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This is awesome: A Queens woman is asking a judge to make the state pay for her five children to get a private school education. The basis for Dianne Payne's claim is that since the state owes the city about $5.6 billion to give public school students a basic education, the city is currently failing her kids and therefore, the $12,500 the city reportedly spends per student should just be given directly to her! Payne, who sends two children to private school in Queens, told reporters, "I'm doing my job as a parent. The problem is that the city is not doing its job." While people don't expect her motion to gain any traction (the city calls it "obvious grandstanding"), Gothamist imagines this will pave the way for people suggesting that the city give them the money it uses to maintain the parks because they know how to take care of lawns better. This actually sounds like an extension of the credits for parents who would send their kids fo private school that we think Giuliani floated (it was some politician) a while back - does this still exist?
Fun fact: Payne's lawyer is Eric Grannis, former City Council member Eva Moskowitz's husband.
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Pataki's budget proposal contained a $500 tax credit per pupil, that could be spend on private or parochial school tuition, for families in underperforming school districts.
This doesn't just "sound like" the program you're referring to, it's a perfect explanation of the thinking behind a vouchure-based program. The idea being, "Hey, I just gave you tax money to educate my kid, and you're not doing it properly, so give that money back to me, and I'll educate my own child!" This type of system is up and running in communities like Cleveland, OH and a few others. But... this situation is a bit odd, b/c she seem to be asking for more money than she initially put into the system.
Again, for the umpteenth time....NYC needs to secede from NY state. Let those upstate losers fend for themselves since they don't want to give us the money that we send to them.
This idea isn't so radical. Based on a 20/20 last week, most European countries allocate the money for educating children to individuals so they can choose to attend any school they want to. This is good for a couple reasons -- gives the money to the best schools so schools are motivated to perform better and also poor performing schools go out of business. This is a free marketing idea with a lot of competition. If NYC started allocating the money to each child and let them decide how to spend it for their education you would see city schools improve quickly or they would go out of business. But this will never happen since the there are too many people that have a financial interest in the status quo such as the Teachers Union.
Public money to private schools is a good idea. It forces public schools to function (compete) better to retain students.
Hank - I hated that 20/20 segment! I think I hate the host more than anything, to be fair. I want to smack his smug moustache repeatedly. I see the arguments on both sides (though I'm anti-voucher/school choice), but I thought the piece was so biased.
$12,500 a kid!? State universities are cheaper. Usually private schools that cost around $5-6k do a better job than public schools.
Private or Public ,Keshawn and Leyquon aren't going to read at a 8th grade level.
www.leehotti.com
"Again, for the umpteenth time....NYC needs to secede from NY state. Let those upstate losers fend for themselves since they don't want to give us the money that we send to them."
What you will end up is the same situation as District of Columbia. No Senate representation. You will essentially strip out the only part of New York State that has a liberal vote. Schumer and Clinton will effectively be voted out of office. The President and Congress have blocked DC from becoming a state for 200 years. You think they will allow NYC?
I love the thought behind this, though her logic is misguided. Governor Duh does owe the city and its schoolkids $5 billion, so suing to get it, while ineffective, is a good, loud way to draw attention to Pataki's telling NYC schoolkids to go f*** themselves.
But diverting it to a private school tuition is slightly off the track. If you're going to use a suit to sound off, better to sue the state and demand a brand-spankin'-new school building on your block.
Are we talking about Jon Stossel, with the moustache? Because he's a consummate bullshit artist, which he masks with a condescending tone. He tends to back up his arguments with anecdotal interviews that seem to prove his point, but are misleading and don't prove anything.
School vouchers would be a good idea if (1) they weren't unconstitutional (public tax dollars taken out of public schools and given to private, mostly religious schools); and if (2) there were actually enough private schools to place unsatisfied students, which there aren't; and if (3) you could force private schools to accept any student who wanted to enroll, which you cannot. Private schools have the right to accept or reject any student, for any reason. Do you think they'll accept students with behavior and socialization problems, special ed students, and all of these other students that get lost in the public school shuffle? They won't, and you can't make them. If you could, they'd be called public schools.
Even if there were enough slots for our students, the effect would be to syphon off the best students and make public schools worse dumping grounds than some of them already are, not better. This would effectively destroy public education as we know it, which I'm sure would please the privatization crowd. However, as I've said, the actual number of private schools doesn't even come close to being able to handle the sheer volume of students in failing schools, so that will never happen.
The solution? I don't know, but it's certainly not as simplistic as "vouchers." All I can say is that this supposed "competition" vouchers would create is another red herring. It's not FedEx vs. UPS, and school kids are not packages to be delivered, and I think it's a pretty shortsighted argument.
I am so bored at work today.
PS: Most private schools average between $15k and $20k annually (yes, that's $20,000 per kid per year). If Ms. Payne is getting a private school for $12.5 she's already getting a deal.
Unless it's a parochial school, the only $5000 private school you'll find in the five boros would be outdoors.
Maybe if that woman feels she can't adequately provide education for her children she shouldn't have adopted five of them.
Ethan, you and I are the same person. I DETEST Stossel. I agree with you on all fronts.
Anything to draw attention to this town's awful public schools is ok by me. It is our shame!
At least make her private school tuition tax deducible.
"Schumer and Clinton will effectively be voted out of office."
oh come now, you say this like it would be a bad thing.
"(1) they weren't unconstitutional (public tax dollars taken out of public schools and given to private, mostly religious schools)"
actually, there have been a number of cases upholding aid to private and parochial schools so long as - generally speaking - the aid in question neither favors nor disfavors religion. there was a case on special ed money to parochial schools a few years back that i can't remember right now that addressed this.
There was a recent florida decision that declared vouchers unconstitutional (much to jeb bush's consternation). Again, while it might not be unconstitutional to give vouchers for non-religious private schools, the majority are religious, and there aren't enough of them all told to deal with the number of unsatifactory public schools. Vouchers are not a solution.
Any open dialogue on the subject is important. I am sure that we can all agree that the NYC Public School education is failing our kids.
The Florida decision that you refer to Ethan was by the Florida Supreme Court and held that vouchers were unconstitutional according to the Florida constitution. It may be that vouchers violate the NY constitution but the Florida decision is in no way binding on NY.