Bagel Debate: Is Bigger Better?

The Post looks at the growing chasm between old school bagels which tend to be small and the bagels that are the size of a cat. Now, Gothamist didn't realize there was this chasm - we only were aware that there were "NYC bagels" and "crap bagels" (which can even come from NYC, but then they are from Dunkin' Donuts or Au Bon Pain or some other huge chain). The Post's Chris Erikson explains:

The smaller bagel: "chewy and toothsome, with a burnished, blistered crust and the flavor of high-quality, high-gluten flour"
The bigger, new-fangled bagels: "an oversized mass of sweetened dough, with a pale exterior soft as a feather pillow."

Some NYC customers expect huge bagels, even though they really weren't meant to be that way. Apparently bagels got bigger to feed "whitebread" tastes, and some bagel makers use a scary sounding "dough conditioner" that gives bagels their "product softness ('Reddi-Sponge' some old-timers call it) and extend shelf life." Good God! Gothamist always assumed big bagels represented the bounty of the city, and during our carb-conscious consciousness, we've opted for bialys - or scooped out the white flesh from the big bagels. But now we know!

Do you go for big bagels or smaller ones? And where do you get your favorite bagels? The Post has suggestions on where to get the smaller kinds (including Bruce's Bagels in Brooklyn and Murray's in Manhattan); Gothamist's favorite used to be Columbia Bagels, but that's closed. And the NY Times' Dan Barry follows up on [F]-Line Bagels; it's only for Times Select, so we've cut-and-pasted a choice bit below.

When they were done, two sleek neon signs announced to a fairly desolate corner in Carroll Gardens the addition of a new business: F Line Bagels. The F was encased in the same distinctive orange circle that helps riders to pinpoint the stops along the F train route, including the one at Smith Street, directly opposite this new store.
F Line Bagels opened in February 2005. A month or so later, a man stopped by. He asked for a menu and then he asked for a business card, which is not the same as asking for a bagel with cream cheese.

"Are we in some kind of trouble?" Faried Assad, one of the partners, recalls asking. He also recalls the succinct answer: "Yes."

The man identified himself as a lawyer for the Metropolitan Transportation Authority. He pointed at the signs, the straps, the tiles - the very subway-ness of the store - and said it was all the authority's intellectual property.

....

THE two sides reached a settlement in which the bagel store would pay what Mr. Kelly describes as a nominal licensing fee. But the store dithered for several months before eventually backing out of the deal, he says.

"We couldn't afford it," Mr. Samhan explains. "We're still paying off the signs."

Early last fall, the authority's lawyer returned. Mr. Assad spotted him taking photographs of the store from the sidewalk, and rushed out to confront him. "Get out of here before I take your camera and break it," he remembers yelling, or something to that effect.

Why the anger? Because the man's appearance was "a slap to my face," he says. "You put us in this hole. You put us through this misery. I was highly upset."

The episode did not endear the owners to the authority. "They physically intimidated, or tried to intimidate, a member of the M.T.A. staff," Mr. Kelly said. "Their behavior was despicable and something obviously we wouldn't tolerate." No more Mr. Nice Transportation Authority. Or, as Mr. Kelly put it, "Now we're going to enforce all the rules and regulations."

The cost of the licensing fee went up precipitously. Then, in late November, a judge in Manhattan ordered the bagel store to cover up all transit-related items immediately, and to remove the accessories within 60 days - which means by the end of next week.

Gothamist on F Line Bagels.

Contact the author of this article or email tips@gothamist.com with further questions, comments or tips.

By Jen Chung in Food on January 11, 2006 3:49 PM

Comments [rss]

lucy vazquez

everybody in brooklyn talked me about kings highway bagels...and believe me that are the best bagels even in whole ny. Are fresh, hot, soft, all kind of flavors, and the personal who works there are very nice. I really recomend this bagels to you.

Brouhaha

I can't believe only ONE of you got this right... "Bergen Bagels at Flatbush and Bergen has the best bagels I have had in NYC."

Exactly. And if you MUST be in Manhattan, Ess-a-bagel is the king. Pick-A-Bagel on 2nd is ok, so is Tal. But H&H, aka "sugar bagels" are a scam. Don't be taken in by the rep, they are not good bagels.

And back to Brooklyn, Bagel World on Court Street has bagels that look good, but flunk the taste test and don't even toast well.

Kim

Montreal bagels are the best, hands down. I was so very disappointed with their NY cousins. Couldn't believe how unsatisfactory they were! When in Montreal, try the yummy St. Villateur bagels. Oldest bagel bakery in Montreal. They only make two kinds: sesame sesame and poppy seed. Once you've had one, you'll never want another kind.

j

>LI has good ones. Bagel Boss? Anyone? :)

Bagel Boss (the main one in Hicksville) is great at the best of times. In the middle of the night, when most bagel stores in the city that supposidly never sleeps are closed, nothing in the world beats a hot BB bagel fresh out of the oven.

Anonymous

Don't really get the point of this thread. Even at their best, bagels kinda suck. I mean, a bagel is something you eat when you don't have time to cook or seek out real food. It's easy and convenient, but there nothing to it. Bagels are things we should never or rarely even notice. They're not worth thinking about, though.

Deb

I'm glad someone brought up the debate on flavored versus plain or seeded bagels. My question is, is it pumpernickle if it doesn't have onions? I know it's a matter of taste, but it seems to me that only the genuine article have onions. And a nice toasty exterior. Perfect with fresh cream cheese or farmer's cheese. The purists in my family would have them with lox on top with a slice of tomato and an onion. Size-wise, the bagel shouldn't be much bigger than the slice of beefsteak tomato and onion. Otherwise, you miss the flavorful bite. Mmmmmm.

Chas

The real tragedy is NYC "Hot Pretzels" are no longer "bagels."

random girl

You guys are totally making me homesick. I've been living in Shanghai for four years and haven't had a decent bagel since I got here. The only bagels available are frozen Lender's bagels. Can you think of anything more horrifying? And people who aren't from NYC can't understand why I refuse to eat them. I remember Ess-a-Bagel very fondly... so yummy...

Re: size. Once you've lived outside the U.S. for a while, you realize EVERYTHING in the States is too too big. Americans (including New Yorkers)like to eat ridiculously big portions; everytime I come home to visit, I gain so much weight. Even "small" bagels seem huge.

dbdron

Nisey79: Yes indeed.. It's a franchise that dots the island. It's all about their everything bagel.. gotta luv the kosher salt!

dbdtron

Scout

I live in Jersey and commute and I find that most of the Manhattan bagel joints along my route are rubbish, so in this case I want value-for-money, or the larger ones. However in my hometown (Maplewood, NJ) there are three bagel stores and I certainly prefer the smaller, sweeter boiled-first-then-baked kind, which are smaller.

Posted by: Scott | January 12, 2006 09:55 AM

***********

Isn't "I live in Jersey" and "I want value-for money" kinda repetitive?

Ellen

My father grew up in Montreal, and I always thought my relatives there were delusional for thinking so highly of Montreal bagels.

A hot fresh bagel is good from anywhere in NYC, especially H&H, Ess-a-Bagel, and Pick-a-Bagel.

nisey79

dbdtron: Is Bagel Boss on Old Country Road in a strip mall? If so, I've been there (good bagel, too).

Laren

I'm a fan of Murray's multigrain and H&H's everything bagels when they're hot. Totally different -- but hey, it depends on my mood and where I am in the city. Also -- I agree with posters who have said that bialys are underrated. Let's raise some bialy consciousness around here, shall we?

Tom

Bergen Bagels at Flatbush and Bergen has the best bagels I have had in NYC.

janelle

i gave up bagels & cream cheese for new year's. *snif*

nisey79

Montague Bagels in Bklyn Heights is pretty good. I've also gotta give a huge rave to Tal Bagels on 1st Ave. btw. 54th & 55th Sts. in Manhattan. They also don't toast.

However, the best bagels can be found at Monroe Bagels & Deli in Monroe, NY...just perfect, and their coffee is fantastic, too.

MB

I had a delicious pumpernickel bagel from F-Line two days ago. It sufficiently exercised my jaw.

My family has always called any bagel that's not small and chewy "Goyishe Bagels," presumably because non-Jews are satisfied with crappy bagels. Cinnamon raisin, fine, but sunflower seed? Blueberry? St. Patrick's green? Gag.

Also, my family has been getting our bialys at Kossar's for several generations. I haven't ever tried a bialy that wasn't from Kossar's.

I don't equate bagels and bialys; they're different doughs, with different flavors and purposes.

sif

Hightone Cafe, 40th bt bway and 6th.

b-log

Terrace Bagels on 9th avenue in Brooklyn are old school, and they're still huge. Best bagels around.

The deli on 3rd avenue and St. Marks makes the new, big fluffy ones. No good.

Scott

I live in Jersey and commute and I find that most of the Manhattan bagel joints along my route are rubbish, so in this case I want value-for-money, or the larger ones. However in my hometown (Maplewood, NJ) there are three bagel stores and I certainly prefer the smaller, sweeter boiled-first-then-baked kind, which are smaller.

Is there a Google Map of proper bagel shops in NYC? Can we make one? Someone take the ball here.