ok...despite all my snarky comments on another thread yesterday...I am probably more lib on this issue than I thought. Because I support the McCain-Kennedy Bill that grants amnesty to current illegals....but makes it harder for future illegals to come in. And the amnesty comes with serious regulation. these people will have to start paying their dues to stay here and if they don't register for amnesty, out they go.

I wonder though, Kennedy was out there rallying for these immigrants yesterday....do they support his bill?

Or do they want a continued open door policy where illegals flood in indefinitely?

That's where I stand.

I have nothing against immigrants, and recognize many of them as hard working people trying to survive in this world. But I did not like a system where they paid no taxes, used free services, and basically were able to suck a faulty system dry. They were forced to do it because they are invisible. But something had to change. That's all.

while many illegal immigrants may not pay taxes, they also work in jobs that are usually too dirty, dangerous, or underpaid for americans to touch. they make your food, delivery and a ton of other services affordable, so you pay less than you would than a higher-paid, tax-paying legal worker would. Right or wrong, that's the math, so I find it dubious when folks complain about illegal immigrants not paying taxes - you are going to pay for it one way or another. there are better arguements for making it easier for immigrants to get legal work here. immigrants, legal and illegal, make this country one of the most productive and wealthy there is.

MT--thank you.

K---no, it's not an issue of jobs too dirty, and too dangerous. It's greedy businesses that do not want to pay Americans with rights a regular wage that affords them to live a reasonable lifestyle.

I realize and appreciate that businesses need to do what they can to earn a profit....but sometimes you have to draw the line. Let the fecking businesses migrate to Mexico and export their stuff over here, if that's the issue.

By the way, illegal immigrants have numerous negative effects on our country as well. Hospital emergency rooms are in a state of emergency due to people going in for doctor visits.

And don't ever get into a car accident with an illegal, ok? You are screwed.

The illogical stance on letting illegals in indefinitely is astounding. Why bother having laws and procedures in place for citizens if the chaos of noncitizenship works so wonderfully? cheez!

Do you think a society can indefinitely handle that huge a number of "invisible" people who are exempt from our system?

A hands off policy is sloppy and irresponsible. And is recommended by people who have no concept about infrastructure of any kind. Amateurs, really.

I live in a community full of immigrants. I have no idea of who is legal or not. There are Indians. Are they illegal (somehow I doubt it)? There are Salvadoreans and Colombians. Are they illegal? Because most of them go to clinics for healthcare and someone is paying the bill.

There are Brazilians. I know them and like them a lot. Hard workers. But most are illegal. They drive terribly, get into accidents and use the health system. Who is footing the bill? If their employers are, then fine. ok?

Then there are the Haitians and the Middle Easterns. Have no idea if these people are illegal or not. Would be nice to know.

The Central Americans and South Americans (minus the Brazilians), out of all these people, are the biggest crime problem. Nasty gangs, shoot outs, robberies, rapes, etc etc etc.

We have a right to be discerning people. Are you as undiscerning about whom you let into your home as who you let into your country? Some people are. Because they have a low opinion of themselves.

I guess those same people are projecting their poor values onto the country. And others are simply hypocrites.

"I could get hung up on this issue all day."

No kiddin'? (playin' with you)...

Illegals get free health care, free education, free translators all paid by the taxpayers. We can't be HMO for the whole world. If they get amnesty again, in 10 years there will 20 million new illegals demaning free services and citizenship.

At the same time there are millions of people doing things in the legal way i.e. waiting in line.

First border security: Wall, minefields whatever.

Then let's discuss amnesty.

Besides, once the housing boom is over, there will be recession and raising unemployment.

I hope that the powers that be pass laws to move all illegal immigrants from the country. I know that it is an impossible hope because we live in an imperfect society. America may have a lot of money and power but, in many ways, America is not organized. That is how this situation has gotten out of hand.

First, there are NO jobs which Americans will not take. However, there are businesses which will not pay a higher enough wage for many jobs, which makes them undesirable. Also, business will not advertize the undesirable jobs so that Americans will apply. Businesses have come accustomed to paying laborers little or practically nothing. They are simply unwilling to take a cut in their revenue or to reorganize their business to make allowances to pay the higher wage. This is why major telephone wireless and land line companies in America have farmed much of their customer call centers outside of the country. They are paying workers in other countries to answer calls from Americans. The cost is far less than what they would pay an American for the same work. Also, if the Government can pay a farmer to hold crops in warehouse, then the can supplement them to pay a proper wage for the labor to pack and pick the product.

Also, the business owners know that they can get away with not paying an undocumented worker a higher wage. These business people want the undocumented worked to stay in America more than anyone. The business owners want to continue to exploit the low wage worker. The exploitation can only happen to undocumented workers because they have no right. The system can't account for the undocumented work's existence in America. Unfortunately, the undocumented worker does not go forward with a complaint. Who would They are probably threatened with lose of their livelihood by getting deported or worse.

Secondly, undocumented workers are not only Latino and Hispanic. Undocumented workers fly in with Visa's of all kinds. Some people fly in or come by ship and never leave. Many of the higher paid undocumented workers are from Europe and the UK. Many Asian come to the country by being smuggled on ships or they come in via Mexico or Canada. As we have heard, some have come in tucked away in the wheel wells of giant jumbo jet aircraft.

This is huge. The citizens of American should get mad. Although there should be no tolerance for undocumented workers, there should be no tolerance for organizations paying people "under the table." If a new status in created for legal citizenship of undocumented workers or work permits for illegal immigrants, will illegal immigrants pay all of the back taxes which they have escaped paying for the past several decades. Will businesses which employed undocumented workers pay all of the back Social Security they have escaped paying for the past several decades.

Eleven million undocumented workers. Wow! That number alone in paid taxes would have helped to pay for the war in Iraq. And the soldiers fighting in the war deserve a pay increase. Eleven million people not paying taxes is too many. Either move them out, or make them pay their share. Working hard labor for little or no pay is not payment enough for a lack of contribution to the countries collective bank roll.

Personally, I think we should cut down all the forests to build all the housing that the illegal immigrants will need. It would also be good to build houses all over the foothills and other natural beauties of this country that we won't need; it's just extra space anyway. Next, I think we should tap into our natural water ways and dam our rivers to provide more resources for the illegal immigrants. Then, build some more power plants and landfills, that will help to match the increase in population. Next we should just ignore all the air pollution from the increased amount of cars, since we don't care anyway.

Hmm...

Open borders for everyone!

wrong... even those jobs would be taken if people could make a living on them... except illegals are usually paid in cash under the table and no tax is taken out of their wage. the "reality check" is we do not need to import more illegal unskilled labor into the country, we have plenty of our own. Our social systems are struggling already. And why should your or my taxes pay for services to noncitizens while companies make out like bandits. why should you or my children be in overcrowded classrooms or emergency rooms. WHy should your already rediculous property taxes continue to go up. ENOUGH.

Bottom line is people should follow the proper procedure to become a citizen.

I was schooled in overcrowded classrooms too, and I found it it to be distracting and disruptive to the learning process. It is not ideal.

So does Canada get the same kind of influx of illegals as we do? How do they handle it? I vaguely remember there was an anti-immigrant sentiment up there , but that's because they have a liberal government that grants amnesty to al qaeda families.

And I also seem to remember that there is a huge community of disenfranchised poor whites who get passed over in favor of immigrants.

One has to wonder why places like the US and Canada do not invest in their own homegrown human resources (which takes boot camp discipline and focus) instead of the easy route of importing illegals.
I guess business doesn't have the patience, and the government doesn't have the inclination.

By the way, one of the biggest concerns people have with guestworker programs is that we will inherit Europe's problem of unassimilated workers who burden the system and who are socially and culturally isolated. We have it bad, but Europe has it worse!

i think it's hilarious at how all of the rednecks are against immigrants because of potential taxes. These people make crap money, and their cumulative taxes (i'm guessing) wouldn't be as much revenue for the government as, say, the amount of corporate largesse we give to major US companies. If you really cared so much about taxes and the stupid things (e.g., this ridiculous war) that teh money could be used for, you may be better off trying to get large companies to pay their taxes instead of swindling out of them through loopholes. Why focus on the little guy?

"And what about those who are legally applying for American citizenship, who have green cards, who are going through the system like they should? Aren't we discriminating against them for following our laws while we let illegal immigrants continue to slip through the cracks or work jobs in this country or use government amenities?"

Jenny, well stated! It's really a sad day when law seems to be of little concern. I blame the government in part for that. The government did not abide by laws governing immigration and it sent a bad message.

Looks like the Senate is reconsidering this bill as a result of the marches. And it looks like the McCain-Kennedy Bill could go through--which would lead to amnesty (read accountability) of current illegals, and stricter measures, including a security fence, to block out future illegals.

Sounds good to me. Of course, current illegals are not happy about the security fence or some of the other measures...but they are going to lose on that one.

McCain-Kennedy is the compromise that meets the interest of all sides, imo.