Dubai Debt Issues Push Stocks Down
Family Gets Early Christmas Gift From Ellen DeGeneres
Photos of D Train Murder Depict Bloody Panic
Mayor: Sex Trafficking Victims, Please Speak Up
Stuy Pyro Leaves Notes In Hieroglyphics
The Post looks at the growing chasm between old school bagels which tend to be small and the bagels that are the size of a cat. Now, Gothamist didn't realize there was this chasm - we only were aware that there were "NYC bagels" and "crap bagels" (which can even come from NYC, but then they are from Dunkin' Donuts or Au Bon Pain or some other huge chain). The Post's Chris Erikson explains:
The smaller bagel: "chewy and toothsome, with a burnished, blistered crust and the flavor of high-quality, high-gluten flour"Some NYC customers expect huge bagels, even though they really weren't meant to be that way. Apparently bagels got bigger to feed "whitebread" tastes, and some bagel makers use a scary sounding "dough conditioner" that gives bagels their "product softness ('Reddi-Sponge' some old-timers call it) and extend shelf life." Good God! Gothamist always assumed big bagels represented the bounty of the city, and during our carb-conscious consciousness, we've opted for bialys - or scooped out the white flesh from the big bagels. But now we know!
The bigger, new-fangled bagels: "an oversized mass of sweetened dough, with a pale exterior soft as a feather pillow."
Do you go for big bagels or smaller ones? And where do you get your favorite bagels? The Post has suggestions on where to get the smaller kinds (including Bruce's Bagels in Brooklyn and Murray's in Manhattan); Gothamist's favorite used to be Columbia Bagels, but that's closed. And the NY Times' Dan Barry follows up on [F]-Line Bagels; it's only for Times Select, so we've cut-and-pasted a choice bit below.
When they were done, two sleek neon signs announced to a fairly desolate corner in Carroll Gardens the addition of a new business: F Line Bagels. The F was encased in the same distinctive orange circle that helps riders to pinpoint the stops along the F train route, including the one at Smith Street, directly opposite this new store.Gothamist on F Line Bagels.F Line Bagels opened in February 2005. A month or so later, a man stopped by. He asked for a menu and then he asked for a business card, which is not the same as asking for a bagel with cream cheese.
"Are we in some kind of trouble?" Faried Assad, one of the partners, recalls asking. He also recalls the succinct answer: "Yes."
The man identified himself as a lawyer for the Metropolitan Transportation Authority. He pointed at the signs, the straps, the tiles - the very subway-ness of the store - and said it was all the authority's intellectual property.
....
THE two sides reached a settlement in which the bagel store would pay what Mr. Kelly describes as a nominal licensing fee. But the store dithered for several months before eventually backing out of the deal, he says.
"We couldn't afford it," Mr. Samhan explains. "We're still paying off the signs."
Early last fall, the authority's lawyer returned. Mr. Assad spotted him taking photographs of the store from the sidewalk, and rushed out to confront him. "Get out of here before I take your camera and break it," he remembers yelling, or something to that effect.
Why the anger? Because the man's appearance was "a slap to my face," he says. "You put us in this hole. You put us through this misery. I was highly upset."
The episode did not endear the owners to the authority. "They physically intimidated, or tried to intimidate, a member of the M.T.A. staff," Mr. Kelly said. "Their behavior was despicable and something obviously we wouldn't tolerate." No more Mr. Nice Transportation Authority. Or, as Mr. Kelly put it, "Now we're going to enforce all the rules and regulations."
The cost of the licensing fee went up precipitously. Then, in late November, a judge in Manhattan ordered the bagel store to cover up all transit-related items immediately, and to remove the accessories within 60 days - which means by the end of next week.
add to stumble upon
add to reddit
tweet this
post to facebook
Montague Bagel in Bk Heights has about the best old-school bagel I've had. Beats H&H.
D-Donuts blows.
I know it's heresy around here, but Montreal has WAY tastier bagels. Much smaller, just right amount of chewiness on the inside and crispness on the outside.
Best in NJ -
Hoboken Bagels - Hoboken - 6th and Washington.
Bagel Oven - Red Bank - Monmouth st.
The best bagels are cooked twice to get the crispy outside and soft inside.
I must admit that I love bagels that come from the coffee cart guys that are on nyc corners in the morning and my favorite coffee is from them as well. I know i know they are prob the dirtiest place to get anything but hey its NYC.
Bagel Hole on 7th Ave around 13th St in South Park Slope has excellent, old style (small) bagels. They also don't toast, which is a rule with good bagels.
Funny that the Post would write about this now. I think it was Ed Levine in one of his NY Eats books that mentioned this years ago.
Another explanation for the huge bagels is perceived value. The cost of making a bagel is entirely dependent on labor and machinery (ingredients are only a couple of cents/bagel). That effectively means that a bagel costs no more to make if it is big or small. So, bakers increased the size and charged the same price. Buyers then think they are getting a bargain and buy bagels more often.
I must second the Bagel Hole recommendation. Not too big, often very warm, and fresh.
Hot & Crusty in Grand Central near the southwest entrance makes a very underrated bagel!
Mmm Montreal bagels! Both kinds are excellent in their own ways, but they've evolved in such a different direction from NYC bagels that comparing them is like comparing lemurs and orangutans.
Rolen Bagels on Riverdale Ave in Riverdale has the tastiest bagels I've ever had. It's a daily stop on the way to the subway.
Montreal bagels are a bit too heavy.
I would have to go with H&H, although the 80th & Broadway store seems to be a bit better than the one in the 40s. You can't really get decent bagels elsewhere, as they tend to be some sort of round roll with a hole instead of a bagel. I think part of it is the NYC water.
I think Murray's bagels are the best.
H&H and Ess-A bagels aren't so tasty.
And I've had the bagels from Montague Bagel - they aren't that good, in my opinion.
Kings Highway Bagels on Kings Highway and Ocean Avenue are excellent.
It's gotta be so big that there isn't even a hole.
Like at Montague St Bagels in Bkln Hts, for example. Best ever!! (and I've been around)
Bagel World on Court St in Cobble Hill has my favorite NYC bagel no question.
lately, even bialys seem to have become enormous. even at bagel oasis in queens (still made by hand!) this has been a problem.
It is simply heresy to sugges that there is a better bagel than the Ess-a-Bagel. While it easily tops the charts in terms of size, the bagels are extremely crusty on the outside, with a chewy interior and tremendous flavor. Topped off with cream cheese and the best Nova-lox this side of the atlantic, it is the best bang for your buck in NYC. To suggest that a bagel is inferior merely based on size is heresy. I also must stick by the ess-a-bagel "no toasting" rule. To toast a bagel is remove its essence.
There's a guy named leo who has a bagel truck on the corner of 69th and York. sure it's quite a hike, but his bagels are delicious, and he has yet to divulge where he gets them from. bummer.
Agree with vermillion, Montreal bagels are an entirely different culinary species, probably closer in genetics to the older NY-style bagels. Denser, slightly sweeter, smaller, fewer varieties but a more generous coating of poppy or sesame seeds.
The single best thing about Fairmount in Montreal is that the bagels are almost always fresh out of the oven, something rarely seen even in the good bagel places in NYC. A warm bagel a few minutes from the oven is always 10 times better than one that's been sitting out for a while.
Another vote for MTL bagels. Montreal's everything bagels are the best I've ever had of its kind...Fairmont Bagels, go there next time you're up there.
Kossar's, people. Kossar's.
The best place as far as I'm concerned is Terrace Bagels right here in Windsor Terrace, Brooklyn.
But when the took one of the old "Redbird" subway cars down to the Mall in Washington D.C. for an exhibit on NYC life, they selected a bagel from a place on Coney Island Avenue near Avenue U, just south of the Sahara restaurant, the Sultan of all Kabobs. Park Slope? Now if you've been elsewhere.
It's not so much a matter of big versus small as soft versus appropriately chewy (the result of boiling before baking).
One of the things I've always noticed when out of the city is how out-of-town bagels don't have the New York bagel bottom that, for me, defines a real bagel. You know, that sort of matte finish a classic bagel has on its undercarriage.
I had a bagel last year at a place above the Newkirk Ave. subway station that was authentic and seemed pretty good. (Made on the premises and all that.)
Going farther afield, Brick Lane in London, is, I guess, now known for Indian food (witness the newish Indian restaurant, Brick Lane, on East 6th), but it still has a couple of bagel places that have lingered since the days when it was in a Jewish area (and at least one of them is like a hundred and fifty years old). They make "real" bagels but they're still not New York bagels in quality, presumably because they don't have our water. (Supposedly, that's the secret of our pizza dough, too.)
This is a post I wrote on my own blog about Brick Lane bagels: http://andrewjlederer.com/2006/01/best-bagel-for-making-sandwich-with_11.html
That place on Coney Island Avenue has the best bialys on Earth. I think the place is just called "Hot Bagels."
"This is a post I wrote on my own blog about Brick Lane bagels: http://andrewjlederer.com/2006/01/best-bagel-for-making-sandwich-with_11.html"
********************************
Boy, it's my own sentence but it just hits me wrong. I guess you post "on" your blog and write "in" it. "Wrote on my own blog" possesses the wrongness which used to be brandished by adults who worried their kids might be "taking" marijuana.
Forgive me.
"That place on Coney Island Avenue has the best bialys on Earth. I think the place is just called 'Hot Bagels.'" Posted by: Joclyn
**********************************
The "Ray's Pizza" of bagel place names.
Kossars makes an old school bagel. Those masss produced sponges ie. Dunkin Donuts are a disgrace. They use a steam oven process invented by Murray Lender that cuts out the entire boiling process.
Also, can someone tell me where Starbucks get their bagels - they totally SUCK.
When I was a kid, I preferred bialys to bagels. There's a seriously diminished bialy consciousness in this city. Bagel primacy has all but shut out free palate competition in the Jewish roll marketplace.
*********************************
BTW, in my earlier post, I used the sentence, "This is a post I wrote on my own blog about Brick Lane bagels: http://andrewjlederer.com/2006/01/best-bagel-for-making-sandwich-with_11.html"
I know it's my own sentence but it just hits me wrong. You post "on" your blog and write "in" it. "Wrote on my own blog" possesses the wrongness which used to be brandished by adults who worried their kids might be "taking" marijuana.
Forgive me.
Bagels are overrated. Waffles rule.
I'm with poster 'more than just bialys'. Kossar's Bialystoker in the LES makes 'em the old fashioned way. I've never been to Montreal, but if I'm ever there, glad for the info. Anyone who thinks coffee cart bagels, starbucks bagels, or dunkin donuts bagels are even remotely in the same league as anything resembling a good bagel has never actually eaten, or appreciated eating, a good bagel. I'm no purist, but those things are beyond bad.
Cmon people. Everyone knows that bagels (and Pork Stores) are the only thing Staten Island does better than the rest of the city. For hot, squishy, incredibly tasty, fresh made on-premises bagels, try any of the various delis along Hylan Blvd or Annadale Road. You dont even need any spread on them- Just eat em plain.
H&H is my fave, but not the one on the West Side Hwy but the one at 80th & B'way. They are always soft and tender, not chewy like most that I've run across in the city. I tend to stick with poppy seed, everything or sesame seed because their other flavors are a little on the bland side for my tastes.
I'm not a fan of the smaller ones because they tend to be overkneeded and have the consistency of leather. I'm sorry but all the Brooklyn places that I've tried (including the Bagel Hole) all seem to want to add too much stuff into the dough and it just doesn't work. They lose that bagel-y flavor and instead taste like a funky type of bread. As for Staten Island, I think the other poster must like the taste of garbage because that's all that's in that borough.
I was strangely pleased to see all the comments about Montreal bagels. When seeing this article, I thought I'd have to weigh in and comment on the difference between Montreal (dense, slightly sweet) vs Toronto (pretty much glorified white bread) style bagels.
Montreal bagels win hands down, every time. But - I'd welcome a MTL vs NYC bagel-off.
I used to LOVE the bagels from the place at the Newkirk Avenue stop (also called "Ray..." err.. "Hot Bagels.") Their coffee kind of sucked really hard, though, and their cold cuts were always sorta questionable.
Cmon people. Everyone knows that bagels (and Pork Stores) are the only thing Staten Island does better than the rest of the city. For hot, squishy, incredibly tasty, fresh made on-premises bagels, try any of the various delis along Hylan Blvd or Annadale Road. You dont even need any spread on them- Just eat em plain.
Posted by: VM | January 11, 2006 10:26 PM
*****************************************
Squishy?!
The best bagels are from Jersey.
I have YET to find a decent bagel in manhattan.
NJ bagels are HUGE though! Perfect amount of chewiness and bubbly crustiness though.
I heard bagels in New York are the size of tractor-trailer tires.
LI has good ones. Bagel Boss? Anyone? :)
When I was a kid, I preferred bialys to bagels.
There's a seriously diminished bialy consciousness in this city. Bagel primacy has all but shut out free palate competition in the Jewish roll marketplace.
BTW, earlier in this thread, I used the sentence, "This is a post I wrote on my own blog about Brick Lane bagels."
I know it's my own sentence but it just hits me wrong. You post "on" your blog and write "in" it. "Wrote on my blog" possesses the kind of wrongness brandished by the adults of yesteryear who worried their kids might be "taking" marijuana.
Forgive me.
I live in Jersey and commute and I find that most of the Manhattan bagel joints along my route are rubbish, so in this case I want value-for-money, or the larger ones. However in my hometown (Maplewood, NJ) there are three bagel stores and I certainly prefer the smaller, sweeter boiled-first-then-baked kind, which are smaller.
Is there a Google Map of proper bagel shops in NYC? Can we make one? Someone take the ball here.
Terrace Bagels on 9th avenue in Brooklyn are old school, and they're still huge. Best bagels around.
The deli on 3rd avenue and St. Marks makes the new, big fluffy ones. No good.
Hightone Cafe, 40th bt bway and 6th.
I had a delicious pumpernickel bagel from F-Line two days ago. It sufficiently exercised my jaw.
My family has always called any bagel that's not small and chewy "Goyishe Bagels," presumably because non-Jews are satisfied with crappy bagels. Cinnamon raisin, fine, but sunflower seed? Blueberry? St. Patrick's green? Gag.
Also, my family has been getting our bialys at Kossar's for several generations. I haven't ever tried a bialy that wasn't from Kossar's.
I don't equate bagels and bialys; they're different doughs, with different flavors and purposes.
Montague Bagels in Bklyn Heights is pretty good. I've also gotta give a huge rave to Tal Bagels on 1st Ave. btw. 54th & 55th Sts. in Manhattan. They also don't toast.
However, the best bagels can be found at Monroe Bagels & Deli in Monroe, NY...just perfect, and their coffee is fantastic, too.
i gave up bagels & cream cheese for new year's. *snif*
Bergen Bagels at Flatbush and Bergen has the best bagels I have had in NYC.
I'm a fan of Murray's multigrain and H&H's everything bagels when they're hot. Totally different -- but hey, it depends on my mood and where I am in the city. Also -- I agree with posters who have said that bialys are underrated. Let's raise some bialy consciousness around here, shall we?
dbdtron: Is Bagel Boss on Old Country Road in a strip mall? If so, I've been there (good bagel, too).
My father grew up in Montreal, and I always thought my relatives there were delusional for thinking so highly of Montreal bagels.
A hot fresh bagel is good from anywhere in NYC, especially H&H, Ess-a-Bagel, and Pick-a-Bagel.
I live in Jersey and commute and I find that most of the Manhattan bagel joints along my route are rubbish, so in this case I want value-for-money, or the larger ones. However in my hometown (Maplewood, NJ) there are three bagel stores and I certainly prefer the smaller, sweeter boiled-first-then-baked kind, which are smaller.
Posted by: Scott | January 12, 2006 09:55 AM
***********
Isn't "I live in Jersey" and "I want value-for money" kinda repetitive?
Nisey79: Yes indeed.. It's a franchise that dots the island. It's all about their everything bagel.. gotta luv the kosher salt!
dbdtron
You guys are totally making me homesick. I've been living in Shanghai for four years and haven't had a decent bagel since I got here. The only bagels available are frozen Lender's bagels. Can you think of anything more horrifying? And people who aren't from NYC can't understand why I refuse to eat them. I remember Ess-a-Bagel very fondly... so yummy...
Re: size. Once you've lived outside the U.S. for a while, you realize EVERYTHING in the States is too too big. Americans (including New Yorkers)like to eat ridiculously big portions; everytime I come home to visit, I gain so much weight. Even "small" bagels seem huge.
The real tragedy is NYC "Hot Pretzels" are no longer "bagels."
I'm glad someone brought up the debate on flavored versus plain or seeded bagels. My question is, is it pumpernickle if it doesn't have onions? I know it's a matter of taste, but it seems to me that only the genuine article have onions. And a nice toasty exterior. Perfect with fresh cream cheese or farmer's cheese. The purists in my family would have them with lox on top with a slice of tomato and an onion. Size-wise, the bagel shouldn't be much bigger than the slice of beefsteak tomato and onion. Otherwise, you miss the flavorful bite. Mmmmmm.
Don't really get the point of this thread. Even at their best, bagels kinda suck. I mean, a bagel is something you eat when you don't have time to cook or seek out real food. It's easy and convenient, but there nothing to it. Bagels are things we should never or rarely even notice. They're not worth thinking about, though.
>LI has good ones. Bagel Boss? Anyone? :)
Bagel Boss (the main one in Hicksville) is great at the best of times. In the middle of the night, when most bagel stores in the city that supposidly never sleeps are closed, nothing in the world beats a hot BB bagel fresh out of the oven.
Montreal bagels are the best, hands down. I was so very disappointed with their NY cousins. Couldn't believe how unsatisfactory they were! When in Montreal, try the yummy St. Villateur bagels. Oldest bagel bakery in Montreal. They only make two kinds: sesame sesame and poppy seed. Once you've had one, you'll never want another kind.
I can't believe only ONE of you got this right... "Bergen Bagels at Flatbush and Bergen has the best bagels I have had in NYC."
Exactly. And if you MUST be in Manhattan, Ess-a-bagel is the king. Pick-A-Bagel on 2nd is ok, so is Tal. But H&H, aka "sugar bagels" are a scam. Don't be taken in by the rep, they are not good bagels.
And back to Brooklyn, Bagel World on Court Street has bagels that look good, but flunk the taste test and don't even toast well.
everybody in brooklyn talked me about kings highway bagels...and believe me that are the best bagels even in whole ny. Are fresh, hot, soft, all kind of flavors, and the personal who works there are very nice. I really recomend this bagels to you.