Speculation About Murder Suspect Continues

Sorry, no sympathy for this sicko from me. He is a violent criminal and "menace to society" according to his parole board which rightly refused to release him.

It was a great decision to publish the sicko's mugshot:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,187174,00.html

"[rape victim].. phoned police to tell them it appeared to be the vehicle in which she was raped, sources said.

The woman was attacked in Queens late last year, part of an apparent pattern of at least three rapes in which the victims all gave similar descriptions of their attacker."

"I'd prefer death penalty for the murderer."

If you kill people, the problem itself imbedded in society will never be solved and the culprit in the end won't learn a god damn thing. The point of the prison system is to punish and rehabilitate, not for the government or you to exact your style of brute vengeance.

But I agree so some extend. Sometimes prison like a revolving door for some criminals.

The prison system sucks, but there really are very few ways around it. By the time most criminals commit crimes, it's really well past the point of them being helped. I think that in many ways schools and othe institutions that people encounter early in life need to take a stronger/more-active role in indentifying potential problems than they already do.

And the death penality is something I'm against because all it really does is create a system in which there is truly no escape. While I understand the concept of the death penalty being a deterent, the reality is that if a criminal is facing the death penality they are painted into a corner. And when you get someone in a position like that they'll just say "Well, there's nothing else to loose so who cares..." And more violence is inspired.

And maisie, if you want to show your child the dangers out there I think that maybe a day-trip to the criminal courts might not be a bad idea. People's concepts of what a 'bad' person is often comes from preconceived notions that someone who 'looks' bad 'is' bad. When we all know that's not the case.

Heck, why can't high schools have 'field trips' to the criminal courts to see how the system works. At least a small glimpse. It's amazing to me that we shove out kids into home economics classes, but really pay short shrift to this darker--but much more real--aspect to the world.

I can assure you that making an apron in JHS (this actually happened) did not prepare me or my classmates for anything.

I'd better go bury my white socks...

They are linking a violent sex crime to a man who has had a history of crimes motivated by money?

There is just something that doesn't fit right here.

I think it's pretty obvious it was the bouncer. I always figured it wouldn't turn out to be random, but rather be someone she knew or some opportunist at the bar.

As for Veronika Belenkaya, have you read that article? How many times was she gonna say "Little did I know"? That's all I was thinking as I read it, because it was essentially a very boring article that didn't really offer any insight. She should've called her article "Littlejohn did I know?"

So she met the guy. So did a lot of people. I hope we're not gonna be reading lots of dumb articles by people saying, "oh my god, I also went out bar-hopping at 4am alone and met that bouncer!" as if they had a story. The only person's story that counts is Imette's. (or anyone else who was the victim of her killer).

"There is just something that doesn't fit right here."

Pezdro, exactly. There are two things that are still unanswered that people--in their rage to point fingers--seem to be ignoring.

One, the person who initially tipped off police as to where the body was dumped has not come forward and they still do not know who it is. I think all the discussion of the bouncer's cell phone records is making people forget that this tip to 911 came from a pay phone and they don't know who that is.

Two, it took the owner's of the bar (The Falls) initially told police one version of the events of the evening this incident happened. And then A WEEK LATER came clean and told them a completely different story... AFTER THE GOT A LAWYER.

What doesn't add up at all in this is that the owners of the bar took A WEEK to come clean about this. All things considered one would think the owners would just come straight out and say exactly what happened right away to distance themselves from the bouncer. It's not hard to do and given this guy's record, it doesn't seem like it would have taken too much had wringing for them to simply come clean to begin with.

I have no doubt this guy played a role in what happened, but I think in the rush to judgement people are blaming the easy target and simply ignoring the fact that there are two MAJOR issues with this case that have not been addressed as yet.

They should figure out what's happening, but anyone claiming that this case is simply cut-and-dry really haven't even read the most basic stories about the case.

Press reports are somewhat vague about the convictions of his earlier crimes. He has been convicted several times (armed bank robbery among other things) and he is on parole now so he did NOT "serve his time". I blame the liberal system for this.

In a just world, this guy had been locked up for the rest of his life.

"What doesn't add up at all in this is that the owners of the bar took A WEEK to come clean about this."

Well, it wasn't a full week. It took 4 days. I think the initial statements were given on Tuesday (don't forget, it wasn't until Monday that police even began investigating where Imette may have gone after the Pioneer bar). I think it is abominable that police were misinformed by Danny Dorrian and possibly other workers at the bar, but he probably contacted lawyer Wednesday (after initial reports of his lies were given), and then by Saturday, the lawyer contacted police with straight story. 4 days is too long, but it's not a week.

Laura, thanks for the info. But no matter how you cut it, there's something weird about what happened. And something strange about the person who made the 911 call not coming forward.

Especially since the police immediately knew where the call was made from. And one can assume the phone and nearby areas were checked for prints and such.

If this guy did play a role in all of this, he should be punished for his role in this. But the thing simply does not add up at all.

I didn't know that complying with the Constitution = radical liberalism.

Sicko? He's done some armed robbery stints. Trust me, He's probably taken less money then your average Enron Executive.

Deng, when he actually gets arrested for the crime that you have already convicted him for, can you then start talking about how evil our LIEbral world is?

That would be awesome.

There is something odd about it I agree, Jack, but it also could be that Danny Dorrian just didn't think his bouncer had anything to do with it, and didn't want police looking into the bouncer further given that he was, I guess, not a legal hire; at the same time, Danny could have been scared that the bouncer did have something to do with it - scared of what a violent murderer may do to him if he learned in the press that he was pinpointed by his boss as the last guy to be seen with her, scared (and feeling guilty) of what his own liability would be given that he essentially put her into the bouncer's hands and hadn't followed up on the commotion he later heard. So, while we all may think that we'd be upfront about everything, sometimes we convince ourselves that something is a little white lie that protects our interests and doesn't really affect anything else, when, in fact, it does. He could have rationalized his lie by believing that whether she got onto the sidewalk by herself, or by being 'escorted' by both of his bouncers, either way, whatever happened to her happened after anything to do with The Falls...so why bring all this focus onto his bar.
Or, maybe when leaving the bar later he comes upon Littlejohn murdering or raping the woman and he joins in, or, if she's already dead and because he's into other criminal activities with Littlejohn (drug dealing?) he cooperatively makes it look sadistic, etc, and he gets some stuff from the basement and Littlejohn is given the pleasant duty of disposing the body, etc.

The facts will come out, so we're wasting time speculating

I don't know if Anal Man was being sarcastic or not, but I only made the distinction between 4 days and 7 because Jack had put "week" in capital letters twice in his post.

Nice segue from a local crime to George Bush and the Supreme Court. Evidence of Godwin's Law is imminent.

Littlejohn did get "parole" but his sentences were ending. I think there is a mandated parole that cuts sentences short a few months (a la Joel Steinberg). There are probably reasons for this law but in fact it does seem misguided, and what's at the root of Deng's complaints.

Having said that, your use of the word "liberal" to mark your complaints against the sentencing guidelines is pretty misguided. This is a pretty liberal town, despite everything today, and I haven't seen too many people who would want this guy on the street. So that's innaccurate.

There is always a temptation to take "bad people" and just throw them away and go on with our lives. It's easy, it's conveinent, it's fun and the whole family can play. But it's not justice. You have justice when both sides work, a zealous prosecution and a vigorous defense. That's what bothers me about many posts, which take on either a "well, if he isn't guilty of this he's guilty of something" tone or a "goddamned liberals, if they had their way their wouldn't be any jails at all" line.

Neither holds a shred of truth, and both, frankly are dangerous to our system, which, despite its flaws, has yet to be improved upon in the world (and that from a liberal).

If we're going to be the "good people" then we have to act like it. Which means we don't take our ethics and flush them when its more convenient to throw someone away. Just because you've never broken a law does not give you the right to mob rule.

Look, if this guy did it, and Imette was my sister, I'd want to shoot him fifteen times and beat him up with the gun. I'd want to beat him to within an inch of his life and then nurse him back to health so I could beat him up all over again. That's what makes me human. But it's also what wouldn't make me a good juror.

The cops are obviously going somewhere with this. We're right to follow, but let's leave the torches and pitchforks at home for a little while.

BOYCOTT Dorrian's and & The Falls:
The people who work at The Falls lied to the police and witheld crucial information about Imette St. Guillen-- giving the suspect days to destroy evidence. What sane human being would do that--choose making money over a human life??? If we are compassionate human beings, we would not frequent a bar that does nothing to protect it's customers, that instead chooses to protect their precious liquor license & cash registers!
PLEASE BOYCOTT The Falls and the other bar owned by the same people, Dorrian's (on East 84th steet). The owners are despicable and should not be in business. As I see it, the owners of these bars will serve young women alcohol and allow them to die after getting them drunk.

At least Imette would be alive with that kind of law. But that's not what you want to hear, is it?

Tempting as it may be, you can't throw someone in jail for being a "menace to society." Some people think conservatives are "menaces to society"... can we throw them in jail, too?

If Littlejohn is guilty then I think it is fair to blame Littlejohn for Imette's death.

Also, you may notice that the guy is, in fact, in jail at this moment for moonlighting as a bouncer.

Anyway, as my grandfather would say, que basta.

I am totally down with a boycott of Dorrian's haunts. Anyone who would put his concern for his liquor license ahead of finding this girl's killer is not going to get my Jack Daniels money. If people put as much energy into this as they do into blaming the crime on their misperceived view of society we may be able to affect some good.

it's great news for ex-convicts to know that they can get jobs as mortgage lenders with rap sheets as long as littlejohn's.

Pezdro:

"They are linking a violent sex crime to a man who has had a history of crimes motivated by money?

There is just something that doesn't fit right here."

you're kidding right? or did you just get to earth? welcome on behalf of me and my fellow earthlings.

it's not the past crimes he has commited that link him to this particular crime, it's the evidence that is building up against him in this particular crime. his past rap sheeet certainly does not help, being that HE IS A VIOLENT MAN and has been convicted of VERY violent crimes in the past. i.e. armed robbery, drug and gun possession. slashing a man, bank robbery... shit... do you honestly believe that because he hasn't killed in the past that he cannot kill at all? as i have said in previous posts, rape and murder were the next rung on the ladder for this piece of shit.

abc girl,

you complain that "the owners of these bars will serve young women alcohol and allow them to die after getting them drunk."

At this point, the known boycott-worthy wrongdoings by The Falls ownership and management are the lies to police about how Imette left the bar, and their bouncer hiring practices. It is NOT that they serve young women alcohol, nor that they boot young women from the bar with a bouncer when they're drunk and refuse to leave after closing time. The same would have been done to a man.

Lots of young women go to bars and deliberately get drunk so they must enjoy it; there's no crime in that and there's no crime in a business being set up to facilitate it.

Most unfortunately, Ms. St. Guillen made many poor decisions that night (the last of which, according to the Boston Globe today, was getting into a vehicle with a man she had just met) which made her grossly vulnerable to a violent killer, and which she may not have made had she not been drinking, but that was her choice.

100% of the responsibility and fault of her murder lies with the killer; none lies with her and none lies with those who served her the alcohol she wanted.

edex, previously police investigations into him suggest he may have previously killed - he was previously investigated for "death-row" worthy murder for hire killings.

i say string him up and watch him swing

I say:

1) Wait for the DNA analysis of the skin under her fingernails and bodily fluids.
2) Wait for the DNA analysis of the cat hairs.
3) Wait for the voice analysis of the 911 call.
4) Wait for a total check of the van for evidence of Imette's presence.
5) Listen to his story about why he was in the location of her body around the time it was dumped and what alibi's he may have.

Did I miss anything? Also, it makes sense to keep the prime suspect at Riker's until this investigation goes further and swings one way or the other. If CSI has taught us anything it's that the forensic evidence will make or break the case.

Jack, what do you do for a living that gives you so much time to post here?

Give me a paper clip, a box of tic tacs, and a used durex condom...

And I’ll find the killer your looking for.

Geez, is there some way that we can forward all these comments to the 75th police precinct for review?

I have no doubt that the 75th would greatly appreciate all the help.

The system is broken. He should have been serving very long, if not life sentense for all the crimes he commited. Yet he was free. He possibly worked for the mob, killing people, likely raped three women, and yet he was free. Of course, liberals are concerned that his reputation may be tarnished with the posting of his mugshot. Unbelievable!

Why is there no "three strikes law" in NY? Any particular reason?

I hope he gets fried. He should have been aborted altogether; by the way, his mother is in mental institution. He must have some excellent genes! What about his father? Likely another violent refuse.

Also, the guy is said to have three kids - with such heredity, they would make some "upstanding" citizens, hailing from the botton-of-the-barrel gene pool as they do.

"Also, the guy is said to have three kids - with such heredity, they would make some "upstanding" citizens, hailing from the botton-of-the-barrel gene pool as they do."

Nice to see the 'non-trolls' of Gothamist condoning lynching and now banging the drumhead against this guy's kid.

Nice to see the quest for 'justice' for some is filled with bias, prejudice and plain out racism.

"2) Given the hesitance of the bar to provide information, it's possible they were paying him in cash..."

holy cow! mislead and impead a homicide investigation because you're paying someone under the table? that's the least of mr. dorrians problems...

"1) There aren't that many places open at 3am...Hell, I didn't know the Falls was open and I've lived near here a long time."

hmmm...true.true dat.

Wow so turns out he is the killer and slso the serial rapist whos been grabbing women in vans over the city.

Well I hope he gets sodomized and bitch slapped everyday for the rest of his life in jail.

Great! Just for giggles, you should all check out the response that will be on Craigslist's Missed Connections and Women for Men sections. Should be hilarious!

Just when I figured I'd overcome the stereotypes about dangerous black dudes, some ex-con ruins it for the lot of us.

More on this "innocent, until proven guilty":

Gang probe into Littlejohn now with new judge
http://news.bostonherald.com/stGuillenMurder/view.bg?articleid=129653

Liberal jews must find another "discriminated victim" to cheer and root for...

I wonder what those idiots who were saying that "somethong's not right here" would say now?

Oh My, looks like the blanket belongs to his Auntie:
Fromt he Post http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/62944.htm
"Police were probing a tip that the flower-print blanket in which St. Guillen was found wrapped was spotted at a Queens dialysis center where Littlejohn’s aunt goes for treatment."

* Cops hauled two trash bags from The Falls – and were overheard talking about two computer “towers” and a hard drive.

* A man in Jamaica, Queens, told The Post that his sister-in-law was stalked by Littlejohn about two months ago.

“He followed my sister-in-law in a gray or light-blue van. He followed her for four blocks,” said José De La Rosa, 22. “He kept telling her, ‘Get in the car. Get in the car!’ She said, ‘Leave me alone.’

“He wouldn’t stop pursuing her. She called me and I went over with two guys. We gave him a cold stare and he left. Who knows what he is capable of?”

* In a setback to investigators, DNA recovered from underneath St. Guillen’s fingernails did not match Littlejohn’s, sources said.

Forensic tests showed the tissue had come from a woman and perhaps was St. Guillen’s.

* A homeless woman who sleeps in the park across from the bar told police yesterday she saw St. Guillen get into a dark van with Littlejohn early Feb. 25.

“He pulled in around the side and then he went to get her. He put her in slowly. She was staggering a little,” said Lorraine House.

Police had not determined if House’s account is credible.

I'm not sure which part of your response I should dissect first, since it's rare that I encounter such moronic diatribes. I'll just assume that your words are evidence of a poor attempt at sarcasm or some mental disorder.

Laura,
You sound like the type that would keep drinking at The Falls. This is not about who's fault it is. Dorrian failed to protect a female customer. Dorrian states that Immette was inebriated, then he sent her off with their ex-con bouncer to be thrown out of the bar at closing time: even after hearing arguing and a muffled scream, Dorrian did nothing to check out the situation. Then to add insult to injury Dorrian "forgets" to tell the police and "suddenly" remembers these details days later. Yes, you keep drinking there, and I hope you get home alive...

ABC -

Dorrian acted criminally by witholding critical info from the police and hampering their investigation. They were criminally negligent in employing a con w/a violent record. I hope they are prosecuted and run out of business for these offenses.

I just don't believe they are legally obligated to make sure that every drunk woman in their bar gets home okay. Tragically, Imette resisted even her friend's efforts to get her home safely. Recent reports indicate that Dorrian had two bouncers make her leave, so it wasn't just Littlejohn. Unfortunately, it seems she continued standing around talking with Littlejohn even as other employess got into cabs to go home. Is Dorrian supposed to force her into a cab against her will?

Her killer is 100% responsible for her horrible death; she is innocent. Dorrian is responsible for impeding the investigation of her death - he is not any more responsible for her death than she is.

Oh, by the way I rarely drink and definitely DON'T go to bars. Someone who looks to a bar to protect them from the effects of alcohol is naive.

Far be it from me to feed a real troll...

'Jack, where do you see "racism", "bias" and such? Is that all you can do - throw around those words?'

Mea culpa. You sound like a reasonable, level-headed.. Wait...

'That black whose "reputation" you have been protecting is vile animal."'

Yeah. You're DEFINITELY not a racist. Oh, I mean you ARE a racist.

Either your posts are brilliant example of irony/sarcasm or they are bad examples of a joke... At best. The reality is that there are definitely prejudiced people contributing to threads on this topic. And the so-called 'trolls' have no problem calling it as they see it.

ABC -
I don't disagree with you about Dorrian et al being really callous, tossing out a young woman at 4am, w/no regard to her safety. As for the muffled scream - we don't really know how it sounded - and Imette was standing on the sidewalk talking to Littlejohn after the "scream".

Working in a bar like that probably hardens you. Drunk people are often loud, annoying and melodramatic and I guess you could just become contemptuous of them altogether.

But I do understand your frustration w/the bar. There are a lot of "If only.." about that night.