Gothamist: Two Guilty Verdicts In Moore Murder Case

holiday

Mon, 26 Jun 2006 14:20:03 -0500

I cant help but notice that everyone is getting too caught up in the race topic, to stop and think that maybe the reason the police didnt investigate the her dissapearance sooner was because of something much less pertinant. Have we thought about how many times parents of all races call the police depts around the world seconds after their children were supposed to be in a certain place at a certain time, that they are so bogged down with these that they have to take most with a grain of salt? I mean how many times can they hear a worried mother call about a missing child only to find out an hour later that she stopped by a friends house to say hi on the way home. Precisely why they instituted policeis that state a person isn't considered missing by their standards until 24 hours after they've gone missing. Not that it's right, it's just a fact that overworked PD's have to face.

Deborah

Thu, 22 Jun 2006 23:17:04 -0500

I am a resident of New York City, and a black woman. I had not even heard of the Romona Moore case until a friend from Brooklyn had told me the about this horrific crime which was perpetrated against this young woman. It is a tragedy what happened to this lovely, young woman, by two descipable pieces of garbage, but what is even more of a tragedy, is the way, the New York City police department dismissed her family and friends when they reported her missing, as a nusiance. She was a resident of NYC, and her parents are tax papers who pay the salaries of the NYPF. They have a right to the same resources as anyone else who reports a missing person, yet, they were ignored. It is no secret that racism, bias and classism, resonates within the NYC police department. When it comes to the way the NYC police department handle crimes perpetrated against blacks and crimes perpetrated against whites, it is very different, especially when the perpetrator is black, and the accuser is white. We have had several cases over the years, where the police department did not take an active role in investigating crimes which had been reported by African Americans, and the crimes never even made the news because the victims were African American. When the victim is white, such as the Central Park Jogger, and the Imette St. Guillen case, and the missing college student on the upper west side, it makes the local and the national news. The same week the Central Park Jogger was raped and left for dead, a black woman in Brooklyn was raped and thrown off a roof that same week, but most residents of NY did not hear about the case because it was not widely reported. Romona Moore's case did not make the news due to the fact that she was black, West Indian, and not worthy. The detectives in her local precinct where she resided concluded that she was with a boyfriend or just took off. This who was a young woman who was an honors student and a young woman who had close family ties to her community. Her family did everything they could to convince the NYPD in Brooklyn, that their daughter was not a runaway but no one listened to their pleas. The NYC police department treated her case and her family with disdain. She was 21 and they considered her an adult. Imette St. Guillen was 24, but they moved heaven and the earth to try and locate her, and they did. Romona Moore was not important to the police department unlike the Imette Guillen case. Her perpetrators were black, so the NYPD didn't care, and neither did the NY press. They only care when it is black on white crime, and then they sensationalize it, and make it a priority. If more people had known about Romona Moore, the people of her borough would have organized and made a conscience effort to try and find her. I have a message for the poster who criticized the man who knew about Romona Moore's kidnapping and torture, and did nothing to aide or assist her. Yes, he is as guilty as the murderers of Romona Moore, and he is just as descipable as the murderers of Romona Moore. However, are you as outraged about the man who witnessed tha attack on black little 7 year old Sherrice Iverson in 1997 and did nothing to assist this little girl? On May 27, 1997, their was another case where a young white man, by the name of Jeremy Strohmeyer who lured this little girl in a restroom after playing hide and seek with her. He sexually assaulted and murdered young Sherrice Iverson in the stall of a ladies room in a bathroom casino, in Primm, Nevada. David Cash who was a friend of the murderer did nothing to aid or assist this little girl during the commission of a crime even though he watched the entire crime unfold. He had no conscience and of course he will one day reap what he sows. It is reprehensible that a young man could commit such a brutal act, and another young man witness it, and not even so much place a 911 phone call to the police. Jeremy Strohmeyer has received life in prison, but deserved the death penalty in my opinion.

petrice

Fri, 31 Mar 2006 12:57:43 -0500

I thought I was done, but I'm back. What's curious Suz, is if you make pains to distinguish yourself as a "good" white person whose attitudes differ from your racist counterparts (which means you acknowledge that racism exists and has negative effects) why is it so difficult to imagine that the racism that your academic peers exhibit exists in larger society and often affects the actions that people do take and do not take? I am curious to hear your answer.

hep

Thu, 30 Mar 2006 21:26:13 -0500

i agree with petrice. suz's arguments smack of cultural elitism, and she always misses the point. yes, there are poor people of many different racial and cultural groups, but generally all of those groups can take comfort in the fact that in american society they are always considered better than black people--something implied in our culture through either action or lack of action (hurricane katrina!--ohmigod, racism in INACTION!)

hep

Thu, 30 Mar 2006 21:22:53 -0500

but poor whites always had the luxury of being "white" and hence having an advantage over their black counterparts. race matters, girl. get a grip.

suz

Thu, 30 Mar 2006 19:32:20 -0500

As far as I am concerned, when I use the word ghetto, I am referring to black ghettoes. That is what disproportionately makes up the inner city on the East Coast. I don't buy into this whole idea that poor/disadvantaged =anger and crime. Only in certain communities is this the norm. There are other poor communities throughout the boroughs and what differentiates them from blacks (and a lot of Latinos) is a tight family structure and a respect for education. How about West Indians who suffered the same kind of slavery as US mainland blacks? They definitely do NOT have this same kind of self destructive, whining, underdeveloped attitude. So it's not slavery and it's not segregation. Because poor whites have the same kind of sluggish n'er do well approach to life. It's poor values. Nothing else. Poor values and no incentive to improve.

suz

Thu, 30 Mar 2006 19:15:49 -0500

Petrice Take a wild guess about how much I give a shit about what blacks with chips on their shoulders think of my opinion?

suz

Thu, 30 Mar 2006 19:11:34 -0500

Petrice, why don't you calm down? I wasn't giving you my own personal reaction to these two murders, and I wasn't saying that a rich person's life (like that white millionaire Imette, [rolling eyes]) is worth more than a poor person's. I'm just telling you that it's human nature to not have the same reaction to every single nasty event that happens on this planet. I am curious: when a Chinese girl goes missing in Chinatown and is later found raped, headless and bound under the Brooklyn Bridge, does Harlem get all worried and indignant about it? Is Harlem supposed to get all worried and indignant about it? Let me try a new angle: people feel the most upset and alarm over incidents and news stories in direct proportion to the possibility of the same thing happening to them. Imette's murder made people concerned that a killer was on the loose who could potentially victimize any one of us. Like it or not, East Flatbush is a universe unto itself that most of us do not experience and cannot relate to. Therefore when a murder occurs, we don't raise the alarm about it. Chances are it's not going to happen to us. It's not like people don't care. It's just that it doesn't strike the same chord. And no amount of whining is going to ever change that. Again I ask: Does the Amsterdam News painstakingly report every single murder in Harlem (and the New York black community at large)? No? I didn't think so. So STFU

Petrice

Thu, 30 Mar 2006 18:53:34 -0500

Snippy scarcasm aside, Suz, who are you to tell blacks who their real friends are? If a majority of African Americans feel one way, what is more logical, that their thoughts and feeling have some merit and rationale, or that they are all brainwashed and complacent because they don't agree with you? My main problem with your whole "ghetto culture" refrain are the implications and wording of your argument. You've adopted the current cultural usage of the word "ghetto" which makes the world synomous with "black poverty" when in acutuality, many people of many backgrounds live in ghettos (now before you even argue that you didn't say "ghetto" meant "black", you've only talked about black people and how they need to change their foolish ways with their "ghetto culture." There is a crisis in the black community, but your assumption that the root is some vaguely defined and poorly labeled "ghetto culture" is offensive. There are a variety of factors in work in the black community, and no one will listen to you, or accept your offer of "friendship" until you are able to show that you understand the complex and intricate relations between, race, class, history, and economics, as well as culture. Peace. I'm out. This thread is dead. May you continue to grow as a person.

Petrice

Thu, 30 Mar 2006 18:40:02 -0500

Oh, and Suz. On behalf of all black people, let me extend my thanks for your heartfelt and understanding advice--at the next meeting when we all get together, I'll tell everyone what you said. Thanks Suz, you're always soooo helpful.

Petrice

Thu, 30 Mar 2006 18:34:24 -0500

Suz, I'm not misconstruing anything. Your words speak for themself. "So yeah, there is a human tendency to put less value on people like that. Until it became established that Romona Moore was an achieved young lady who was going somewhere, there was a perception that she was just another piece of ghetto trash who suffered at the hands of her own." Now, I won't argue that you condone violence against women of a certain background, but your argument justifies the "blame the victim" attitude that allows society to feel justified about paying less attention to victims of violence from certain backgrounds. Suz, I recommend you hang it up. Your elitist, racist arguments are tiresome.

ch1ck

Wed, 29 Mar 2006 21:19:47 -0500

misandrist

suz

Tue, 28 Mar 2006 19:35:49 -0500

"i.e. if that woman didn't have a certain lifestyle she wouldn't be harmed--and if she did have a risky lifestyle, she got what was coming to her." Petrice--I did not say that. And I sure as hell hope you are not misconstruing my words on purpose. That suggests desperation. My point was: your chances of being murdered in an inner city environment are a lot more likely than if you live in other parts of a city. That's a fact. We all know that. Therefore, people are desensitized to it. They see the victim as another likely statistic with the odds stacked against them. That's the way people think after awhile, without doing it consciously. Do you want me to apologize for it? Additionally, I think when it became known that Romona Moore was a college student with good grades as opposed to a crack addict (I am not passing judgement here, I am just giving my objective observations of how people react ), the story became more poignant to the public at large. I am tired of the hypocrisy as well, because I am not all that sure that people in the ghetto environment get all rankled and rattled over the murder of innocents either. I just know the Amsterdam News is not making every murder and rape of a young school girl the top story of the day. That newspaper cherry picks too. So hang it on up.

suz

Tue, 28 Mar 2006 16:13:07 -0500

I'm an independent who leans conservative, but I vote dem at times too. So let's just clear that little presumptuous stereotype out of the way first. Next: Liberals love to coddle those whom they consider inferior, by pouring money into the abyss, without setting standards and conditions for improvement. And that's because they expect none. They have no confidence that it's possible. Who is it who buys into genetic predetermination anyway? You know..like Bell curve? Who buys that argument? I'll tell you who. Liberals in academia, that's who. They won't say so to your face. But behind closed doors, they believe it 200%. I've worked with biologists at university , and guess what? These guys were progressive libs in every way imagineable...except for one. They thought blacks were genetically inferior in the iq department. I even got into an argument about it with them and they brushed me off saying I didn't know anything about genetics. Academia, in large part, buys into genetic predetermination including the idea that ethnic groups have differing intelligence. Don't believe me? Try raising the subject sometime and see what you get back. Unless you are black. Then they won't have the nerve to say what they think. Judgemental and conservative leaning I may be. But I don't believe for one second that low achievement and crime etc etc etc in the ghetto has anything to do with innate intelligence. Huge cop-out. It has to do with a culture of low achievement and bad habits. I KNOW that if the culture changed, the potential for excellence would emerge. But it's not going to happen until ghetto culture changes its values, its destructive lifestyle (i.e. fatherless children with mothers not much older than themselves), AND PUTS A PREMIUM ON EDUCATION. It's up to them. It's up to their leadership to raise the bar and apply the pressure. Because without the willingness and motivation: all the money in the world won't do a thing. If the last 40 years hasn't taught you that, then you have gladly consented to be blind. In the end, maybe blacks need to consider who their real friends are and stop being so effing defensive and paranoid. I sure wouldn't put my money on liberals or Al Charlatan Sharpton

petrice

Tue, 28 Mar 2006 14:03:43 -0500

Suz, your argument that I am just engaging in "victim" arguments is nothing new or particuarly revolutionary. Conservatives always like to cry that those who are cognizant of the impact of race, gender, or class are being "victims." Your argument is instead the familiar "blame the victim" refrain that conservatives are so fond of. Hence your "ghetto trash" argument--i.e. if that woman didn't have a certain lifestyle she wouldn't be harmed--and if she did have a risky lifestyle, she got what was coming to her. Your attitude belies, callousness and a lack of sympathy for fellow human beings. It is always the "ghetto culture's" fault, always the fault of "those people" who "choose" that lifestyle, and you never once question the factors that might lead people to "choose" a certain lifestyle. I'm tired of your "ghetto culture" refrain. The simple fact is many kids don't have hope, they don't see people like them rising to the top, and some people buy into negative patterns of thought, because they don't believe they have a choice. You see Suz, society will always pay a price. We can either choose to spend our money positively and help "those people" in those "ghetto cultures" or we can choose to spend our money negatively and finance jails, and police forces and more institutional violence and corruption. Racism exists Suz, and it's filtered through the arguments you're so desperate to offer. Racism doesn't have to be overt anymore--there's no more Klan burning crosses on front lawns. Racism is reflected not so much in what is done, but what is NOT done. Who is Not hired. Who is Not helped. And who is Not listened too.

King Kong

Tue, 28 Mar 2006 08:57:11 -0500

Yes, I generally feel sorry for people who are so ignorant and misguided that they are unable to see how nonsensical their stances are. It is a shame that you fail to understand nuance and the complexity of this race called humankind. Your stance is no better than that of the raging liberal who fails to see that some people take advantage of ideology for selfish reasons. You and such person are part of the same tumor that has partnered with the likes of tabloid media, celebrity-worship culture, extremist thinking, and failed history lessons to stifle real public discourse that advances our society.

suz

Tue, 28 Mar 2006 07:36:14 -0500

King Kong You feel sorry for ME??? lol! Yeah, I feel sorry for me too. Oh how I wisht I lived a ghetto life, a ghetto life, a ghetto life. Oh how I wisht I lived a ghetto life, so I could be easy and free. *snort*

suz

Tue, 28 Mar 2006 07:31:07 -0500

Petrice Maybe it's time for you look at the reality beyond your own world of victimhood and reconsider what it is about the values and culture of the ghetto that keeps people down. All sorts of government money has been poured into programs to try and eradicate the problem...but the core issue still remains: poor values and poor habits, an insistence on glorifying the black ghetto identity, and no premium put on education. There lies the culprit. As for white lives having more value...again, look outside at the real world: I can guarantee you that some poor white woman, raped and murdered in rural New Hampshire or Appalachia, or heck, even Rochester, New York, is not going to garner a lot of press. So put that worn out handkerchief away and get over yourself. It's disgusting already and only liberals are buying it. They aren't in power anymore. Time to wakey wakey.

King Kong

Mon, 27 Mar 2006 22:35:28 -0500

Suz, I really feel sorry for you. People like you don't help anyone because you're too self-serving. Your mentality belongs on Massa's porch.

petrice

Mon, 27 Mar 2006 22:10:35 -0500

I wish you conservatives would stop whinning about "the race card." Because, truth be told, whenever it suits your own interests to bring up the issue of race, you are ever so eager to do so (think George Bush in his social security debacle as he tried to "reach out" to black voters by arguing that black men died at earlier ages than whites). The reason "the race card" irks you so much because whenever anyone talks about race it drives home the issue of your privilege and standing in this society. It implies that you may not have earned everything you now have in your life, that your accomplishments have been colored by class, by race, by gender. Intellectual conservatives whine about "the race card" because they wish to banish any discussions about social inequality that don't stick to class dynamics (implying that everything originates in class or monetary differences) but the reason we have these class differences is because of way American and Western societies have treated race and instiutionalized racism (look at the riots in France). The point is, no one is automaticlly trying to say you're a bad person when we someone pulls "the race card." But there is a need for everyone to recognize their privlieges in society and what that affords. Heterosexuals have heterosexual privlege. Men have male privliege, an whites have white privlege. White lives and deaths are given more respect, more dignity, more attention and time than black deaths. 3/4 of black children are born into poverty, and poverty affects the black community on a higher level than their white counterparts, and when deaths occur in the black community the white instutional structure has a tendency to pay less attention because they were poor and black--class and race--you can't seperate those two issues, no matter how desperate you are too.

suz

Mon, 27 Mar 2006 20:14:58 -0500

Whiskey Pete Have you read Thomas Sowell's Black Rednecks and White Liberals? Absolutely brilliant. It's one of the best books I've read. Sowell has argued, using lots of research, that what we know as black culture is really cracker culture, imported from Britain, where certain portions of England and adjacent countries harbored some, let's say, culturally backwards people. Sowell, of course, is considered to be an Uncle Tom by some in the black community. But that's because he is accomplished, brilliant, wealthy, respected--and has no use for crackers of any shade...lol! Highly recommend. Great book!

suz

Mon, 27 Mar 2006 20:05:39 -0500

Whiskey Pete, you may be correct about the Moore Family's intentions. Stay tuned.

suz

Mon, 27 Mar 2006 20:03:22 -0500

I know all I want to about ghetto culture. Exposed to it since day one. Unfortunately had to go to school with it too and it disrupted my education. Everything got watered down and mediocre and lax in order to cater to the lowest common denominator (bussed down to Chelsea from Harlem). Even then, in a school that was exactly one third white, one third black, and one third hispanic, there was bullying of anyone who was academically successful. BTW-- my father taught out in East Flatbush. He didn't take any crap and wasn't afraid to step on any toes. Interestingly, he was respected for it. These days he'd probably have his head blown off.

suz

Mon, 27 Mar 2006 19:49:45 -0500

I am a woman...so how can I be a misogynist? And what did I say that was misogynist anyway???? There are some real looney tunes posting on here. Whiskey Pete, we are on the same page but I already knew that from reading your earlier posts. I agree 200% with what you wrote. I realize I am using very strong language that can be construed as volatile...but really, I think a national debate is long overdue regarding the way the black underclass has gone backwards instead of forwards for the last 40 years. Way backwards. The values and culture of that community are going to have to change long before the poverty and disadvantage do. That is a fact.

whiskey pete

Mon, 27 Mar 2006 17:17:09 -0500

suz, you do have many valid points and you're not racist at all. the problem here is, anytime the word "black man" or "black woman" is used with the word "crime" or "ghetto" the liberals will slash you with all their might and call you a racist. you could have said "the perp is a described as a black man in his 20's with cornrows and a gold chain" ya know what? those liberals would call that racist. enough is enough with this race card crap. If romona moore was asian or symbianese or south african would the NYPD have not focused on her disappearance? yes. why? because a missing person is not considered missing in the first 24–48 hours if over the age of 18. romona moore's parents knew of the dangers in their neighborhood. they knew of gang violence, they knew of common robberies, why not move to a smaller apt, but a better neighborhood? no money? bullshit! no job? bullshit! it seems to me, at least on television that her parents are good hard working citizens, however, that does not give them the right to point the only finger at the NYPD. they should point the finger at her killers, her killers friends and her killers family, not the NYPD. i have an idea: perhaps the lower class should stop blaming the white man for every single element in their lives and start educating their children. keep them off the streets after the sun goes down, keep them in schools, teach them that an education is worth more than a life of gang banging. as for imette st guillen, yes she went to a prestigous high school, but on scholarship since her parents could not afford to send her there. she was also on scholarship to john jay. she was from a blue collar town in boston, not rich not poor. her family is hispanic and she had a love for education and people. the murders of romona moore and imette st guillen do not differ. they were both college students doing well in their studies, they both had a love for education and people, and they both were from relatively lower income families. the problem here is not race, but greed. The moore family knows that if they sue NYC they will eventual settle out of court with a good deal of money. the Moore family also knows that it would be better to sue the killers and their families, but alas since they have nothing, well, they know if they hit NYC up for some cash they will get it... it's called greed and it's sickens me to the core.

Reckless Tongue

Mon, 27 Mar 2006 01:49:47 -0500

Suz, I sympathize with Mike wanting you banned, though I don't agree with it. It's important to know that racism, classism, and misogyny like yours not only exists but is frighteningly rampant in our society. In your 2nd posting you say, "Until it became established that Romona Moore was an achieved young lady who was going somewhere, there was a perception that she was just another piece of ghetto trash who suffered at the hands of her own ." I wouldn't care if she had been a piece of "ghetto trash." I wouldn't care if she sold her body every day and shot heroin between her toes, her death was an atrocity, and it doesn't matter what class background someone comes from, we should treat each individual with respect and concern--that is what decent people do. You trot out your faux statistics to argue that people--well, let's be frank here, you're talking about black people, or poor black people, or "ghetto trash" as you say it, are more likely to be killed because they live in a certain environment. You try to hide your seething racism behind class generalizations (i.e. it's not about race, it's about class) but race has always been about class. Slavery and segregation were about creating a lower class of people, and segregationist polices were in place to make sure black people stayed in a lower class. Furthermore, you don't know the first thing about the ghetto or "ghetto culture." And how dare you feel free to act like a entire group of people are less worthy of our attention and concern because they happen to live in the ghetto. Your ugly, racist, classist arguments clearly paint you as a new breed of "white intellectual trash."

suz

Sun, 26 Mar 2006 19:33:44 -0500

Oh please! Am I supposed to talk the party line in order to be able to post here? No opposing views welcome? How openminded. I am very specifically talking about ghetto culture as opposed to blacks who are not ghetto. So I don't want to hear any bull about racism. I think my posts have made that clear. I don't care if that makes you uncomfortable. That's your hangup. Not mine.

Mike

Sun, 26 Mar 2006 18:30:38 -0500

Moderator, Could you please ban "suz" from posting? Thanks. Mike

suz

Sun, 26 Mar 2006 14:14:10 -0500

One last thing that hasn't been mentioned. If you live in a community (i.e. black ghetto) that is crime-ridden, unruly, undisciplined, and violent, your chances of being murdered are increased 10 fold (maybe more than that, but I am not here to provide statistics). People know that, and subconsciously or not, they just don't invest too much outrage or shock at each killing...because that's all they'd be doing all day long. There's an element of detachment, resignation, and desensitization involved. Whereas, it is more shocking and disturbing when someone is murdered when statistically, their chances of being murdered were low. It hits too close to home for most of us.

suz

Sun, 26 Mar 2006 13:57:18 -0500

New York City has a lot of colleges too. Not as many as Boston, but it's not chopped liver either. I was born and raised in New York City and Romona attended my alma mater. So I don't want to hear any tripe about how New York is some backwater joint that produces killers. I mean, really, New York City is the greatest city in the world, with a ton of culture...and if Ghetto can't emulate that, then fuck Ghetto. What can I say? Take yer marbles and go back to the nasty deep South and contemplate your existence over a bale of cotton.

suz

Sun, 26 Mar 2006 13:50:24 -0500

Trollette here: The only reason why mixed-race blue collar West Roxbury is considered "far and above" East Flatbush is because the people there work. Some of them actually moved up and beyond Roxbury, which is arguably just as ghetto-esque and nasty as East Flatbush. Imagine that! Please spare me the nonsense of Boston as a college town where the spirit of academia embraces one and all. So not true. I live here, so I know what I am talking about. Just ask white trash South Boston if it's the case. Roxbury and South Boston=trash city. Anyway, love how my points about ghetto culture being the bane and pariah of the US are ignored. That's who killed Romona and Imette. Black men from the ghetto who are the pink elephant on the carpet that people refuse to deal with. Keep making excuses for them and pointing to Ted Bundy and then wonder why white mainstream America is fed up with the whining. Yeah, I'm a troll alright. A troll who pays a dirtload of taxes to put these freaks in jail, pay for their mothers' welfare, and put cops on double shifts to protect the rest of us from these parasites. You bet your goddamn ass I have something to say about it. I'm just grateful that the whining is mostly relegated to forums like this because America has turned a deaf ear on bogus arguments concerning institutional racism.

mediabug

Sun, 26 Mar 2006 12:39:07 -0500

Suz, Wrong, wrong, and wrong. I'm not black, and I don't chase ambulances. Nope, sorry. And I don't need "pet victims" to feel better about myself. Sorry to disillusion you, since it probably would make you feel better if I was. Rev, I agree, about trollettes, but, sometimes I just can't resist.

mediabug

Sun, 26 Mar 2006 12:34:46 -0500

I didn't say she was from "privledge" now did I? I doubt Dominick Dunne is going to take up with this case anytime soon. I said her background is above and beyond that of Ms. Moores. http://crime.about.com/od/unsolved/p/stguillen.htm http://www.simmons.edu/shs/clinical/longwood.shtml This is Imette's background. Hmm, she live in a collge town, and she went to one of the oldest and most prominent school in Boston. Compare that to an immigrant from Guyana growing up in East Flatbush. I think both of these girls were wonderful human beings, that didn't deserve what happened to them. My main point was, about how the media treats stories. Please tell me where you get the idea that I don't blame the two animals who did this? Please quote one phrase of mine where this is stated. I went on to compare this type of crime to whites of varying social stratas. It has nothing to do with race or class, it has to do with sociopathy, lack of empathy, etc, etc, etc. Again, you are so intent on mischaracterizing everything ive written to suit your agenda. Oh, I know what trash is, and it includes "white trash" so what can I say. But, your statement is so far off the wall, it's beyond ridiculous. I think you're making excuses for those to continue to have race bias and racist attitudes. I think that Darryl Littlejohn, Troy Hendrix, Kayson Pearson deserve the exact same fate that their white counterparts Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer got, however, they're going to be allowed to live their lives.

rev pays

Sun, 26 Mar 2006 12:15:53 -0500

Please don't feed the trolls. Or, Trollettes.

suz

Sun, 26 Mar 2006 12:12:02 -0500

mediabug--I am curious. Are you black, or one of those ambulance chasing whites who makes themselves feel better by having a pet victim to pat on the head?

suz

Sun, 26 Mar 2006 12:06:16 -0500

I've said everything i"ve had to say about this. Why should I bother arguing with someone who views a Latina from a mixed race blue collar neighborhood as coming from privilege? How absurd. As for ghetto trash...Romona apparently was not that, but enough are to put a stigma on that poor girl. If you don't know what trash is, then what can I say? Are the vermin who killed her trash? Or are they just poor victims of racism who were driven to murder? The black ghetto culture is a pariah. A huge embarrassment to whites, and to any self-respecting black person. That culture is despised, and any amount of effort to guilt trip whites into thinking differently hasn't worked. It's only kept poor blacks enslaved to a crappy culture. When the ghetto starts valuing education and achievement, the tragedy will end. Until then, we despise you and disrespect you for your own unwillingness to improve yourselves.

mediabug

Sun, 26 Mar 2006 10:58:46 -0500

"So yeah, there is a human tendency to put less value on people like that. Until it became established that Romona Moore was an achieved young lady who was going somewhere, there was a perception that she was just another piece of ghetto trash who suffered at the hands of her own ." And you called me ignorant. What a laugh. This statement should be entered in the hall of shame for ignorance. Tell me what's a person "like that"? What are the "hands of her own" Huh. I never had the perception, nor do I that any black girl even from the worst neighborhoods are "ghetto trash" but, I guess some do.

mediabug

Sun, 26 Mar 2006 10:43:25 -0500

I don't believe some of us who are "jumping on the bandwagon" are whining; we are expressing an opinion. Something others here might want to debate intelligently, instead of criticizing with nothing to back them up. There are some of us who are genuinely upset at this. But, I fear there are others, who just don't want to believe that racism or race bias is alive and well in 21st century America. FYI: It was well-established at the beginning that Romona Moore was a young college student, which was the mother's issue with the police in trying to get an investigation going. She insisted that her daughter was a shy, studious girl, who wasn't the type not to come home. Perhaps you actually do some research on this case before you spew your venom with non-factual rhetoric. And your last statement seems to seems to reek of race bias. What does being a black perp have to do with this? And this case has nothing to do with the "glorification of the black ghetto" Your statement is out of left field at best. This case has to do with two sociopathic individuals. There are many people who grow up in bad neighborhoods that don't go on rape, torture, and mutilation sprees. Actually, that type of behavior is usually exhibited by white trash Europeon male types like John Wayne Gacy, Jeffrey Dahmer, and good old republican wanna-be Ted Bundy. Let's not forget the Hillside stranglers. Read any profiler's description of signature killers who mutilate and /or dismember their victims. In the case of the rich socialite, that case involed a prominent rich white male who was married to a pretty, light-skinned black woman. My guess is, if the rich husband was also black, that this story might not have gotten the coverage it did (which wasn't much btw). And you are comparing apples and oranges here. The whole argument is about the media and polices disportionate attention to cases involving whites vs blacks. As per "white liberals" support of "poor blacks" let me say, that I'm a white humanist, and I react to what strikes my heart not my political agenda.

mediabug

Sun, 26 Mar 2006 10:42:39 -0500

Imettes social status, was above and beyond the type of neighborhood that Romona came from. Trust me. I also saw as And I belive she was of mixed heritage, in which white was part of that, and I saw a lot of white faces at her funernal, not that who attends makes any difference to the media in terms of who she was. Talk about lack of facts, you go onto to make ignorant remarks about Romona's case. Please.

suz

Sun, 26 Mar 2006 10:03:08 -0500

One last comment about comparing this case to the Imette Guillen case. I have to laugh at the ignorance about Imette's background and assumed racism. She came from a blue collar background, she is Latina, and a huge percentage of the people who attended her funeral from her Boston neighborhood were black. Don't believe me? Check out the footage. Get your facts straight before whining.

suz

Sun, 26 Mar 2006 08:54:55 -0500

Let me clarify: I am not referring to Romona Moore's mother. She is speaking from grief and she is going to say what she is going to say. It's all the whiners who jump on the bandwagon with her. The truth is: poor whites and poor non-blacks of any type get less press too. Call it a middle-class and wealthy bias, but there is a perception, often based in truth, that certain groups come from an environment that is anarchical, unruly, undisciplined, etc--and therefore lends itself to violence. So yeah, there is a human tendency to put less value on people like that. Until it became established that Romona Moore was an achieved young lady who was going somewhere, there was a perception that she was just another piece of ghetto trash who suffered at the hands of her own . It's not race. It's cultural values and whether we perceive that the victim has any. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but it's the truth. Just last night Dateline had a program on this wealthy white man who murdered his black estranged wife, and finally got slammered after 19 years by a prosecution who wasn't going to let the case drop. It was pretty much a white jury. On top of that, I am starting to see black affluence all around on me and on the media, so enough with this garbage that blacks are poor little victims to be pitied by white liberals (what a sick relationship that is!). Why don't people turn their energy and their rage on black perps who should have never been born! They are a drag on our society and until the glorification of black ghetto identity gets replaced by a better set of values, including a respect for education, these people are screwed. Does anybody care????

mediabug

Sun, 26 Mar 2006 06:59:29 -0500

I agree with Maybelline's "white girl syndrome" I hope Elle Carmichael sues the pants off the NYPD, she has a pending suit filed in Brooklyn in 2004. For the poster who made the comment about someone whining, the woman lost her daughter, she has every right to whine, bitch, moan, vent and finger point. I believe the reason that cases like Imettes, Holloway, Jennifer Kresse, etc, are taken up by the media, is because they're all pretty, from middle-class families, they're educated, have good reputations, and white. Look at Useless Van Sustrens page on Fox news every picture there is of some white women who could pass as a model. Not one black face. Nada.

Ms. Maybelline

Sat, 25 Mar 2006 19:55:58 -0500

The infamous white girl syndrome strikes again. See Wikipedia for definition. Last Thursday's 20/20 also touched upon this issue. It's sad that in 2006 a black women is still not valued as much as a white woman. Why does race have to come into play?

rev pays

Sat, 25 Mar 2006 18:35:29 -0500

There's more people looking for Vivi the showdog than Ramon Moore.

Suz

Sat, 25 Mar 2006 16:39:41 -0500

Oh here we go again with the whining race card. Every time I hear that whine I wonder how much further ghetto culture has to sink before it finally hits bottom and implodes. Imette Guillen was not reported missing. Her body was found only hours after she died. There was never even time for her to go missing. Had her body not been found right away, the police would've said the same thing to her family as they did about Romona. It's standard policy for how to treat people who over the age of 16, I believe, who go missing. So let's clarify that before we continue on with the incessant whine. That said, I hope the freaks who tortured and killed Romona Moore live a life of hell for the next 50 years. Her death was as horrifying as Imette's, and it further resonates for me because she was a student at my Alma Mater. We feel the most sympathy with the people we can identify with. A commonality of some sort that we share. It's that simple. So are we going to sweep it under the carpet that these perps are all black? The glorification of the current black culture has been a bigger tragedy than slavery ever was. And slavery was sad!

mediabug

Sat, 25 Mar 2006 14:14:09 -0500

While i'm not sure i'd call it outright racism, I do feel, however, there may be some race bias. I do think race played a part in both how the media and police behaved on behalf of Ms. Moore. Take the case of Natalee Holloway, an attractive blue-eyed blonde from an upper middle-class family who had resources. It seemed that not even 2 days passed before a huge investigation was launched. Not just on the island of Aruba, but, American authorities, the FBI, and on and on. The media, notably, the useless Greta Van Sustren were on airplanes as though it were her daughter. Even now as the case is nearing it's one year anniversary, the media lap up every crumb thrown their way on this case. Now take the case of Romona Moore, first time I heard of her was when there was one daily news articles about the similarites. Romona's case was 3 years ago. I was very surprised to hear that such a case went reletively unnoticed seeing as how positively grusome it was. Now we have all these TH's, criminlogists, forensic experts come on tv talking about Imettes case, stating how it's "one of the most" or "the most grusome case they've seen in years", as though they never heard of Ms. Moore. Either they didn't know about it because of the pale media attention or it just didn't stand out in their minds for whatever reason. Both these girls, no doubt, suffered a horrible, unexplicable death, where the degree of "grusomeness" could hardly be measured. So, for anyone who thinks there wasn't some race, class, or other bias in this case, please tell me why one got more attention than the other. I recall reading Charles Hynes, Brooklyn DA, stating that in Imettes case "he's never seen so much forensic evidence in a case" Interesting that the NY times noted, that in Romona's case, there were rooms in the home of Pearson and Hendrix that weren't even looked at. Apparently, there was tons of forensic evidence in Romona's case, some of which got lost due to the "botched investigation" "As the trial of the two men accused of killing Ms. Moore has unfolded, the allocation of police resources has been on display. Defense lawyers pointed out lost evidence and searches in which investigators overlooked condoms, condom wrappers, chains, bloody tools and clothes stained with bodily fluids. On the witness stand, Detective John Cantone was forced to admit that he had left several rooms out of a crime scene sketch and marked north as south." http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/23/nyregion/23murder.html It's also entirely possible that they were more careful in Imette's case because of this one. Just to look at things from both sides. However, this NY times article does go on to say how the media and police seem to influence each other,so it could be that they weren't as active with one case than the other.

King Kong

Sat, 25 Mar 2006 03:05:49 -0500

I'm glad that the racism surrounding this case was pointed out, too. Yet, I'm not surprised that there are few comments regarding this case while the St. Guillen case drew many, many comments. Seems that the mirror held up to one's face provokes silence... From the NYTimes: " Three years ago, when Ms. Moore disappeared from the streets of East Flatbush, Brooklyn, the police at first declined to open a case, leaving her family to distribute fliers. The police notified the press after her body was found, misspelling her name. The news media hardly noticed, distracted by the disappearance of Svetlana Aronov, a 44-year-old rare-books dealer from the Upper East Side. In that case, still unresolved, the commander of Manhattan detectives held a news conference with a giant photograph."

rev pays

Fri, 24 Mar 2006 17:18:18 -0500

Guess the media didn't get any "leaks" from law enforcement regarding this case. From what I recall, and this case is 3 years old, she was a good student at Hunter College, another CUNY school. And, as PC Kelly mentioned she was 21 years old and a "emancipated minor" or whatever he said in the press conference and that's why they didn't do anything at the beginning. I also recall hearing she was beaten with a pipe. Again, don't quote me, this case is 3 years old.

homeopt

Fri, 24 Mar 2006 17:09:36 -0500

i just want the papers to stop selecting what information they give us. Let me make up my mind as to whether i want to care about someone or not. i'm glad that the racism of St Guillen came out. They were trying to make that bitch look like a saint prior to that.

not homeopt

Fri, 24 Mar 2006 16:55:40 -0500

homeopt, even if she had been a "crack whore" who had "tried to steal some product", she still didn't deserve to be tied up and raped.

homeopt

Fri, 24 Mar 2006 16:45:50 -0500

We already know that St. Guillen was a hardcore racist and therefore she is not deserving of sympathy but what's the deal with this girl? Anyone know her background ? I'm tired of being manipulated into feeling sorry for someone who may or may not desserve it. What if this girl was a crack whore who was killed because she tried to steal some product from these two guys ? The newspapers have to stop treating us like puppets.

ethos

Fri, 24 Mar 2006 16:44:08 -0500

I personally detest Charles Barron, but I'd be the first to help push for "Romona's Law," which would make it madatory for police to investigate a disappearance claim immediately if the victim is under 25 years of age. Not that I don't completely agree w/the above comments -- I just can't help but wonder if she might still be alive had the authorities taken the original claim more seriously.

anon.ny

Fri, 24 Mar 2006 16:21:07 -0500

"The family needs to redirect their anger to the killers, not the police department." Says you, but not me. Hendrix and Pearson are excellent examples of why women should be allowed to have abortions.

Samantha T

Fri, 24 Mar 2006 16:19:53 -0500

Whiskey Pete, I'm with you. Hope that guy has trouble sleeping absolutely every single night of his life because of this. It is disgusting. Peter, what's the deal with commenting on two dead girls' sexual appeal? Enough.

Whiskey Pete

Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:45:15 -0500

Perhaps the police could have responded quicker, but I would not call it racism. Calling it racism is the easy way out and deverting blame, essentially, the blame game. What's it called when a friend of the killers was invited to help rape, torture and kill Ramona Moore, but did nothing instead? He saw this woman, a fellow black woman, a fellow human, being raped and tortured—what did he do? he did nothing. He never called the police. HE DID NOTHING! While it's not called racism because he too is black, I would call him a fucking coward, a piece of shit self hating black man who should be behind bars with the killers for obstruction of justice. The family needs to redirect their anger to the killers, not the police department.

Peter

Fri, 24 Mar 2006 15:24:17 -0500

Ramona Moore's mother has come out and accused the police of racism for not pursuing the case with as much gusto as St. Guillen--While Moore is nowhere near as attractive as St. Guillen, the mother has a legitimate point considering it took the cops about 5 days to seriously respond to Moore's disappearance.