Minorities Want Their Own Lounge at NYU Law

Self segregation is a major step backwords in my opinion.

The fact that people feel they need to be among others of their own race in order to feel safe is in and of itself racism.

It might actually be caused by experience(s) with racism, but I believe the correct course of action is to move beyond and to get closer to eachother as one society. When you say the word "American", it means so many things now, not just white, we are the paradigm for what the world hopefully will become once we've succesfully adjusted ourselves. To begin to self segregate and form factions as has been suggested in these threads, is counter-productive to what America and being American is about.

Well, if you want to start banning minority safe spaces on campuses, then you'd have to remove the LGBT lounges and the ENTIRE hillel. actually, might as well remove the concept of women's colleges and historically black colleges in general.

think before you type, people.

The people of the Cival Rights movement 40 years ago worked very hard to end segregation and 'seperation' between races in this country to achieve equal opportunity for all. I doubt they'd find a 'safe-house' or seperated lounge a progressive step for members of a minority community to ease their cultural challenges.

"re: POCs need to feel safe to excell.)"

Hanalei, that is quite a generalized statement you are making.

I am a Hispanic student at a pre-dominantly white(though mostly swedish) college and what drives me to excel is being around other achievers and "go-getters", who also have that drive to excel. I don't need to be "safe" (and I am using that word in the context you used it) in order to excel.

"I've always wanted a lounge for ugly, socially awkward people where we could "go to feel comfortable, to talk without hesitation, to be surrounded by those that understand or are more open to understanding [our] experience"

actually, this exists. it's called the internet.

bada bing!

bada boom!

SO WHY NOT GIVE THEM A LOUNGE? they just want chairs and walls. maybe even a vending machine...

"I've always wanted a lounge for ugly, socially awkward people where we could "go to feel comfortable, to talk without hesitation, to be surrounded by those that understand or are more open to understanding [our] experience"

actually, this exists. it's called the internet.

bada bing!

bada boom!

I've always wanted a lounge for ugly, socially awkward people where we could "go to feel comfortable, to talk without hesitation, to be surrounded by those that understand or are more open to understanding [our] experience," but I don't think anyone will support that idea.

A lot of people would enjoy a place like that. Maybe if I were a minority, it wouldn't be so difficult to find people that I could relate to. It must be nice to automatically have something in common because of skin color.

the dynamics in all white circles and POC circles vary greatly --- i think this should be greatly weighted in NYU's decision. in the same vein that defends the need for historically black universities and women's universities, in an atmosphere where one is not "othered," people have room to excell and feel safer to succeed. despite the privilege of already being in law school, we must remember that academia is still a very white place. such provisions (as said lounge) are important for the upward mobility of people of color (re: POCs need to feel safe to excell.)

again, i don't expect many folks who don't belong to POC/marginalized circles to understand this argument, as many white/privileged people still believe in the the "we all bleed red"/"i should be judged by my intent" theories. (which by the way is a great show of white entitlement.)

(i apologize for typos, i don't feel like rereading my post.) ta-daa!

Good idea.

I just got even better idea! Let's reserve some bus seats for non-whites and let's have segregated schools. Why limit segregation on lounges only. Even better solution is to have black-only universities. This way blacks do not have to see those awful white people.

I don't understand what spygroove thinks is the matter with having a crutch. Sometimes you need a crutch, right? I think when it comes to an issue as complex as race in America and race in academia, a crutch is better than nothing at all. The students of color at NYU (and Michigan as well), especially black and Latino students, cannot segregate themselves, whether or not they have their own lounge. Their entire college/law school lives are dominated by white peers and professors. Anyone would get pretty darn sick of always being different. Being in a room full of people who look like you and have similar backgrounds is healthy and refreshing. If you went to Howard or Morehouse, you'd feel pretty damn relieved to see a room full of people who looked like you.

That is a faulty assumption and a faulty conclusion.

If a whole bunch of black students simply hung in a regular lounge at the same time, it will become a black lounge automatically. Sort of like CBGB turned from a hillbilly dive to a punk club, simply because punks started hanging there.

We have a minority lounge at Michigan Law. It's right next to a traditional student lounge and is not (strictly) black-only. Although it has not been hugely destructive, I view it as an overall negative. True, black students can discuss issues of mutual concern, but nothing would prevent that in the absence of such a space. Many black students, I fear, come to view it as a crutch. They are instinctively more comfortable with students who look like they do (and who come from similar backgrounds, etc.), so it's simply easier for them to go to the minority lounge than to interact with the more diverse crowd next door. Some degree of self-segregation would happen, of course, even if everyone were in the same space. But the tendency to legitimize this and to surround it by a wall may create more problems than it solves.

Has anyone considered why black law students feel they need a black student lounge?

For those of you who are thinking "segregation" and "reverse racism," you are deluding yourselves. Look, sometimes black folks need to talk to other black people about their experiences, experiences that no matter who you are, what neighborhood you grew up in, who your best friends are, if you are not black you will never understand. And when (yes, when, not if) a black student has issues stemming from race,(not ethnicity or nationality, jmchez) they need to talk to someone who has a visceral understanding and a trust that they won't be accused of over-reacting or paranoia. Oh, and another thing jmchez, lawyers do need a space to talk about racism, how do you think the Congressional Black, Hispanic, and Asian Pacific Caucuses got started?

I think the lounge is a great idea. Lots of schools have them. I went to Brown, which has a great one. It's not exclusive. White people who are active in the community of color's activities come all the time to use the computers, hold meetings, or study. White people who don't particularly want to hang out with lots of non-white people don't go, but complain a lot about feeling excluded. I imagine the same would happen at NYU. The only reason some white NYU students would feel excluded is because it would be the one place on NYU's campus where they would not be primarily surrounded by people of their own race, which most people of color know can be intimidating, which is probably why they want their own space. I'm just saying....

it don't matter if you're black or white!! Sha mon!!!!

Are they taking applications for bouncers?

It's such a silly idea that I imagine that the proposal is just some sort of test put together by a kid to gauge people's reactions - sort of a law student's idea of performance art.

Come on. These are law students we're talking about here. Having dealt with my fair share of lawyers, I think it's safe to say they're often not the sharpest tools in the shed.

As an african american, I would be for an black law students association/club to help students make the necessary contacts for moving up and along in their careers and discuss issues black people will face in the profession, however, I believe having a racially segregrated lounge would be contrary to the purpose of higher education. Part of the learning process in college and or higher education is rubbing shoulders with students of all backgrounds and for black people to segregate themselves in that way would potentially harm their ability to associate with people that they'll be working with when their school days are over.

People are very skilled at segregating themselves, and the concept of a segregated lounge is pretty stupid. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't kick a straight person out of a GLBT lounge, just like no one should get away with throwing a white person out of a voluntarily-appointed "persons of color" lounge. If you want to exclude someone, just act like an asshole, and they'll get the message that you're an asshole, and they won't want to join your club. It's really very simple.

Seriously, cut the cord already. Life is all about differences, and the only sane way to deal with them is to embrace them. Closing yourself off to different people will accomplish nothing but social stunting. Shouldn't law students realize this?

Segregation is wrong. period. Just like race-quotas and those white-only clubs Ted Kennedy was attending and funding until it was exposed few weeks ago.

Should we make own lounges for chinese students as well?

Jsut because there are more people of color in higher education doesn't make it a safe space for them. All other spaces are de-facto white dominated spaces as is general society because of the paradigm of power. I know in college the multi-cultural center was a safe space for not just the POC population but also the Jewish population and the GLBT community. I don't know however if this same dynamic and argument would work the same in NYC ( I went to college in New England). What I will say is that for many students of color NYU can be racist and feel unsafe.

How about minority water-fountains and seating areas (back of the bus) on public transit? This just proves that there is nothing as useless as a university student.

NY Schools are already segregated as it is, this would just make it worse. This is New York, everybody should feel comfortable(or at least make an effort) and intergrate themselves with other people of different backgrounds.

And like jmchez said, these are grown people and not 15 year olds.

It's just a fuckin' lounge. Geez. White people have their own exclusive lounge: most executive boardrooms, country clubs, etc. Also, there's a difference between "segregation" and "separation." The former is forced while the latter is voluntary.

NYU does have an LGBT lounge on campus: along with the office, which organizes several different events and clubs, and a collection of gay literature and movies.

Reporters need to stop being sheep and call thi what it really is: a black-only lounge. If a bunch of people of the same race want to hang out together, fine sure go ahead. But don't look to the school to legislate on what should be your own private business.

I think the first poster had a very good opinion, and I second that.

Seriously, the nonsense disguised as victimization(for what else is it to want a place where others care about your feelings?)never ceases to amaze me. Hey, if you are in law school it should mean that you are no longer a child that needs your mommy and old neighborhood pals to make you feel better. If I were hiring a lawyer and heard that he frequented one of these self-esteem nurserys, I would need further proof that he was tough enough to take my case and I'm Hispanic (Dominican).

BTW, would Japanese feel comfortable hanging out with Koreans? Dominicans with Haitians? Greeks and Armenians with Turks? White Argentinians with even whiter Chileans? Just asking.