Gothamist: The City Takes the Morning Train - and Bus!

pugsley

Fri, 23 Dec 2005 13:55:34 -0500

Just another example of lefty kooks hijacking a union board and shooting themselves in the foot. The TWU needs to elect some common sense candidates more focused on the needs of the rank and file rather than making quixotic political statements at the expense of new yorkers. Roger has waged a 3 million dollar organizing campaign paid for by small business owners. nothing more.

jc

Fri, 23 Dec 2005 13:19:25 -0500

I have to second Anonymous's surprise at comments like "bring us to our knees" and "nuclear option." It demonstrates to me the MTA's and the mayor's success in manipulating public sentiment, establishing a dominant rhetoric for discussing the strike, and focusing all attention on the TWU as the bad actors. Ascribing the strike to a choice made by the TWU is a limited view of what happened. It gets us angry to think that a union unilaterally made a decision that negatively affects other workers in this city, and it creates a chain of thought that sees a bad outcome and attributes it to a bad decision arising from bad motivations. This line of thinking is exactly what the MTA wants us to follow. The MTA wants to blind us to its own key role in causing the strike. The MTA wasn't a passive victim of the decision to strike, as regular New Yorkers were; its own decisions about what to bring to the bargaining table and how to negotiate were a direct cause of the strike.

i hate nykers

Fri, 23 Dec 2005 13:03:40 -0500

new yorkers are spoiled, unappreciative, egotistical, have a sense of hateful self-entitlement, rude, obnoxious and complain more than any other urbanites. just be glad you're not in iraq! stoooooooooooooPID!

David

Fri, 23 Dec 2005 12:14:57 -0500

So it sounds like you (Anon @11:50 and 12:05) agree that the polls make no logical sense - which is why I said it was sad/weird and inexplicable.

Fri, 23 Dec 2005 12:05:01 -0500

To further expand on my point: Many people never look at the big picture the way you are doing. Why do so many poor people play the lottery? It actually hurts them in the end, but the promise of big money is all they see, they don't even realize how much $$ they've lost. I'd really recommend Barbara Ehrenreich's book Nickel and Dimed. You'll find pages of examples of how the poor often make decisions that seem to make sense in the short-run but really are destructive to them overall. Part of it is the lack of money that leaves them with no options, but part of it is also not seeing the big picture....not even knowing how to look at life that way.

Fri, 23 Dec 2005 11:50:59 -0500

David, All politics is local. They see the mostly colored TWU employees as one of them. So the TWU's struggle is their struggle. Of course everyone knows that MTA executives won't cut their perks. But you and I take that as a given, so to us increased TWU benefits = higher fares. When a fare increase comes around, what do you think blacks and latinos will say in polls? That it is unfair and hurts the working class. And they will be right. Their point will be that the MTA should take the hit, and I guess that's a valid point to make. But it is pie in the sky.

David

Fri, 23 Dec 2005 11:26:27 -0500

Anon - your easy explanation ,doesnt fit the facts - If I struggle for economic security why am I going to take the side of a group of people who HAVE security (no contribution health care, good salaries, and full retirement at FIFTY-FIVE) when they take action that hurts my ability to get security (most middle class people and above will get paid even if late or miss work during strike as opposed to hourly works - domestic, food service, non-union labor etc.. who wont get paid) and if I am disenfranchised (or even if not) I certainly KNOW that the MTA is not going to cut any of their executive perks but rather pass on increased costs to the riders. - if anything middle class and wealthier people should have supported the workers (or at least settling w/ them) from the perspective that any fare increases (or tax) caused by caving in have a tiny (if any effect) on their pocketbook compared to the lost profits caused by reduced buisness caused by the strike. These poll statistics just dont make sense from a logical point of view

Fri, 23 Dec 2005 11:14:56 -0500

Jeebus--whats with you people??? where do you get your information???? They weren't trying to "destroy the city" or bring anyone "to their knees"-- they were trying to be heard!!! I agree with a comment above--they did it even though they knew that THEY'D be hurt the worst, but the two sides have now come closer together. Why should they not strive for competitive compensation like white collar people do? They work harder than most of us desk potatoes! They certainly don't have time to post idealogical arguments on gothamist. For better or worst, the american system is supposed to be set up for people to be heard. If you support it, you have to even when it's inconvenient for you.

Diana

Fri, 23 Dec 2005 10:59:05 -0500

I'm nobody's definition of a morning person so from now on I guess I'm still taking the train to work. But whenever it's good weather I'm walking home -- it was fun, I can get some shopping done along the way, and it gets me out of my neighborhood rut. But for better or worse, the union is screwed. Turns out they can't bring us to our knees, and without a contract Pataki & crew can now get down to making them eat it with the fine print. Only do the nuclear option if you know you can actually destroy the city.

Fri, 23 Dec 2005 10:54:55 -0500

David, Most white New Yorkers are middle class or above, and originally from the suburbs. We mostly have office/corporate jobs and even if we're not making much money now, we have a solid hope/belief our situation will improve as we get older. We see how our parents live and figure we'll get to live like them one day. Many of us can also look forward to selling the family home one day as our inheritance, to cushion our retirement. Most black and latino New Yorkers are lower middle class or below, and they live in neighborhoods where everyone struggles for security their whole lives. That's what they saw in the union's demands: the TWU demanding economic security for their employees. They don't see the math the same way as you do: that higher TWU benefits should automatically = higher fares. Instead, they would ask how come the MTA management doesn't take a reduction in their own benefits to help lift the circumstances of the TWU workers without hitting all commuters with a fare increase. In that sense they're right that MTA management controls the money and they make sure to take care of themselves.

Fri, 23 Dec 2005 10:37:06 -0500

the number 1 this morning was, in fact, number 1.

David

Fri, 23 Dec 2005 10:26:25 -0500

The sad/weird/inexplicable part is that according to NY1 poll 70+% of black and hispanic New Yorkers think that what the transit workers wanted was 'fair' yet 35% of white NYs thought so? Considering I'd bet Black and Hispanic NYs are %wise more dependent on transit and would have to pay (through higher fares) for any wage increases these %s seem very odd.

Anna

Fri, 23 Dec 2005 09:56:32 -0500

Jamon-- I hated the last 3 days too, but all those workers have lost a lot of money, will likely be fined and their holidays will be a little less merry this year--yet they did it anyway: Does that maybe tell you that they felt desperate and taken advantage of and had no other recourse? After fares have risen to a crazy $2 per ride, and THEN we find out about a mysterious surplus, can you not imagine that the MTA is a shady organization that does not have anyones best interest, but their own at heart? Lastly, are you going to spend your life "shutting the fuck up" and letting things slide just to hold on to your little slice of the status quo or will you just once, stand up for something you believe in?

I've had it - not going back to work

Fri, 23 Dec 2005 09:30:40 -0500

I'm sick of walking and its Friday. I'm gonna play poker instead.

Dan

Fri, 23 Dec 2005 09:25:12 -0500

Got a seat on all three of my morning trains(1,6,7) and sat with a shit eating grin the whole way. My biggest fear at the moment is that some idiot is going to assault a conductor or other MTA employee on the job today.

jamon

Fri, 23 Dec 2005 09:20:51 -0500

What did this strike accomplish for the TWU? Now they are reviled, have no contract, and to top it all off will have to make concessions in their pension plans. The MTA wanted new workers to contribute to their pensions but now it looks like current workers will have to contribute to pensions instead. HHAHAHAHAHAAH. You strike to give money back? That is fucking hilarious!!!!!! You should have just shut the fuck up and let new workers take the hit. OMIGOD so IRONIC!!!

getting in shape

Fri, 23 Dec 2005 09:09:19 -0500

i still walked two miles to work today -- i realized over the course of the last three days that the walk takes almost the same amount of time as my train commute. plus, i hate the gym, so why not?

rev pays

Fri, 23 Dec 2005 09:01:33 -0500

Acknowledge the Operators? why would you do that today as opposed to any other day?

Linda

Fri, 23 Dec 2005 08:53:23 -0500

Took the M4 bus down to midtown...smooth and yep no one acknowledged the driver bus...and it was still running on holiday stops which skipped 49th street on 5th avenue...does anyone know if the B trains are running normally?

Fri, 23 Dec 2005 08:41:22 -0500

My commute on the Q train from Brooklyn to Manhattan was quick & easy & uncrowded. People looked tired & no one was dancing with joy on the platform. No one that I saw even acknowledged any of the transit workers on the trains & the platforms. I didn't either. I was happy to have the service back, but extremeley disgusted we had to get put thru the last 3 days.

MT

Fri, 23 Dec 2005 08:40:39 -0500

I drove - by myself. After all the walking I did over the past few days, I could only make it the 20 feet from my front door to my car. Traffic was pretty much non existent coming through Brooklyn.