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As usual, Thursday morning finds us trolling the Stuyvesant Town Peter Cooper Village Tenants Association bulletin boards, looking for tasty morsels of real estate gossip. Today's find was a doozy-- one of the tenants posted a note asking for people to anonymously post their rents, and a frenzy of revelation ensued:
I'm paying nearly $2600 for a renovated one-bedroom on a high floor.I am paying $3,200 for a 2br and wondering what I might expect in terms of a lease renewal this spring....
Our rent for a 2B/2BA in PCV went up from 3235 (2005) to 3650 (2006) with an option for another year at 3775 (2007). From what I hear, every rent is going up 15% this year.
I'm in a Stuy Town 2 bedroom, relatively high floor. I came in last march at $2645. This year my renewal is $2900 or $2970+/- for two years.
For a renovated one bedroom on a low floor, my rent has gone from $2,185 to $2,600 for one year lease or $2,675 for two year lease
I signed a 1yr lease for a 1BR in PCV in April. I'm on the ground floor on 1st avenue and the rent was 2195. I knew it was a good deal and I asked if the rent would just be jacked up in the next year. Of course they said no. I got the renewal letter for 2700 and 2780 for a 2yr. lease. That's over 20% which is outrageous just on principle.
My increase is from $2600 to over $3000. Our school district also sucks. I can't afford a rent increase and private school. Now I have to move. Why bring us in, only to squeeze us out a few years later?
Warning: gripe ahead! Is it just us, or do you think that anyone who pays $3000 to live in Peter Cooper Village is a collosal freaking moron? The area east of 1st Avenue above 20th Street is a barren hinterland devoid of easy subway access and normal ameneties. The buildings themselves are utilitarian post-war projects, for godsakes! Furthermore, it's REDONKULOUS that the owners of these buildings have turned what was supposed to be low and medium-income housing into a cash cow. Ewww ewww ewww!
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dude:
rent regulation has a $2,000 cap. anything above that, and the fun is over.
We just had a nice couple from Peter Cooper look at our 2BR/2Bath Co-op in Great Neck that is for sale (Yes Long Island-most of our friends in the building are rent escapees from the Upper East Side).
I happened to mention I could have gotten in 2 years early back in 1992 but passed. Then they informed me that rent-control was over so they were looking to move to Long Island now and still be close to midtown by train.
The higher the rents go in NYC, as long as there are people willing to pay, the higher the value of my Long Island Co-op will go...
The point of having the cap is to remove an apartment from the rent regulation rolls, and to permanently phase out rent regulation altogether. The cap will never change.
I checked out Stuy town over a year ago, and the prices were okay for what they were. They included all utilities, and had easy access to the East Village.
My only gripes were that this one broker we were dealing with was a total bitch. We even offered to pay the whole year up-front, and like Jake said before, there wasn't access to any subway lines other than the L (which is terrible as it is).
My father worked at Stuy Town for 30 years and never got me on The List!
Of course, I never thought to ask.
www.forgotten-ny.com
Actually, it's way under market.
Take a look at the apartments:
www.pcvst.com
I pay 3000 for a 2-br in Stuy Town with a 12x15 room and a 12x18 living room. Huge and renovated and still under market rent.
It's 6 mini-blocks to the L, and across the street/down the block from the M15.
If you think this is too much for what it is, you haven't looked at apartments in the past year.
I'd love to see an entire blog devoted to just New York anonymous rent postings. I was in a two bedroom village walk-up. When I first got in, I was paying $1500 (in 2000). By 2005, the rent went up to $2100, which I couldn't afford so I left. I also knew that because of the rent regulation $2000 cap, the next price increase in a year or two was likely to be outrageous. The price I left at may sound like a deal to some people, but think about it, I was on the 8TH FLOOR of a walk-up, and the building is old and poorly cared for (bad plumbing, dirty, etc.). I started feeling stupid for paying for what I was getting. I swung by to hang out with an old neighbor in that building and I hear that the apt. went for $2600 to two roommates.
Curbed had this yesterday:
http://www.curbed.com/archives/2006/02/22/grumbles_in_stuy_town_rent_hikes_free_zagat_surveys.php
I moved into a 2 bed 2 bath in Peter Cooper Village in December and am paying $3975 for a high floor unit near 1st (floor level and proximity to 1st are the only two factors in how they price the units...). Here's my take.
Pros:
- Big apartment for the money, even at my rent. 20 x 20 living room, two real bedrooms (11 x 14 and 14 x 14), two real full bathrooms (no acrobatics required)
- Brand new kitchen (tags on the stainless steel appliances) and brand new marble bathrooms
- Newly re-finished floors
- New paintjob, done in colors you request for a small fee
- New shades on windows, three brand new air conditioners, etc.
- No broker fee, and no BS of running around the city chasing after apartments that vanish in an instant
- Great grounds, with new playgrounds, etc (we have a 10 month old daughter - which was the main reason we had to move out of our old place)
- We're in Manhattan, and have easy cab access to the whole island, which was important to us
Cons:
- Amazingly loud inside for a concrete building. We hear our neighbors all the time, especially from upstairs.. a big diappointment in this regard
- First Ave. in that area SUCKS, and though we're relatively close to Union Square and the village(s), it feels like we're surrounded by a perimeter of nothingness..
- Far from the subway, but not really a big deal to get to the 6 if you don't mind walking ten minutes (which I don't).
All in all, not a bad situation given the ridiculousness of rents in Manhattan in general, though the jury's still out on whether we'll renew next year. I feel the rent I'm paying now is reallly the absoulte max for what anyone should be paying for PCV. It's still clearly not a "luxury" situation, and in my mind anything over $4K should be just that - have a doorman, etc.
Reading this makes it obvious that all the smart people are in the outer boroughs....
"The area east of 1st Avenue above 20th Street is a barren hinterland devoid of easy subway access and normal ameneties."
It's so true! By the time I finish the 10 minute walk to the First Avenue L stop or the 15 minute walk to Union Square, my feet are bloody stumps!
Once the rent hits $2000, you, the existing tenant, are still protected, so your rent increase would be whatever is set each year. It's the next tenant who's out of luck.
I love it!
One mention of preferring to live in Manhatttan and the "brooklyner" types come out swinging. Couldn't see THAT coming-- I'm just surprised it took more than an hour.
i just wonder who can afford 4000/month for rent. i know its new york and all, but that's a LOT of money. what do the people who pay that much do for a living? i'm just curious.
I have friends who live there - very close to 1st avenue in a one-bedroom. It's a huge apartment for what they're paying, and nice. Just renovated, new appliances, big kitchen. They're paying a lot for a 1B that far from the subway, but for what they're getting - and having avoided paying a fee - it's not bad.
For what the increases are looking like, though, definitely not worth it to live that far away.
I'm with 1:47 -- $3000/mo. is a $600k mortgage (not including taxes or maint fees, much less a down payment) -- who are these people? If I had $3k for rent, I'd rather buy.
The only friend I know paying over $4000 a month on rent is a celebrity who is making millions of dollars a year. And even though he could afford more, even he is aware that what he's paying is a lot. So when I hear about normal working people (even with a good salary) paying $3000-$4000 a month in rent, I just shake my head in wonder. I'm one of those people who have made peace with the idea that you pay a premium to live in Manhattan, but jeez, there's got to be 'some' limit.
I'll answer that:
Personally, I can afford $4000 at the current time because I just sold my 1 Bedroom in Murray Hill (which I bought in '97) for what I consider to be a ridiculously over-inflated price, not that I'm complaining.
I refuse to pay the sale prices that are being asked for two-bed or larger apartments, and am rolling the dice for a year to see if prices soften... We may want to move to Brooklyn or the suburbs after all-- we don't know yet-- we just had a kid, and renting allows us to get out fast if I want, with no strings.
I agree that $4000 is a ridiculous price to pay for rent, which is exactly why I have no intention of paying it for more than a year or two.
As to "what do these people do for a living" I'm a partner at a startup advertising agency ("startup" means "no cushy salary", by the way).
The funniest stories I hear are when someone tells me they are paying $2500 to live in Brooklyn. I LOVE brooklyn, it's great, but $2500 to live in an outer borough is, um, illogical.
I live in Peter Cooper, moved in last summer. We currently pay $2600 per month for a one-bed right on 1st Ave. Back last summer, $2600 wasn't at all ridiculous for what we were getting - the longer we waited, the more rents EVERYWHERE went up insanely. However, I am getting rather sick of the fascist landlords with their cameras everywhere. It creeps me out to feel like I'm being watched all the time, even though I know they're really after the rent-controlled tenants, which I am certainly not!
This place is NOT a luxury complex. We chose it because we liked it - big, newly renovated, the grounds are great and it's very quiet. But is it luxury? Hells no. Luxury is doorman, gym, etc etc. If they jack my rent more than 200 a month, I'm outta there - I can pay a mover to come and move my stuff for less than one month of these rent increases people are talking about! They can have fun finding some even bigger sucker to take my apartment. Already hearing about these increases, I feel like I've been conned.
The funniest stories I hear are when someone tells me they are paying $2500 to live in Brooklyn. I LOVE brooklyn, it's great, but $2500 to live in an outer borough is, um, illogical.
When PCV apartments are 3-4K+, a luxury apartment in a nice part of Brooklyn for 2K becomes (and is) completely reasonable.
It becomes increasingly apparent that I have to leave this place for the suburbs ASAP. Thanks for the reminder, Gothamist.
Jess: Except, if you're paying $2500 a month for a place in Brooklyn Heights, your commute to most parts of manhattan is MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH better than PCV/ST... or hell, most of the UES/UWS. And you're probably getting a MUCH MUCH nicer place too.
(I guess its that I'm more of a downtown guy... oh well...)
Jess: Except, if you're paying $2500 a month for a place in Brooklyn Heights, your commute to most parts of manhattan is MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH better than PCV/ST... or hell, most of the UES/UWS. And you're probably getting a MUCH MUCH nicer place too.
(I guess its that I'm more of a downtown guy... oh well...)
Nick,
That makes no sense. I live in Stuy Town and it takes me 5 minutes to walk to the L, which gets me to every line. And the bus goes across 23rd St or up 1st or 3rd Avenue.
Brooklyn Heights is like half an hour away from Manhattan.
Jenna
Nassau and Westchester, the new outer-boroughs.
Whenever I'm feeling like I'm getting ripped off for my $1200/mo 1Br in Astoria all I need to do is read a little bit about rents in Manhattan to make myself feel better.
We signed a lease for a one bedroom last July in Stuy Town for around $2400/month. It's converted into a 2 bedroom. I love Stuy Town, but Our apartment is right at 14th and 1st ave, above the L train. Can anyone tell me what to expect in terms of rent increase?
Jenna, when is the last time you've been to Brooklyn Heights? It's less than 5 minutes to LES, less than 10 to Village, 15 to Rock Center. I leave 20 minutes before i have to be places and i'm always 5 minutes early, barring some subway fuckup, probably caused by someone like you throwing their body in front of a train because they live in a converted project.
Nick,
That makes no sense. I live in Stuy Town and it takes me 5 minutes to walk to the L, which gets me to every line. And the bus goes across 23rd St or up 1st or 3rd Avenue.
Brooklyn Heights is like half an hour away from Manhattan.
Jenna
*****
Brooklyn Heights is just a couple of minutes from Manhattan.
I live in PCV and I have to agree with all of Sean's comments about it. Not nearly as bad a commute as some of these outer borough types would suggest. I find the area tranquil (you can describe it as desolate if you want) but lots of shade on green grass by the water is a nice escape from the city if you ask me. It's a very safe area and there are plenty of cabs as well if you need to get somewhere quick.
I moved in almost three years ago when they were still allowing people to convert 2BR, 2BA apts into a 3BR. Technically, we're not allowed to keep our place as a converted 3BR, but they don't really care. The rooms are all spacious (smallest bedroom is 16x10), the apartment was renovated right before we moved in, kitchen and bathrooms coated in marble, new appliances and new remote controlled air conditioners for every room (even the converted room). After two years of very modest rent increases, we pay roughly $3100/month including utilities. Quite cheap for three people. In fact, most people who come to our place think its one of the best apartments they've seen for that price. I'm just hoping they don't jack our rent this year.
Talk about some hideously ugly buildings. I've seen better looking prisons.
I live in Stuytown and think that, for the most part, I have a pretty good deal. I live in a 2 bedroom and pay 2625. However, the paint on my ceiling is chipping and cracking, the plumbing has never worked properly, the elevator is constantly out of order and my laundry room has roaches. Stuytown/PCV really needs to address these problems before they can jack up the rent 25%. These hi-rises are spacious, but definitely not the luxury apts that they are advertising.
$775 in fab Flushing. Rent stabilized and I'm never moving till I hit Megamillions, which is what you have to play to afford anything in Manhattan. RE is out of control and something should be done to curb pricing, raise wages, or both.
Even $1500 a month for an apartment, no matter what borough, is crazy money.
www.forgotten-ny.com
Brooklyn Heights is lovely. But, commute time isn’t just when the train leaves station A to when it arrives in station B. It includes the walk to the station, the wait time and the walk on the other end. Remember to calculate differently for rush hour and 1 am on Saturday. Stuy Town leaves a lot to be desired aesthetically, but I can stumble home from the lower east side drunk, while you wait for the train. And let's race to Corner Bistro.
But then I have a $1400 two bedroom, so I am clearly biased.
I tried to get a Sty Town apartment last spring. I was very skeptical about the place when I saw the ugly giant buildings but I somehow got tricked into going inside (responded to advertisement not knowing the ad was for the 'ugly giant buildings'). So I went inside and it turned out that the apartments were gorgeous - unbelievable in fact compared to others I saw in the city. They were brand new and HUGE!!! So I made an application. I didn't meet the rent criteria and my parents couldn't co-sign the lease since they are deceased. I faxed over papers from my lawyer and accountant showing that I have 4 million in a trust fund that makes 9k monthly payments. The rent on the place was $2900 for a two bedroom (They required a very large income, more than 10k per month) . They wouldn't rent to me even after I offered to pay one years rent in advance... The women who helped me was a huge bitch. I feel lucky now that i didn't rent, seeing that the prices are increasing.
I tried to get a Sty Town apartment last spring. I was very skeptical about the place when I saw the ugly giant buildings but I somehow got tricked into going inside (responded to advertisement not knowing the ad was for the 'ugly giant buildings'). So I went inside and it turned out that the apartments were gorgeous - unbelievable in fact compared to others I saw in the city. They were brand new and HUGE!!! So I made an application. I didn't meet the rent criteria and my parents couldn't co-sign the lease since they are deceased. I faxed over papers from my lawyer and accountant showing that I have 4 million in a trust fund that makes 9k monthly payments. The rent on the place was $2900 for a two bedroom (They required a very large income, about 10k per month) . They wouldn't rent to me even after I offered to pay one years rent in advance... The women who helped me was a huge bitch -- not because she wouldn't rent to me, but because after showing her the income of my estate she yelled at me saying, "you gave me the tax return of a deceased person!" (the trust my deceased parents set up for me). Anyway, I suppose that I feel lucky now that i didn't rent, seeing that the prices are increasing.
I live in BH and work at MSG (not for MSG, just in the building). Door to door, 20 minutes. Swear to God. Do it every morning. Little more if the trains are funky. East side commutes are a little trickier because you have to walk to Boro Hall, but still no biggie. And my building doesn't look like a Robert Moses hard-on. And my 2br/1.5bath with a view of the harbor is under 2K/month (and that's mortgage and maintenace, folks, not rent).
We were in the West Village for the five years prior to our move to BH, we love downtown, hated to leave it, hope someday to move back, but sometimes snobbery is just flat dumb.
Tim N. is CORRECT! Hail Tim N.! Hail Tim N.!
Robert Moses hard-on! Ha!
Hail Tim N.!
I like StuyTown/PCV but something I've always wondered is why a "middle class" project like this is considered desirable, while traditional low-income housing projects are usually described as soul-killing in their basic design. This despite the fact that they are aesthetically similar at the getgo; the only real difference is attitude and economic status. Anyone else have thoughts about this?
I can to get MSG, in 15 minutes, and I can walk there in 30 minutes which is what I usually do. Hey, as long as we are picking arbitrary destinations, I can walk to the east village in 5 minutes. I believe the Brooklyn Heights crowd has expressed plenty of snobbery in this discussion. Stuy Town was previously desirable for the cheap rent. I love the derogatory projects comments, not snobbish or classist at all. Yes, I grew up in this ugly middle class project, not Ritzy and as I said previously, lovely Brooklyn Heights. No we didn't have air conditioning until 1995. I will never admit that Brooklyn Heights is more convenient to Manhattan than my apartment on 20th and 1st. Yes, I am too poor to own my own home. Hey did you hear, Philadelphia is the new Brooklyn?
We feel tricked. We moved in last year to a two-bedroom and were told our lease would only go up a few percentage points. We are now facing a 21.5% increase, a nasty surprise especially after having a new baby.
Here is what my husband and I like and dislike about living in Stuyvesant Town:
Pros:
- Mostly quiet, well behaved rent-regulated neighbors.
- Larger than normal apartments (post war).
-Great playgrounds and open spaces.
- Decent service (but no doormen)
Cons:
- Poor access to transportation (A cross town bus that you can walk faster than and no subway access. Tough to get a cab.)
- Ongoing problems with vermin (roaches, etc.)
- Brown water in kitchen and bath.
- Sound travels too well (especially if your neighbors have no carpeting.)
- Strong armed security staff (Security almost ran our two-year old over last year driving a SUV on the sidewalks.
- Difficult to have guests due to limitations on building access (mandatory photo identity cards for our guests and nanny.)
We will likely move because of the rent increases and our growing family. Be warned it's not luxury as it is portrayed.
My wife and I moved from an illegal Stuy town unit with an incredible view paying 1500 a month to a renovated unit with a crappy view and paying 1950. We moved to do the right thing and not worry about being caught but now we are being screwed.
Our 1st renewal two years ago offered us a 1 year or two year both at REDUCED rates from our 1st year. we took the 2 year and our rent actually went down to 1875.
Here we are two years later and we just got our new renewal..$2300 Per month for one more year and 2700 for a two.
Needless to say we are looking for a new place to live. That is over a 20% increase and is rediculous. Pretty stupid also as we have now livedin the unit for three years and it no longer is as nice as it was when everything was new..
I am paying $2,474 to live in 431 east 20th street in Peter Cooper. I'm on the 9th floor and I'm a building from st Ave. The just raised my rent to 2800!!! This is a RIP OFF!!! THE AREA SUCKS!!! I just found a great apt on Ave B and 9st for $1,900. Sure it;s smaller but I'll save close to a grand a month and be in an area that is 100 times better. If you need a subway don't move here! Who knows how much they will raise the rents next year. MET LIFE SUCKS! Peter Cooper is a total ripoff.
What isn't a ripoff in this city's G*d-forsaken real estate market?
Who can ever afford to own (or even rent) in the city except trust fund-inheritance folks, old money, bankers/finance types (and their S.O.'s), celebrities, and 5 kids cramming into a place meant for two? Come to think of it, that's a lot of people.
Hell, I'd live in Manhattan again if I could afford to pay $2,500+/month on just rent without severely compromising my lifestyle but at some point, I need to think about the future...and I've got no big bonus coming. Although, if I could afford the prices bandied about here, PCV would not be my first choice.
This is a freaking disgrace. I grew up in Peter cooper, when there were lots of kids. We lived in fear of having a dishwasher or washing machine. Hell, you were afraid to let handymen in your apt. for fear that they may see your build in bookcase-all against the rules. Yes, the rent was cheap, but was a white "project" with a million rules, "don't step on the grass" "don't ride a bicycle". That form of Nazism worked when tenents were paying $1,000 for a two bedroom, but this is plain nuts. I cannot believe that anyone would actually pay $4,600 a month for an apt that looks mostly out to other buildings, no gym, no doorman, and a sucky nearby public school. I hear there are tons of empty apts now, and we can only hope Tishman Speer loses everything due to their greed. Suckers.