Gothamist: Hasidim Protest Cellphone-While-Driving Arrest

sweetpoet

Tue, 25 Apr 2006 05:09:47 -0500

to orthomom. The Crown Heights Riots of 1991. You say that it's offensive to even include as an example of Hasidic Jewish violence? well you show great bias and ignorance and racism, in your comments. You obviously did not see the same video footage that I did (and still have on tape, recorded on VCR, in the early 1990's) where it's clearly seen Hasidic Jews scuffling and being thrown around, and fighting with police, and throwing things too, and getting arrested. It went even beyond them "attempting to defend themselves". What the hell were you even watching back at the time? Because there quite a number of news clips showing Hasidic Jews fighting and rassling with cops. And getting arrested by angry police. Yes, in THAT very Crown Heights incident !!! Throwing things and umbrellas and scuffling around. So to say that Crown Heights was only about a Hasiid Jew getting stabbed to death, and blacks rioting, shows great stupidity and annoying ignorance of all the facts of that situation. I HAVE THE VIDEO FOOTAGE IN MY POSSESSION, IN CASE YOU DON'T BELIEVE ME, OR IF YOU DOUBT WHAT I'M SAYING, OR CHOOSE TO BE RUDELY DISMISSIVE OF IT. What do you think Crown Heights was about in 1991? What did you see in the news? Just selective clips of blacks throwing rocks and bottles, because of being angry that Lubavitcher Jews ran a red light, and ran over and killed a 5 year old kid, and just kept on boogying away, and not caring? Selective amnesia you have I see. Or just not hearing all the facts on Hasidim ALSO behaved apallingly in Crown Heights, in 1991. Being violent with both blacks and police, and getting arrested too. So I just "clarified" for you. So yes, the 1991 Crown Heights riots CAN rightly be used as another example (video footage does not really lie) of Hasidic madness and violence and nastiness. Jackie Mason was another schmuck who didn't seem to be aware of the Hasidic violence in that Crown Heights affair. Was I like the only person who saw (and even recorded) that video news footage? of Jews fighting cops and getting arrested in that whole stupid mess? And don't minimize the insanity of that wig-burning thing either. Stop watering down the truth and stop ignoring the rude hard facts about these people. Jen Chung was correct in citing 1991 Crown Heights as an example of Hasidic friction and violence, over the years. (and to "Amazed", about his comment "who knew Hasids were so feisty?" well I knew. I know that Jews in general can be quite nasty. Hasidim in particular, cuz of being so cultic and fanatical. Not all of course. Some are cool and easy going. But many are just plain mean and arrogant. Just the facts. Peace.

Bixby

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 22:45:00 -0500

Marc, wtf? That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Your whole point about "potential violence" is ridiculous and since they were rioting, totally irrelevent.

Tim N.

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 22:20:10 -0500

Marc... they trapped an officer in their car and smashed it to shit. The driver, who was breaking the law, refused to hand over his registration. What other laws would you like to have seen broken? I would imagine that officer totally thought he/she could get beaten. Just like they did in '78.

Marc

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 20:33:17 -0500

oy. mamish ah shanda. In response to the claim that riot police would have been there, white-knuckle gripping the threat of busting heads, had it been an ethnic Hispanic/Black nieghborhod: Is it possible that the potential for violence against police is much greater in those areas and thus warrants a decisive response? That potential among a community with a higher crime rate would seem, logically, to be higher. Thus a group of officers confronted by an angry crowd in such an area would be correct in rallying the defense that riot police can provide. But in a nieghborhood that the police recognize as lawabiding, the threat from those citizens would be much lower. Honestly, can you really see the community in question beating an officer, even if they could? And bad driving doesn't make the niegborhood threatening, anecdotal evidence aside.

hahahahasids

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 18:45:38 -0500

Nice to you @ B&H? That's cause they are about to rip you off!

Pro

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 17:22:30 -0500

dug, i've been to B&H multiple times and these guys are very helpful even when you're NOT buying from them. but then, it would be expected from one of the best photo and video shops in the country.

ethos

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 17:16:04 -0500

^dug, Well said on BOTH posts

dug

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 15:59:17 -0500

cheath, if you honestly can't find courteous hasids, go to b&h photo. they're very helpful when you're buying from them.

dug

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 15:54:40 -0500

there's nothing wrong with an insular community or living by 18th century standards. it's probably a more fulfilling lifestyle in many ways. there's nothing unique in thinking you're better than everyone else... fits right in with capitalism, right? the problem is when they start to believe they live outside the law.

Al Gore

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 15:33:27 -0500

These fanatics are a blight. They're complete scammers and welfare cheats. They should be sent back to Occupied Palestine where they belong. Whew, that's a mighty wide brush -- mind if I borrow it to paint my barn?

Kojak

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 15:24:25 -0500

Ohh Yentl, You put the 'She' in Yeshiva

Yentl

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 15:07:56 -0500

"What exactly is the proper term for a group of Jews then? A gaggle? A pack?" 'Heebs' is another good one

Jayson

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 15:04:00 -0500

bklynd said: At the time, the controversy was that she wrote "mob of Jews," not that a bunch of people had tried to bully her out of writing a ticket. Sheesh, I know some people are militant about grammar but that's extreme! What exactly is the proper term for a group of Jews then? A gaggle? A pack? Jayson

Tim N.

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 14:52:25 -0500

LDLM: I love it. Next time CM gets hassled, maybe they should start a bonfire in Union Square, burning some Giro and Bell helemt boxes and some old, worn-out Pearl Izumis. See how far they get.

cheath

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 14:49:12 -0500

i live in the area where boro park/midwood/bensonhurst all start to merge together and experience hasidic driving every day. they certainly are the worst drivers out there and don't show any respect for other drivers or the laws of the road. rude. they're just fucking rude people. AND their sense of entitlement is through the roof. who do they think they are? i haven't encountered one hasid who has shown any regard for anyone who isn't hasidic--on the road, on the street, on the subway. i agree with what's been said about the driver...if he's hard of hearing, what the fuck is he doing on the phone? my sense of what happened is that he got belligerent with the cops and they got fed up. good for them for fighting back. so fuck 'em. way to go, NYPD!

eu65e56ue56u

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 14:31:20 -0500

I lived in Borough Park for a while, and maaan, theys don't like the outsiders. I'd stand on the corner to cross the street and the mothers would clutch their broods and stare ... kids would yell out "goyam!" and "schiksa!" (to whatever female company). The day I moved out was like a huge community celebration - all the neighbors poured out onto the streets, surrounding some guy on a lawnchair in a huge fur hat (a community leader?) while they watched and smiled as I lugged a disgusting couch across the street. Songs could be heard all over the place. They really didn't like me.

meesalikeu

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 14:29:58 -0500

oy, these replies are all starting to give me such heebie jeebies!

Jack

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 14:22:08 -0500

As a Brooklyn born Jew whose parents survived the Holocaust, I can honestly say I have 100% no idea wherethe Hasidim get off saying "Nazi Germany!" to a situation like this. They're idiots. The guy was stopped for talking on a cellphone while driving. He broke the law. Deal with it. Just because he owns a "well known" bakery in the neighborhood doesn't mean he's above the law. It seems like a massive overreaction at best and idiocy at worst. And an embarrassment no matter how you cut it. The Hasidim have always been a pain in the ass to the normal/not-stuck-in-the-18th-century Jews in NYC from day one. They refuse to be anything but insular. Act with disdain towards anyone who is not a Jew. Act even worse towards Jews who are not as "religious" as they are. And they generally are never pleasant to deal with. And regarding that idiotic "Nazi Germany!" chant that came out, believe you me if there is real anti-Semitism I'd probably be right there on the front lines fiighting it. But for someone--let alone a Hasid--to invoke the spectre of "Nazi" oppression at a ticketting incident.... That's beyond belief. It's petty and pathetic. And belittles the tragedy of the Holocaust in ways that words cannot express. With secular Jewish NYC slowly dying, and the Hasidim still growing like crazy I'm just sick and tired of their backwards/warped views of the world being presented as the public face of Jewish NYC. What a bunch of idiots. And I do agree with the assessment that if the crowd were not white (ie: Black, Hispanic, etc...) this would have been handled differently. It's interesting and baffling to understand how NYC behaves at times.

dug

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 14:17:54 -0500

please tell us what is skewed here, mike?

Tim N.

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 14:15:55 -0500

Now, now, let's not go to far. Personally, Hasidm, ha say hello.

Kojak

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 14:06:44 -0500

Whats worse is that I had a bagel and cream cheese for breakfast this morning... Never again...

Kojak

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 14:04:53 -0500

I'd like to know how many police were mobilized to counter the rioters. Did they even send in the riot police? If this had happened in a Hispanic or black neighborhood, they'd send in SWAT, the National Guard and god knows what else. I've heard and seen their behavior in that neighborhood... These people have the NYPD by the nutsack and they go about like they can do whatever they want. It needs to stop.

LDLM

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 13:58:49 -0500

ITA past neighbor. It is inexplicable that the police would allow these individuals to behave in this fashion. Any one else driving this way would be ticketed. Any other group of rioters would be contained and arrested. The people corralled & arrested at critical mass & the repub convention were doing nothing wrong yet these idiots are allowed to riot & set fires in the street. How could anyone in their right mind think it ok to set fires in the street. Check out the link on the wig story. These idiots burned the wigs in the middle of an intersection & only 1 person was arrested. Outrageous.

Kojak

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 13:55:00 -0500

Mike, Explain... Because i don't see where shes screwing with the facts. This is what the online newspaper source tells us.

Gold Man

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 13:50:03 -0500

*And technically, a ticket is a form of arrest; you're just not taken into custody.* A ticket is not a form of an arrest. It's a frm of violation, which warrants the ticket in the first place. As for the hasidim rioting, what are they mad about? The old man did not present licence or registration. Driving without a license is against the law and grounds for arrest. it's not a violation like speeding or running a stop sign, it's a misdemeanor, you're typically arrested for these infractions. Hasidim anywhere in the world think they're immune to the laws of the land. And whenever the authorities are involved "against them" they scream "Nazi Germany", it's fuckin bullshit. I'm Jewish and applauld and disgusted by their actions and behavior.

Mike

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 13:48:54 -0500

Jen Chung you racist bitch get a real job. This is the second time in 3 months you've skewed the facts just to create negative contraversy. Remember the hasidic vs/ park sloping lesbian rapping video. Jen do you have anything positive to contribute?

Jen Chang

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 13:45:40 -0500

i heard the rioters threatened to use cream cheese, kosher dills, dreidels,Menorahs, and Ham at the police. They also use the language of talking like they are spitting on everyone.

King Kong

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 13:41:38 -0500

I've seen Hassidim speeding around Williamsburg in minivans with police lights on their dashboards. These guys don't appear to be actual NYPD and I wonder what they are... It's a little disturbing that they're pretty much allowed to get away with the mob-like behavior while other groups don't get the same type of treatment. Then again, that's not the fault of the Hassidim. It's the failure of law enforcement.

Yentl

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 13:29:42 -0500

There were several reports of rioters throwing stale bagels at riot police. I'd call that assault with a deadly weapon

past neighbor

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 13:23:54 -0500

I used to live in Boro Park and this happened before when the Marshall's tried to tow a car that had outstanding tickets. The Orthodox swarmed the car and would not let the Marshall take it. The thing that upsets me about the crowd last night was the adults were allowing small children (at 10:00 p.m.) to be part of this "melee". They have also run red lights on Friday afternoon and I have seen cops stop them and let them go - when I confronted a cop about this he shrugged and said "its a courtesy we give them on Shabbos". So I say it about time they stop extending courtesies and enforce the law.

bklynd

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 13:18:29 -0500

The past incident this reminds me of was a story from, like, 5 years ago, where a TEA officer finished a parking ticket by noting that she couldn't get down all info, because a "mob of Jews" had confronted her to dispute the ticket. At the time, the controversy was that she wrote "mob of Jews," not that a bunch of people had tried to bully her out of writing a ticket.

get him off the road!

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 13:09:36 -0500

This guy is a menace to society! 1. Hasids are the worst drivers in the world. Even worse than Asian female drivers. 2. He's talking on the cell phone. 3. He's freaking 75. Three strikes! He's OUT!

rev pays

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 12:01:26 -0500

I liked how NY1 called this incident a "small melee". Guess a small melee is when 2 cops get their car trashed and a few bonfires. Not to mention, 2 cops getting surrounded by a large crowd.

Dirk

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 11:54:29 -0500

Nothing like a good old fashioned riot. I wonder if the NYPD's Disorder Control Unit were called out, too?

dug

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 11:43:56 -0500

unfortunately, i've seen how hasids drive and i'm thrilled that the cops are finally ticketing them right along with the dollar vans. more on context, was that beard-yanking brawl that broke out last year during the big jew party from the same community?

Callavere

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 11:36:31 -0500

Driving into Manhattan via the BBT this AM, four cop cars went past us, with their lights on. Two had smashed in windows--I assume from the incident last night.

Sternel

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 11:35:54 -0500

MT: He wasn't arrested for talking on his cell phone. He was arrested for refusing to present his license and registration. And technically, a ticket is a form of arrest; you're just not taken into custody.

Yowza

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 11:30:21 -0500

I think bad hearing qualifies as the third part of the trifecta.

Mr. Brightside

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 10:44:48 -0500

This is so dumb. He probably got arrested not for talking while driving but for mouthing off (haven't you seen Cops?) which happens alot. From my vantage point, the cops were justified. Bullying the cops for arresting him? I must echo one of the sentiments above and say that had this been another ethnic group they would be cleaning up cracked heads. Old guys who can't hear in the first place fighting a ticket for talking on the phone while driving? Does anyone else think this totally stupid ? How about abide by the law in the first damn place? Or admit you were wrong and take the punishment (the ticket) like a man.

Toby

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 10:39:05 -0500

If we take religion out of it, a 75 year old driving while talking on a cell phone is two parts of the trifecta of an accident waiting to happen.

CeAsE

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 10:38:11 -0500

Did the cops rough anyone up from the crowd?

Yahweh

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 10:34:18 -0500

That picture looks like an ant farm.

Ted

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 10:32:05 -0500

Can you imagine if this happened in a Black or Puerto Rican neighborhood? All the national talkshows would be going crazy, trying to diagnose the problem in those communities.

anon

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 10:12:59 -0500

cops were harsh i won't disagree with that, per usual the racial defensiveness/angle gets blown out of proportion... but i'm glad someone's enforcing the cell phone thing.

orthomom

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 10:07:26 -0500

But you took that info and twisted it into some kind of cultural insult, which is ridiculous. Um..no. I simply stated that giving "context" to this instance of awful behavior by citing riots against another unrelated sect of Hasidim might not exactly add anything to the picture, context or otherwise.

MissPinkKatee

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 10:05:34 -0500

So he was pulled over for talking on his cell phone- but he's hard of hearing, according to what I hear on the news? He can hear enough to talk on the phone, but not hear police sirens? Something is not adding up....

reader

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 10:04:43 -0500

ortho - What I'm trying to say is that Gothamist, as they do in many other posts, was clearly just trying to give some related information. But you took that info and twisted it into some kind of cultural insult, which is ridiculous.

Yentl

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 10:01:14 -0500

Oy vey...

ahem

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 10:01:02 -0500

You can't live an insular life and then expect everyone to rally for your cause. I don't see them protesting injustices of other communities. Old (or any aged) people on cell phones while driving is never a good combinaion, whether you say it in English OR Yiddish!

MT

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 09:59:11 -0500

The Post had a very different account of what happened according to the cops. Does anyone have a clear idea of what really happened? Both sides sound fairly unreasonable. Arresting someone for talking on a cell while driving is a bit extreme. I'd think a ticket would be more appropriate if he wasn't flying all over the road and endangering anyone. Then again the hasidic guys are notoriously awful drivers and pretty much flout every driving law out there from signaling on up (before I get hell for that, take into consideration that I have been hit TWICE by hasidic guys in their station wagons coming off the Brooklyn Bridge and they both proceeded to get out of their cars and try to blame me- one was a rear ending job and the second one had no insurance- and when that didn't work one of them pulled the percsecution card screaming in my face that I am a nazi - I happen to be of German descent and am a little sensitive to being called a Nazi. Call me crazy. Ultimately I had to the call the cops both times to have the dispute resolved) so I'm inclined to make a sweeping generalization here and believe this guy may have been driving wrecklessly.

Tim N.

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 09:58:35 -0500

Regarding that 1978 incident, which I remember hearing about from my old man, in the aftermath of the incident a black cop was working cleanup crew and turned to his partner, who was white, and said, "Man, if this were my people, we'd be cleaning up cracked heads." No one argued with him. For years afterward the 6-6 was known as Fort Surrender. Last night the mob trapped two cops in a police cruiser, broke its windows, and wouldn't let them out of the neighbe. Somehow I'm thinking if this had happened in, oh, I don't know, let's just say some other neighborhood, it would have been different. PS: Channel 11 had a great report on this last night at 10. Many in the crowd were reporting that Mr. Schick was hard-of-hearing. Guess that's why he was on his cell phone.

S.D.

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 09:49:47 -0500

Sounds like the whole thing got blown way out of proportion. Wonder what the politicians do?

orthomom

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 09:41:07 -0500

I think it's called "context": useful background information on other conflicts involving this group. But don't let that get in the way of your willful misinterpretation. Hm. "This group". Somehow the killing of a Hasidic man from a completely diferent sect in a completely diferent neighborhood gives context about "this group". I don't expect everyone here to know everything about Hasidim or New York City racial tensions throughout history - but maybe don't let YOUR lack of knowledge about all that stuff stand in the way of making a sarcastic comment.

none

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 09:39:16 -0500

Good, I'm glad to see the police pulling people over for using cell phones while driving. It's stupid, dangerous, and against the law! I can't count the number of times I've almost been hit by a driver using a cellphone and not paying attention to the road/their surroundings. If only the police would enforce all the other dangerous driving behaviors. As far as roughing the guy up, I'm sure it hurt less than getting hit by a car would feel to the pedestrian.

Kojak

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 09:35:02 -0500

Cue racial outrage in 3.2.1...

Kojak

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 09:34:02 -0500

Not surprised. It’s a very close knit community, but this is going too far. Just because they practically own the neighborhood doesnt mean they can riot. Most other minorities wouldnt pull something this ridiculous over a simple cell phone infraction. Stay away from Ultra Hasidic Communities at all costs...

reader

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 09:31:30 -0500

I think it's called "context": useful background information on other conflicts involving this group. But don't let that get in the way of your willful misinterpretation.

Andrew J. Lederer

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 09:22:19 -0500

Yeah. I kind of wondered what you were implying by including those other things, too.

Moshiach

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 09:15:26 -0500

These fanatics are a blight. They're complete scammers and welfare cheats. They should be sent back to Occupied Palestine where they belong.

orthomom

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 09:07:22 -0500

The wig-burning is really irrelevant to this. That was more of a ritual burning, and there was no violence. And the Crown Heights race riots is offensive to even include. This is the first time I have ever heard it implied that Hasidic Jews ever rioted during the race riots in 1991 - no one has ever said they even attempted to defend themselves. There were certainly Hasidim who behaved appallingly last night, but to attempt to link it to a Jew getting fatally stabbed, and other Jews getting beaten in 1991 as an example of some kind of precedent is just irresponsible. I think you need to clarify.

Amazed...

Wed, 05 Apr 2006 08:53:02 -0500

Who knew Hasids were so feisty?