Bunch of wanna-be gangsters who liked (but probably failed) art class. Wanna be a real artist, make something that will sell. Wanna do some self-expression, do it on your on time, in your own house.

waitaminute. In Marc Ecko's new videogame does the player have to apply for a permit to spray on a legally sanctioned canvas everytime the videogame character sprays stuff? Then when the player gets rejected do you have to press up down left right to initiate legal proceedinggs to uphold your first amendment rights to spraypaint on private party murals? cause that would be a pretty fucking boring game.

ok one more.

Brightliner: understood. Maybe bad examples, pick one that will work. KKK maybe. All I know is that I'm very much not down with racism nor are many people but that didn't change the fact that they got to march in Chicago when I was 13. I dealt with it, understanding that it would hurt the country more to restrict free speech more than letting some red neck crackers have their garbage out in the open for 2 hours, only to go back to being marginalized the next day. But, in this specific scenario, if you can't see that the city had no case after brushing up on the 1st amendment, I can't help you. Judges DO disagree, that's why it's such a big deal with these Supreme Court nominations, however, the rules are rules, and the man who ruled on the case said the city had NO case. The city tried to appeal, to no avail, so I'm assuming they either figred it out on their own or another judge asked them if they were nuts..again.

"Imagine after a hard days work of spraypainting a mural someone comes along and sprays, Oh let's see, what's really uncool? umm... the backstreet boys all over the graffitti guy's work. give them a taste of their own medicine."

all I can say to this is that they may get a taste of their own medicine this way, but I guaruntee it won't stop there; chalking it up to a lesson learned. That $hit will get sorted. weather someone gets taken out or the beef gets squashed, but nobody's going home to get mom to call the mean kid's parents.

hijiki...I digress. i do infact understand the event may shed a positive light on ecko as a brand to their demographic, whcih may infact mean a few more hoodies sold this fall. i don't what to tell you other than that we're all trying to eat. And if i get succcessfull at something I love to do, I'm sure as hell not going to stop doing something I feel strongly about just to save face for a few haters. I think it would be a different story if dood wasn't giving any love to the creators/legends or trying to put them in the spotlight and lift them up along the way, but that's what the event was really about. Some may disagree with that interpretation, but the artists who should be the most offended if their culture were being exploited, were emphatically down for this event.

But since this has gotten so far away from the original debate. I'm done. I really can't state my arguemnet any more clearly. It's been fun.

ps, no hard feelings towards anyone. And sorry for the time warp lingustics.

BUT, the Judge said it best with the West Side Story example. that certainly doesn't discourage gang life, only dcuments it a way

West Side Story didn't "document" gangs in any way, shape or form. It was a work of fiction. And its characters paid dearly for that "gang life," with one death and several lives destroyed by the end. Hardly a glamorous depiction.

You can't really argue this. the judicial branch spoke.

The "judicial branch" didn't speak. One judge spoke. Judges aren't always right and often disagree with each other. Or don't you notice that the Supreme Court almost never makes unanimous decisions and that we have a multi-tiered system where decisions are often reversed by higher courts. Even former Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens today said he disagrees with many of the Court's recent decisions and even some of the decisions he made when he was on the court.

as an art critic and a skateboarder I can honestly say that the graffiti in marc ecko's show is moronic and stupid. San Francisco kicks your ass in graffitti

I know this will be unpopular but here goes it. There is bad graffiti and there is good graffiti, whether it is legal or illegal is irrelevant. Just because you do art on the street that doesn't make your art not art and all of a sudden it is vandalism. It may be illegal but god it would be shallow to just say its not art cause its illegal. THere is plenty of street art that is witty, smart, and compliments the environment. Almost all art was illegal at some point or another. So this idea that it is graffiti art if its legal and graffiti vandalism if its the same graffiti but done outside is absurd. You're either good or not. Some public art looks great, some doesn't. But I don't mind putting up with the ugly shit to get the gems. Face it people, it's part of being in a free and democratic society. Graffiti, the illegal kind, if it needs a defense is this: It is the ultimate form of free expression. It is not bought, censored or subject to review. I have to say that most graffiti writers write on shit that is already derelect or destroyed.

Yeah. graffitti on privately sanctioned canvases is like having sex with your clothes on. It doesn't make sense. The whole point of graffitti is sticking it to the MAN! I personally would love it if someone graffittis all over these street rat's graffitti. Imagine after a hard days work of spraypainting a mural someone comes along and sprays, Oh let's see, what's really uncool? umm... the backstreet boys all over the graffitti guy's work. give them a taste of their own medicine.

b.Mackin, while i agree with your stance, you surely realize that even if he wasn't pushing products at this particular event, people will associate his brand (and his name) with the good times he provided and the way he stood up to the man for them. it's definitely lucrative as far as branding goes... not that there's anything wrong with that. i don't think there's much doubt that it will help his sales.

solidarity sP.

bump.

we obviously were not at the same event.

you want to break down the sequence of events and point out a spicific example of how you felt compelled to buy more ecko clothing as a result of yesterday's event. The man threw an event to show love for graffiti. Just to be sure, that's only cool if you're broke?

For the record, why are you so down to protect the legitemacy of something you clearly aren't even that fond of?

ps. he didn't tell Vallone to raise a fuss, this $hit would've been way under the radar had he kept his mouth shut. So how again did Marc "fabricate" a controversey?

Thanks Joe. hijiki - I agree that the politicians are A-holes for forcing the guy into court, but I also think Ecko is an A-hole for bringing his plywood to town and creating a controversy so he can sell more pants. I don't have much else to say about it. For me generally, the only thing I care about is if graffiti artists have something they want to paint, go ahead and paint on my apartment building or wherever, but don't paint those retarded black signature scrawls that have no point or even have any attempt at aesthetics and don't help pants salesmen market themselves.

puglsey is just a hater, and a hypocrite to boot. disregard his rants as you would any other troll's. B., you have proven your point abundantly, dont let this ruin your day. smugsley, go find a bridge to jump off of. please.

pugsley, what mark did was not illegal. what the politicians tried to do was illegal.

it's not about how uncool or how much of a capitalist sellout mr. ecko is because that is definitely not illegal.

"Dood had the money so he put it to a use for something that he believed was to address the greater issue; protection of the 1st amendment. don't get it twisted."

No, he put up the money to address the greater issue; the marketing of pants and video games. don't get it twisted. He actually did a good job in fabricating a false controversy for his own benefit and the politicians took the bait, among other people.

is it uncool to pee sitting down?

pugsley, I misread your post. Sorry about attributing the "banning" remark to you!

DOOD...ECKO IS RUN OUT OF NYC. 23rd STREET LOOK IT UP. If dood is from Jersey initially, what's it matter? Again, I'm from Chicago, If I were to open up a business in Brooklyn, which I may do someday. are you planning on calling me names because I haven't passed your random litmus test? you said "now b. Mackin claims that I hate half the population of NYC" like it's the most rediculous deduction anyone could've made form your post. then you follow that right up with hating on a man becasue he drives across a river. My wife works in jersey city and we stay in brooklyn, is she not allowed to make moves for herself there because the "true school" jersey city residents might get salty. i think this is more about some kind of bull$hit egotistical romanticized idea of "where you from" disease.

It's even more hilarious that in your world, graffiti must live in this anorexic space between rawness and legality. If I and my people were to try and get a permit to do something like thie event, we woudn't have had the money to take it to court to over rule the city. So it woud've never happened. Dood had the money so he put it to a use for something that he believed was to address the greater issue; protection of the 1st amendment. don't get it twisted.

I agree with your last post, however. BUT, the Judge said it best with the West Side Story example. that certainly doesn't discourage gang life, only dcuments it a way, but no one's trying to tie up people who make movies or shows that don't show cops as good guys and robbers as bad guys. Why? becasue that's not in line with the constitution. You can't really argue this. the judicial branch spoke.

Hey Jersey bashers, the Jen Chung is a Jersey girl.

what i don't get is why a party with LEGAL graffitimaking, essentially a *representation* of something illegal, should be supressed.

there are hundreds of representational murders on TV every single damn day.

Do these shows glorify murder? Do they present murder as a wonderful act that should be copied? Do they say there are no consequences if you're caught? Maybe we should have a carjacking party on the street when they launch the next version of Grand Theft Auto, complete with fake cops getting beaten, stabbed and shot.