MTA Hack: Make Your Own Sign!

You can also have custom made subway metal signs made for you at www.underground-signs.com

A good way to create professional looking fake signs is to use www.online-sign.com

You can customise any type of sign with your own text then print or save it as a pdf. It doesnt cost anything, and there is no sign up or other restrictions.

"The entire system was devised by the great Massimo Vignelli in the early 70s" when he was employed by Unimark International.

I know everyone forgot about this thread a while ago im sure... but I just started writing a term paper about the typography/lettering in the NYC subway. The font originally used on the subway signage was called Standard (before america had Akzidenz Grotesk). The entire system was devised by the great Massimo Vignelli (http://www.vignelli.com/vignel... in the early 70s. Yes, today Helvetica is the font used, but you can still see Akzidenz used on original signs and the R in the yellow circle. I get this information from Paul Shaw who teaches the history of typography at the School of Visual Arts in Manhattan and is personal friends with Massimo... so he must be right! Also, originally the signs were supposed to be black type on white, but was changed last minute to aid against grafitti. How strange would that have looked!

The MTA's signage was originally Akzidenz, but now there's Helvetica mixed in. Half the station signs (the older ones) are in Akzidenz, but more recent signs use Helvetica. The picture on the helveticafilm site is Helvetica, trust me. It's at the corner of 5th Avenue and 23rd street, right by the Flatiron Building.

Cheers,

-Gary

The most apparent difference between Akzidenz-Grotesk and Helvetica lies in the leg of capital R's. Helvetica's R does a little squiggly dance.

I stumbled on this post because there will be a feature length Helvetica documentary come next year to celebrate the 50th anniversary of its design to supplant AG. One of the curious photographs on the website shows a New York City subway station sign. This will no doubt raise some eyebrows.

http://helveticafilm.com

merry Xmas, the trains are back :)

Here's a nice, illustrated history of sans-serif typography that shows the very first of Thorowgood's faces, which he dubbed "Grotesque" -- probably largely by analogy with "Gothic" rather than an aesthetic judgement.

Let's try to stem the confusion that's already running rampant in this thread.

Yes, and the trolling.

Adam: Based on the J, my guess is Futura Extra Bold Condensed.

does anyone care to identify the face used here?

name this face

I believe it was Professor Dmitiri Schaudenfreude who first designed the typeface Aksidental-Degulasse commissioned by the Capetian dynasty in 1635 that eventually evolved into Extrema Bold Black sans serif after some extensive tinkering by Mame Lopez-Chang and her partner Ronaldinho during the 1930s. Hence, my love for Dingbats.

In regards to Paul's misinformation and misspelling of "Azikendz Grotesque"---

Akzidenz-Grotesk was designed by Günter Gerhard Lange in the year 1896. In German, Akzidenz means trade type and Grotesk means sans serif. And, I really doubt that out of all the trades 100 years ago, typographers couldn't keep accurate records of who designed which font. They were the backbone of the printing industry with easy access to professional printing methods. They were constantly producing type catalogs.

Santos:

if you wish to stem the confusion rampant in this thread, please start with your own post. As scott said, its Univers (and not even pronounced 'Universe'). Even those who get the pronunciation wrong still spell it right.

I don't understand your additional comments. Are you debating the fact that Frutiger designed Univers?

Adrian Frutiger designed Univers, Frutiger, and the fantastic Avenir, among many others.

Re: Scott's comment regarding the spelling and/or historical accuracy:

Scott, I don't think you're being entirely fair here. You and I both know that the legacy of typefaces is not entirely known--more than two hundred years have passed since the first was invented, and many details have since been lost. Even Nick Findley agrees that the "whos" and "whats" are a bit murky.

As for Universe and Frutiger, I have a hard time believing that it's mere coincidence that one of the most popular fonts today (namely, Frutiger) also happens to be the name of a person who designed Universe. Let's try to stem the confusion that's already running rampant in this thread.

I liked the 'Do not bomb Iraq' stickers on the doors. But they didn't work.

The thing I like about Azikendz Grotesque is that it has a nice, solid, strong sound to the name. Reminds me of Hitler or something. Anytime I bring it up in a meeting the client is always impressed with the font name. Anybody could use common fonts like Helvetica...but that's one thing that really sets me apart is my ability with a large range of fonts like this one.

If you want to know exactly how many people in the world care about these details, just count the number of people participating in this post.

i have fallen in love with the "do not fall in love" stickers... if you haven't seen them, here is a not-great photo of one: http://flickr.com/photos/janelle/26212763/

Why not use http://www.myfonts.com/WhatTheFont/ to solve this?

actually, max miedinger designed it. hoffman told him to.

Uh, talk about novice confusion, Paul Santos, you might want to check your facts before you start schooling people.

Akzidenz-Grotesk (note the spelling) was designed in 1896 by Berthold. Univers (note the spelling) was designed Frutiger in the 1950s and Helvetica was designed by Hoffman in the 1950s.

I've seen a sign emulating the "Don't lean on the door" signs saying "Don't fall in love" with a crossed out heart. The spacing was a bit off, but it still took me a minute or two in the train to notice it overlaid on top of the original.

Also, Illustrator is annoying to use just to play with PDFs... for simple stuff using Acrobat Pro is easier. And for the most user-friendly way to append text on top of a PDF (on a Mac, natch), check out FormMate. If you ever find a need to fill out a PDF form that doesn't have online forms built into it, this program is completely worth the license fee.

I'm noticing a lot of novice confusion with regards to the spelling of Azikendz Grotesque. Azikendz is the last name of the original font designer from the '20's who created what would later become Universe (contrary to the previous commenter who suggested that it became Helvetica). As for the Grotesque portion of the name, that's actually a reference to the perception of the font at the time of its release. People had become so visually comfortable with serifed fonts that the total lack of serifs in Azikendz's new typeface was literally perceived as "grotesque."

Carry on.

you may want to read

http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/31814.htm

http://ltvsquad.com/AE/SubwayPosters/index.php

If you see something....

I believe the first person to do this was SWATCH in the early 90's with his "free marker week" signs...

I did my own sign. Perhaps we could have some sort of contest for best fake sign?

The Alligator Lounge in Williamsburg sells shirts made by one of the bartenders that is the first and still funniest exmample of this I've ever seen. It basically says the L train isn't running ever again between where you are and where you want to be. The details are hysterical. He chanced the mta web site into www.we.couldnt.care.less.com

this is my favorite gothamist comment thread. EVER.

Thank you...I'm this much closer to my dream poster, "YOUR PENIS ISN'T THAT BIG. PLEASE CLOSE YOUR LEGS."

Speaking of which, does the MTA employ a copywriter with a special MLA-type list of sixth grade reading level standards?

What Kevin said...

The MTA is like most any company nowadays, and they surely have inhouse designers and outside firms/freelancers.

And this nerd-bashing over typefaces (don't want to ire the font-sensitive) is hillariously out of touch with the way most offices work.

Typical scenario:

"Hey, make a sign..."

"What font is that?"

"I dunno, looks like that Helvetica."

"Good enough, 'Out of Service'. DONE! Now, when's lunch?"

Wow, you losers need to get laid or something.

This is almost as good as when Bush had the design-your-own-campaign-poster option on his website and everyone started posting obscene Bush/Cheney posters on the web. :-)

Akzidenz G. can be found on the 1970s-era MTA signage, but alas, they've gone over to the more generic Helvetica in recent years.

www.forgotten-ny.com

How about this for a fake MTA sign?

"IF YOU SMELL SOMETHING, TAKE A SHOWER."

these are the fonts used in all the current MTA ads and posters:

Helvetica Compressed

Helvetica Medium

Helvetica Black

Helvetica Neue Bold Italic

NYCTABullet

the serif font: is Times New Roman MT Condensed (but it's bastardized meaning the designer wanted to use a thininner more condensed font and in Illustrator, condensed it more, it look horrible. Personaly I woud have used Century Schol Book Condensed as teh serif font.

--

The grammar of the posters and usually their usage of the font(s), tracking , kerning and leading is very poor. they also, freuently use an inch symbol (can't illustrate here) rather than an apostrophe.

the signs lack emotion as well, but they're often from an informative design standpoint, which is good.

I have the 1970 New York City Transit Authority Graphics Standards Manual (don't ask) and the font for station signs and line letters is called "Standard Medium" which is very close to Akzidenz Grotesk.

This is worse than a Star Trek convention.

Wow, you type nerds are tetchy. Just for fun, I'm going to put a serif on the MTA helvetica and post it. That should make you spit your espresso all over your Italian loafers.

All of you type amateurs completely missed the two gaffes on the first poster. The apostrophes are straight quotes, and the double hyphens at the end are used in place of an em dash.
    As for the Akzidenz and Helvetica controversy, I suggest some of you open your eyes and look at the lowercase a of both typefaces. Look again. It’s pretty clear which one is correct. If you need help, try using Monotypes’s visual typeface search tool.

Does anyone know if the MTA employs any in-house graphic designers? If so how many?

I would guess yes but don't really have any way of knowing for sure.

The version of Aksidenz Grotesk that Vignelli used was officially called 'Standard Medium'. Helvetica wasn't widely used in the US at that point.

and for fucks sake, its TYPEFACE, not font. call the digital file what you please, but otherwise get it right.

Regarding the fonts, you're all right!

The font confussion comes from the fact that while Aksidenz Grotesk is the speced out font, but--as more often than not happens--the signage nowadays has strayed as far as possible from the original specifications.

Do you think a Subway system that can't clean up after itself in many stations has the discipline to follow design/font standards?

Both of the two confession style posters that you linked are in fact from group hug:

http://grouphug.us/confessions/629308286

and

http://grouphug.us/confessions/264632582

Doesn't make them any less brilliant.

Not sure if they've switched to Helvetica for the new signs but this article says the original design used Aksidenz Grotesk.

"With all the Vignelli-inspired signs in their bold, '60s-looking sans serif (a version of Aksidenz Grotesk, the precursor of Helvetica), there's a consistency to much of the signage in New York's underground."

It's Helvetica, bitches. We learned about it in design school. Akzidenz Grotesk... sheesh.

the heavy black font looks like Franklin Gothic Bold or Black to me, but could be Akzidenz.

the MTA used to have a font called NYCTABullet that had the actual glyphs for all the lines, including the diamond express trains. unfortunately, I think my last copy of it seems to be corrupt :-(

-p

You can download a PDF version of all of the service announcements on the MTA web site.

Then all you need is a copy of Illustrator and the corrrect fonts and you too can create a DIY subway advisory sign.

The one I opened up uses the following:


Helvetica


Helvetica-Black


Helvetica-Bold


Helvetica-Compressed


Helvetica-Oblique


Helvetica-UltraCompressed


HelveticaNeue-BoldItalic


NYCTABullet

Also, the current signage was designed by Massimo Vignelli who also created the Bloomingdales "Big Brown Bag".

cool. i love listening to the art nerds in my company talk about fonts. it's like the brokers talking about sports or titty bars and the girls talking about shoes & bags.

That would be Akzidenz Grotesk - and Illustrator is your friend with all PDF's.

unfortunately, aksidenz grotesk is only available for like 500 dollars online... but if you look hard enough you can get it for free.

Actually, the font is a version of Aksidenz Grotesk, a precursor to Helvetica.

Helvetica. Occasionally (e.g. at the temporary PATH terminal at WTC) Myriad. Don't know about the serif, though.