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Is this a break? The police have questioned a bouncer at The Falls yesterday, as well as conducted more investigations at the 218 Lafayette Street bar and restaurant over the weekend, as they try to solve the murder of graduate student Imette St. Guillen. The NY Times calls the bouncer a "potential suspect," and the NY Post says that the bouncer is a "hardened criminal still on parole for a robbery rap." While the Post seems to be hyperbolic, they also claim that the 41 year old man's cellphone was traced to the Belt Parkway and packing tape and wires - similar to what St. Guillen was found tied with - were found on the basement of The Falls. The Daily News says that there's a "secret doorway" at the restaurant, and that may have been used in the crime. And get this: Geraldine Ferraro's family owns the building, and she tells the News, "[The police] went into the basement, they went on the roof, they went upstairs to the second floor. We allowed them total access to anything that they wanted to see."
The police did get a warrant to search the bar, though the police's spokesman wouldn't explain why the search was taking place over a week after the murder. Neighbors tells the NY Times that the offices above The Falls never seemed busy. The Post's story is the most comprehensive with police source leaks and conjecture (" But cops now believe that the bouncer likely tried to have sex with the inebriated young woman and, when she resisted, he panicked and killed her."), but the bouncer, Darryl Littlejohn, called the Daily News to say he was being harrassed: "I'm not taking away what happened to this lady and not to play the race card, but you are singling out the only black guy."
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Didn't the Falls location used to be an restaurant called Cascabel that was a pet project of Geraldine Ferraro's son, you know, the one busted for coke dealing at Middlebury in 1986?
this is crazy stuff-- i've been to the falls dozens of times, so i'm sure i've seen that bouncer. i wonder if he really did it-- that would sure explain the fact that she seems to have disappeared right after she left the bar (perhaps she went right upstairs), and that she was never seen again (but then, how did they get the body out of the bar's basement?)
it's too bad cats can't talk-- b/c there was reputed to be one in the basement, and cat hairs were found on the blanket-- so the cat might be the only eyewitness.
does anyone else remember the bouncer acting weird?
No and No.
They're just sweatin him.
but seriously-- seems like it wouldn't be too hard to rule him in or out. the daily news reported there was skin under the victim's fingernails, and the police have already asked one person who worked at the bar to disrobe to prove he doesn't have scratches-- seems like if the bouncer wants to clear his name, all he has to do is do a quick strip and give a DNA sample.
and since he's an ex-con, he might not even have to do that-- if his fingerprints and DNA is already on file, the police could just match or clear him based on that.
"Uh, not to play the race card, but allow me to play the race card."
Maybe the police are "prejudice" against ex-cons. He should have played the ex-con card.
This bouncer had a rap sheet a mile long. I guess these places don't do background checks on their bouncers. Supposedly it's hardly uncommon for a lot of bouncers to have problems with the law. A lot of these steroid-enhanced, muscle goons seem to relish abusing their authority.
anon does have a point-- does the owner of the bar have an obligation not to employ violent felons in a position of authority at the door? after all, a bouncer is put in a lot of situations that demand a certain level of responsibility-- dealing with drunk patrons, tossing people out, breaking up fights, etc. not exactly a job you want to give someone with a history of armed robbery.
and you lawyers-- a question: if it does turn out that the guy did it, can the family sue the bar for contributing to her wrongful death?
Jumping to conclusions can be a mistake, but I say you can put your money on this being the guy. He's the only known convict in the bar that night, he was the last person seen with Imette, and he is placed in East New York, the most remote area of NYC, 2 hours after Imette disappeared. It's nowhere near his home or even on the way. Oh yeah, it's also where Imette's body was dumped.
I don't know guys. I'm not saying either way, but it is a leap from "armed robbery, bank robbery, drugs and grand larceny" to straight-up psycho killing. She was raped, he's a felon: check the DNA.
Jack Dorrian, owner of the Falls, is also the owner of Dorrian's on the UES, part of the 1986 "Preppy Murder."
DNA tests will take a while.
an interesting side note to the case is that he seems to have been placed at the murder scene using only his cellphone-- and it doesn't sound like he even placed a call. that is, the phone company was able to get a pretty accurate location on him just by searching their database of tower pings.
all future criminals take note: leave your cell phones at home!
Does anyone know how far it is from where the murderer dumped her and the Falls? It is such a brutal murder. Plus, it is odd how far he took it and not to have even a rape charge in his background, well it just puzzles me.....and scares the crap out of me!
"But cops now believe that the bouncer likely tried to have sex with the inebriated young woman and, when she resisted, he panicked and killed her."
So, he panicked, killed her, and then raped her? Or are they gonna start saying she wasn't raped at all now? Is this where the story will start to change to make the "evidence" fit?
Well, being a woman, I found it hard to believe Imette sent her friend home and hung around drinking alone unless she had plans to wait for someone.
Most women wouldn't do that. Most women want someone to either go home with or walk to the subway or hail a taxi with if they're going home alone at 4am. Maybe she was waiting for the bouncer, who might be a charming guy when he puts his mind to it? Who knows.
If it was the bouncer, maybe he'll turn out to be a serial rapist and a few other crimes will be solved. I can't believe that was a one time thing. It was done too carefully.
I'm not scared. I just think we all have to be super careful in this city, especially when we have a few drinks in us.
I agree, newyorkette. What makes it more complicated is that she sent her friend home from the Pioneer Bar, so was she planning to meet someone at the Falls?
To answer # 13's question, the body was dumped on the southeastern edge of Brooklyn, 7+ miles from The Falls and in a remote area. If the cell-tower triangulation does indicate the bouncer held still at the dump site that night, I imagine the cops will want him to have good explanation of why he was there. But if it just places him at the site rather than at the site for any particular length of time -- then he could have been one of thousands of people driving along the parkway there.
(And yes, for criminals & anybody else! -- do not leave your cell phone on unless want your physical location to be very easily connected to your phone #.)
I'm amazed some people are already leaving comments that assume "the bouncer did it."
It should be mentioned to those who don't know our city, that at 4am in bar area it is hopping out on the street. I have left a bar and restaurant without my friends many times....You just walk out to the street corner and hail a cab. I haven't ever felt like I was in danger doing this. I can't imagine this girl walking seven blocks to another bar in the cold, passing up other bars on the way, if she didn't think she was meeting someone there. Something must tie her to that bar...Especially to stay there after your friend has gone home.
Ok...just found out that the bouncer lives four minutes from dump site. He did it! Too many coincidences now for it to be someone else. The cops better start looking into his past because I will bet big money he has killed before!!
That's what I'm saying. We're talking about someone she knew. Not just met that night. You don't walk 7 blocks on a chilly night at 4 a.m. to meet someone you're not excited about.
How bout instead of assuming where the bouncer lives and where the body was found, someone used Google earth?
Like many posters here even know where these places are?
East NY is not remote, it used to be a predominantly Italian neighborhood till they moved out. Some business still remain.
Actually, I did check Google Earth. There's no houses on that stretch of Fountain Ave. And in fact, it is an old Mob burial ground (probably has nothing to do with this, but it shows how desolate it is).
The not-going-home-with-the-girlfriend angle of this has always bothered me. One story I heard is that Imette argued with her friend, who wanted to go home, to stay out with her as they were leaving the Pioneer. It was never reported why Imette wanted to stay out, but I have a hard time believing she wouldn't tell her friend, especially if she wanted her to go with, at least for a while. Chances are the cops asked her why Imette wanted to stay out, she told them she was meeting someone at The Falls who got off at four, and that the friend didn't want to walk the distance at 3 on a cold night. So she gets in a cab. Then she feels guilty and calls, hoping she got to The Falls okay. Imette answers, says I'm cool, the friend stops worrying thinking she's met whoever she's looking to meet.
This explains a lot. It also explains the sudden focus of the investigation on the The Falls and the building its in. Now the question is: who worked at The Falls who she was going to meet? Was it the bouncer? Was it someone else who stood her up, leaving her out there alone? Someone offers to drive her home and then she's lost?
You can learn a lot watching Law and Order. Stay tuned...
most club and bars in nyc do not employ bouncers themsleves. they use outside security firms. these security firms are responsible for legitimizing security personel not the bars or owners. it's red tape and it's bs, but i bet you will find more often than you'd like to think, a lot of security personel are ex cons or petty criminals. i went to FIT here in the city and i can tell you for sure some of the security guards were ex cons. it's a scary fact, but it happens and it sucks!
if the bar did know this guy is an ex con, they're in a shitload of trouble with the law and civil suits... but are they? who decideds whether an ex con can work at a bar or a club... or even an ad agency?
i'm willing to bet either this "race card player/the bouncer" or someone else at this bar commited this horrific crime.
Well, the area around the bar may be hopping at 4am, but a girl doesn't usually stay out late and drunk alone intending to go home alone at 4am. That's all I'm saying. On a normal night, it's a sad and lonely thing to do, nobody likes doing that. I don't see a goodlooking, smart, popular woman doing such a desperate thing. And like we've noted, she walked 7 blocks away to another bar. To me, that says she was planning on meeting someone.
Nobody's mentioned something I read on the second day after, that she was alone at one bar (can't remember which now), pulled out a piece of paper, looked at it, put it back and left. That's what made me suspect she was meeting someone.
The only reason I can think of for a girl to send her friend home without her late at night and stay at a bar totally alone is that she was going to hook up with someone she was embarrassed to tell her friend about, either an ex or a louche character she somehow fancied.
Maybe she got stood up by whoever she was supposed to meet, got drunk and depressed and careless, and got attacked by an opportunist, whether a regular or an employee, or a stranger. But I favor the idea that it was someone who knew her.
In any case, no matter how safe I feel, I'm always careful. And frankly, I'd rather take the subway than a cab. I always make sure to take the subway when it's crowded with people going home from their restaurant jobs, too tired to look for trouble. I've had way too many freaky cab drivers, and noting a nameplate won't help me if I'm dead.
While these are obviously all guesses, I think there's some good psychological insight here. I like The Falls a lot, but it's just an average mellow/nice place -- not especially hot, not a "destination," and definitely not something you just stumble on (since it's surrounded by restaurants... it's actually the only bar/lounge on any side of the triange that's made of Lafayette, Cleveland Place & Kenmare). I would definitely agree with the guess that she wanted to go there specifically, to meet someone or other.
Someone above said, "will the story change to fit the evidence"?
Are you on this case or are you reading what the newspapers print? The story hasn't really changed, use your noggin'. She either went willinglly or was kidkanpped, whether she resisted sex or not, she was alledgedly raped, tortured and then killed and dumped to "hide the evidence". Evidence which according to reports was found in the basement of the second bar.
As for the bouncer being an ex con, from "armed robbery, bank robbery, drugs and grand larceny" it would be natural at this point for him to possibly be violating his parole by taking drugs or drinking (my guess) and in the order of crime, rape and murder where/are next on his list of accomplishments.
whether he did it or not, with a wrap sheet as long as his why is out on parole in the first place?
If he's innocent, you're an asshole.
It couln't be this guy. This a whiteboy crime. Black people go to jail for stealing pizza slices. White People go to jail for eating the fingers off children after sauteeing them with garlic.
and if he's not, are you the asshole in return?
The guy most probably has raped many women, 90% of rapes go unreported because women are embarrased to tell anyone or fear of being blamed.
Just because he was never caught raping does not mean he is not a rapist. Many rapists rape throughout their entire lives and are not caught. It is the most unreported crime....
BTW cell phone records show he was 2 blocks away from Imettes dumped body. GUILTY!
I think you're talking about frat boy style date rape with the roofies. Not this type of murder/rape.
Those college type acquantince rapes probably are the unreported ones.
C'mon, how many UES or UWS rapists where the guy went through a window went unreported? Especially if the perpetrator was Black.
People have short memories.
Fact is 90% of all rapes of any kind go unreported, no matter who comiited the act.
I wasn't talking about murder/rape, just rape.
Hey, assh*le who made the white/black comment. Go fall off a bridge. You're existence isn't helping anyone. Remember when everyone said there was NO WAY the DC sniper was black, that he was such a sicko he had to be white?
I DID, what's it to you?
You like Hamburger?
Lots of great speculation about this one. I thought I recall the original story mentioning that she was gangra*ed, which might explain the panicked 911 cell phone call. I recall that nuance from the original story. It is possible that a few guys were thinking that they would have fun with this girl but she didn't go along with it, or she panicked once she was drunk. If the owner of the bar asked her to leave, chances are that she was both sloppy drunk and probably behaving a bit like most sloppily drunk girls in this city do. This likely led to some man or men attempting to be opportunistic.
Then again, it could have been a cab driver or two. Who knows?
I am partial to the story that places the bouncer with an accomplice in a situation that started in a friendly, flirtatious manner but quickly spun out of control. I have seen far too many girls who are her "type" friendly up to burly bouncer-types and flirt with them without really knowing much about these guys. The girls are usually thinking one thing and the guys are usually thinking of another. The difference is that these guys are used to getting their way by virtue of their size.
I don't want to jump to a final conclusion without more facts, since too many black men get falsely accused of murder and other violent crimes.
I'm starting to think that maybe this guy was in a scenario the poster tagged as "King Kong" describes.
If the bouncer is the one who tipped off the police, it wreaks of guilt about something getting out of hand or out of control. Maybe he hooked up with friends at some point and they wrested her from his control and went crazy on her?
Anyone want to speculate that the bouncer was most likely a catalyst but not the ultimate cause of all of this?
I think it's pretty solid that he was there and involved in some indirect way. But I don't feel the bouncer is the murderer. Most likely covering up for someone...
Whenever a case like this develops quickly, there are a slew of varying details and stories about the information known. I read one article that said cell phone records placed the bouncer 2 blocks from the body dumping site, while another said that it placed him on the Belt Parkway near the scene.
There's a good NY Times article ( http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/07/nyregion/07dead.html?_r=1&oref=slogin ) that says his cell phone was tracked to the area by his house in Queens and later in the morning to East New York near the dump-site. This is still circumstantial evidence; however, if all this turns out to be accurate, it seriously implicates this guy.
At any rate, I'll be tuning in when the Law & Order SVU episode based on this comes out in, like, 2 weeks.
Yep, it's just a really sad thing but I hope that people remember that NYC is not the Disney for adults that Giuliani and Bloomberg would prefer us to believe. It is still a gritty town (albeit with a veneer of class) where people are all striving for something. Sometimes, that striving plays itself out in very animalistic ways and seemlingly innocent people get hurt. Not trying
to sound too philosophical about the whole thing, but NYC has a way of reminding its residents to respect the danger lurking underneath the covers of the romantic and energetic landscape. Whether it's an actress being shot on the LES, a dancer being killed by a jealous lover, some college kids OD'ing on bad heroin, or a grad student being tortured and murdered after a night of drinking - this is not a place for the naieve.
I just hope that the NYPD detectives will have the right combination of courage, smarts, and luck to crack the real case here.
Some places I'd start checking if they haven't -
Hotel/motel records within a radius of the dumping site and the suspect's home (after accounting for driving times)
The victim's email accounts and phone records - especially checking for online dating information, along with the medical history and toxicology report (a good idea to develop a profile of the victim rather than simply focusing on the perp, here)
Released prison buddies of the suspect (possible that they may still hang together or he owed them a favor)
...and any other points that may relate to a hypothesis that makes the suspect an accomplice but not the perp.
Then again, I'm no detective.
Could she have been drugged at the bar?
Just a thought about the female victim being unknowingly drugged by the predator(s) at the bar. Was this checked out in the autopsy?