Opponents of Stadium Voice Opinions in The Bronx

Back on the topic of the stadium:

"The city is to replace the parkland and the state is building the three garages which it gets the revenue from."

That's not correct, though it was reported that way for months. A private garage developer will get the revenues, with the state kicking in $70 million and getting back nothing.

Tim N.:

While your points now hold more weight and are much more valid for a debate, I have to nitpick just this one thing:

"First off, it was never said the Yanks had no Latins."

Actually, it was -- in your first post.

"(for a while Danny Tartabull was the only Latino in the starting lineup)"

Myself and others were simply pointing out that this statement, from which you based much of your argument, was in accurate.

As for your other arguments, I obviously don't have all of the required publications to counter your point about promotion but even a cursory search indicates to me that:

In the 1989-1990 Edition (Vol.10) of Yankees Magazine, Espinoza was featured on the cover of Issue 8;

In the 1990-1991 Edition (Vol.11) of Yankees Magazine, Roberto Kelly was featured on the cover of Issue 4;

There was a Starting Lineup Figure made of Kelly in 1993;

etc. etc.

Hardly a complete lack of promotion as you seem to believe...

Just to lighten the mood a little bit further... I can remember to this day Freddy Ferrer going on Mike and the Mad Dog to complain about the Yankees community outreach and not promoting Latin players... but here's the thing...

Chris Russo kept calling him "Jose." It was unbelieveable.

Ohh, boy.

First off, it was never said the Yanks had no Latins. They just did not promote them out, say, the way Carols Beltran or Pedro Martinez are promoted.

Now, as to what I did say:

George made many statements about the Bronx, particularly when no one was going to games in the late 80's/early 90's, which amounted to no one wants to go there, it's unsafe. The lie was put to this by crime statistics which showed that the only arrests in the neighborhood around YS on game days were mostly people attending games and were alcohol-related. It was also proved to be ridiculous given the number of police in and around the stadium. These statements, which came fast and furious, were construed by the people living in the neighborhood, and by then-BP Fernando Ferrer, to be racist in origin, which, IMHO, they were.

In fact, no one was going to the games because the team sucked (two words: Mel Hall).

It was pointed out by Ferrer and others that that was very little community outreach by the Yanks, that you rarely if ever saw any of the Latin players you've mentioned on the cover of the yearbook, program, other publictions, etc., and that whenever they needed someone to make an appearance they brought out Don Mattingly or Dave Righetti (I won't even get into the whole Dave Winfield thing).

Everyone mentioned so far was either a scrub, rookie, or role player. And think about it... who was the last big Latino free agent the Yanks signed before Tartabull in '92? Honestly, I can't name one. I think the last big Yankee free agent before Tartabull was Jack Clark, and Ricky Henderson before him. I could be wrong (and I'm sure someone will let me know if I am :>) )

Things came to a head in 1994 when Matt Bai interviewed Yank VP Richard Kraft about the Yanks and the nabe and Kraft used words like "colored boy" and "monkeys" to describe who lived in the neighborhood. He also, according to Bai, looked longingly at a photo of the Stadium from the 50's or 40's, filled with white men in suits and hats, and talked about how it would be nice if things "were still like that."

Is George a racist? Who knows. I'm not in his head. George follows the money, and there's no sin in that. I'm a big Yankee fan so I like (no, love) the way he spends his money and thirsts to win. But if you and I and Adolfo Carrion and Mike Bloomberg and George Steinbrenner want to know where this pool of resentment from the locals is coming from, there you have it. This is why there is opposition to the new stadium.

My point, and I do have one, is: This is why the Yanks are still not trusted around those parts, despite the many, many Latin stars they developed on their own, or signed or traded for, and have pushed in the media since the mid-90's.

As mentioned, you may call Steinbrenner many things "racist" is pretty hefty term to throw around without warrant.

Your first statement was that "(for a while Danny Tartabull was the only Latino in the starting lineup)" -- and that was rebuked, so you've now changed it to "[Tartabull] was the first Latino who was promoted" which is a VERY different argument.

And yet -- Hensley "Bam Bam" Meulens was promoted as being the next great thing, top prospect. Azocar was highly touted there for a while too. Espinzoa, a personal favorite player of mine, was the starting shortsop. The Perez brothers. There haven't meen a majority of starting latino players, but I hardly think Steinbrenner went out and said "Get me the best non-Latino players our money can buy!"

*THAT* would be racist.

As for Bernie Williams, there have been LARGE number of Yankees of ALL races under George's tenure that have been threatened to be traded for even the most minor mistakes, and sometimes for no mistakes at all. How many times did they threaten to trade Andy Pettitte?

George is well-hated, overspends, doesn't have the best baseball mind, likes the publicity, controlling -- whatever. Sure. But racist?

I don't think there's any evidence of that.

Luis Polonia wasn't a throw in, he was the main part of that trade. Greg Cadaret and Eric Plunk certainy weren't. He got sent away after he slept with a 17 year-old girl.

Bernie was fighting for playing time with Roberto Kelly and Deion Sanders.

Don't forget Omar Moreno, Cecilio Guante and Bert Campaneris who may have been 50 when they brought him in.

I think you can call Steinbrenner a lot of things, but racist isn't one of them.

Tartabull the first Latino that was promoted? In the lineup? What are you talking about? Let's review.

For better or worse, Alvaro Espinoza was the Yankees starting short stop in 1989, 1990, and 1991 before Tartabull arrived. Espinoza was from Venezuela. In 1990, Oscar Azocar and Luis Polonia were both on the team and both are Lation.

In the mid 1980s, the Yanks had a few Latino players. No starters, but a few players.

When they won the World Series in 1977, Ed Figueroa was a leading member of their pitching staff. He was back in 1978.

While the team may not have whole-heartedly pursued Latin American players, no one did. The Yanks now have a huge operation in Latin America. So your criticisms seem a little off the mark.

When Tartabull got there, he was the first Latino who was promoted. That was 1992.

So '92 (with George in exile) was when things started opening up a bit. (Check the NYMetro archives for Matt Bai's article from (guessing) '93 and the interview with Robert Kraft, then a Yank VP, where he denigrated the community around the Stadium.)

Melido Perez got there the same year as Tartabull, 1992.

Polonia was a throw-in in the Ricky Henderson deal in '89 and was gone back to Oakland before year's end. He came back in '94, after the enlightenment. He was never a starter.

Bernie Williams was not a starter until '93. And let's remember, every time he took a wrong step on a fly ball he was about to be traded.

Tony Fernandez didn't get to the Yanks until '95, the same year Posada and Rivera made their debuts, as you correctly pointed out.

So the only player you mentioned who was a starter when Tartabull arrived was Roberto Kelly, who announcers insisted on calling "Bobby Kelly" until he complained loud enough.

If *I* remembered this, then no doubt some people on Walton Ave or 167th Street did, too.

Er, exactly when was Danny Tartabull the only Latino in the Yankees lineup?

He played on the Yanks from '92-'95 and shared time with: Melido Perez, Bernie Williams, Roberto Kelly, Luis Polonia, and Tony Fernandez.

And those are only the regulars, ignoring bench players and relievers.

Posada made his debut in 1995, Tartabull's last year, at the age of 23. Rivera debuted that same year at age 25, but as a starter and didn't fare well. Bernie Williams was there every year that Tartabull was, having made his first appearance the year before Tartabull arrived.

The problem here isn't so much with the YS deal (it could probably be tweaked to reflect the community's concerns, and parkland taken for development has to be replaced by the developer by law), it's that for the better part of three decades George Steinbrenner made racist statement after racist statement about the neighborhood where the only white faces you would see were wearing some shade of blue (cops or Yankee fans). This attitude was further reflected in the makeup of the team (for a while Danny Tartabull was the only Latino in the starting lineup). It was only the mid-90's, when George was booted out and there was a front-office shakeup, that the Yankee organization started paying some attention to community outreach. That, and they realized that some of the Latino players they had been not running around after could play pretty good ball (Bernie Williams, Jorge Posada, Mariano Rivera, etc. etc.). Since they've been winning - and drawing more fans - they've been better neighbors and corporate citizens. And they probably think that the fact that they are staying in the Bronx is a sign of good faith. But there's a lot of history there to overcome. I'm not sure it will happen.

As a rabid Yankee fan, I'll say this: George, you reap what you sow.