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Welcome, all, to our own Singapore style police state! From the NY Times:
New York City will begin tomorrow morning randomly checking bags at subway stations, commuter railways and on buses, officials announced today in the wake of the terrorist bombings in London. This is the first time the city has undertaken such a security effort of this scale on the commuter transportation system.Police Commissioner Kelly says, "It might slow individuals down, but we will do it in a reasonable way." Dude, this is opening up about a thousand incidents where people freak out when they see their train coming in and the NYPD is checking is a bag. And don't get Gothamist wrong - we love safety. It's just that our pipedreams of "Dildos by Subway," "Open Bottles of Alcohol Express" and "FDA Unapproved Cheeses Underground" are now practically impossible! So get ready to show off your newspapers, magazines, lunch, "work" shoes, etc. in the coming days.
We can't wait to hear what the Straphangers say, but what do you think?
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We have had the threat of random searches and detentions on the Washington State Ferry systems for a couple years now I just have never seen anyone actually searched or detained.
Frankly, I'm all for it. A couple of days after the London attacks, I was riding the N train and this guy got on and started spouting religious rhetoric in the middle of the car. He also happened to be holding a backpack. I freaked and so did everyone else by the looks of it. People moved to get away from him but of course, due to the new MTA policy of locking doors between cars, we couldn't move to another car (another reason why that's such a great policy!) So I think I would have felt a little more comfortable, if the nice cop at the station had checked his bag.
FASCISTS!!!!! I hope anti-US terrorist recruitment does not go up as a result of measures like these...
What is up with that picture? Where is that from? That dude looks mighty unhappy.
As long as they profile based upon the obvious characteristics of virtually all suicide bombers - i am all for it
ideally, this is a good idea. but all it is going to do is start protests whenever some group think some sort of racial/discriminatory profiling is evident.
I think tomorrow should be Bring Your Dildo to Work Day.
A legal consieration... would NYPD confiscate it?
"We have neither the time nor the inclination to explain ourselves to readers who rise,sleep, commute, blog and reside in Williamsburg under the blanket of the very freedom that we provide and then question the manner in which we provide it.
We would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, we suggest you pick up a weapon and stand the post. Either way, we don't give a DAMN what you think you're entitled to!"
If I see a cop coming toward my bag, I'll hurdle the turnstile or kick out a window and make a break for it!
I predict several lawsuits, possibly working its way up to the Supreme Court. This is blatantly a violation of the Fourth Amendment.
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
oh snap, my weed!
Sure, that makes sense, because terrorists are always in such a hurry that they can't "turn around and walk away" to avoid the search then simply take their bomb-pack to the next subway stop 4 blocks up (unlike those of us who willl inevitably be late for work on our mandatory search day).
This idiocy makes me feel less safe.
Can someone who believes in this horse poop tell me how this could _possibly_ work???
Relax, the secret is that it will only really be concrated near Islamic centers! And if you live there, well then being late for work isn't your only problem, now is it?
Milo -- the objective of this is to make people think the government is doing something. It's security theatre -- so it might work for that objective if we all don't think too much about it.
As the 4th anniversary of 9/11 approaches many NY'ers have forgotten that there are people amongst us who want to murder us..
Be less concerned about your "facist " government trying to protect you and be more concerned about islamofacists trying to kill you..
I hope they stop that irritating looking guy in the photo from getting on the train. He looks like Captain Morgan. This bag check will last about a week before the 'racial profiling' lawsuits come in and the city starts paying out six figure awards to victims whose lives have been irreparably damaged due to having their bag inspected.
Honestly I don't give a sh!t, if it makes people feel safer, the "illusion" of safety, then whatever. What I DO care about is having some under-trained, under-paid, attitude-laden beatcop with a chip on their shoulder and power kick being all nasty wanting to go through my shit.
Be less concerned about your "facist " government trying to protect you and be more concerned about islamofacists trying to kill you..
Thanks, Rush. I was really concerned about the dittohead opinion. You are utterly unconcerned about civil rights and want to remind us to live in fear, thanks for clearing that up, because I wasn't sure.
There is this ongoing fantasy that the NYPD actually knows how to solve and/or prevent crime. All the NYPD knows how to do is arrest Black and Hispanic guys and force them to confess to some unsolved crime. Seriously, when was the last time the NYPD actually solved a crime? In any case of a crime in which the suspect is White, the crime is still unsolved.
Will the NYPD was busy chasing Black Guys around the city, terrorist were freely documenting every aspect of the Citicorp building. And, while the NYPD will be busy searching every Black and Hispanic guy that gets on the subway, any terrorist will be able to just walk right in the system unchecked.
WARNING TO ALL NEW YORK: if you actually want to be safe from terrorism, it might be a good idea to get people who actually know something about investigating crime. ALL THE NYPD KNOWS HOW TO DO IS ARREST BLACK AND HISPANIC GUYS, they are incapable of anything else. All of New York City is at risk becasuse the fahking NYPD is busy chasing Black Guys.
Yeah, we're living in fear. It's not as if we have anything to worry about. New York hasn't been a target of terrorism before, and there's no reason to believe terrorists would target a subway system, of all things. This is all just hype to boost Bush's treasonous patriot act and to further its campaign against our civil rights.
Guys, there are people on this planet that want to incinerate this city and everyone in it, regardless of race, religion, or political persuasion. They don't care how many marches you went on or who you voted for, or the clever anti-bush post you wrote on your blog last week. They want to see this city turned to rubble, and afterward would cheer and throw parties afterward.
I think the NYPD is being entirely reasonable.
Never mind the constitution. Never mind that this does absolutely nothing to stop bombers. All this does is further erode our basic rights to privacy.
Let’s for argument sake say this actually does keep the bombers off of the subway. (I guess the theory is that the villains will be afraid of being caught in these random sweeps of bags and packages, so they’d stay away.) It’s just a matter of time before he or she walks into the middle of Times Square or or the Virgin MegaStore or some other crowded place and pushes the button.
Ridiculous.
Brightliner
So, assuming the cops actually pull this off properly, there would be no 4th Amendment violation. You have a choice - ride the subway and have your bag searched, or walk and keep your privacy.
This will do nothing. We had the FBI, CIA, NSA, CUSTOMS, and other people keeping out terrorists and that never worked, somehow the NYPD is gonna foil a bomb attempt. Someone should be a real politician and explain to the people, there is not much one can do if someone is willing to do a suicide attack. This is even explained to the president by secret service.
plenty of people complaining here but precious few ideas about what the city should be doing
i'm skeptical that searching bags will do much good as well, but this is counterproductive discussion here
Bucky, this week's New Yorker looks at the NYPD and concludes that in a lot of ways it's way ahead of the FBI and other feds on dealing with terrorism
mrf -- if something is a bad idea, it's worth pointing it out. And if no one has good ideas, the best thing to do is do nothing. Don't spend public money and waste people's time with security theatre. It might be hard for politicians to accept that, but if you or anyone can't think of something effective, don't just do something ineffective to make up for it.
Look, basically we're screwed. The only thing we have going for us is that there are not as many disenfranchised Muslims here as there are in London. All that talk about London knowing how to deal with terrorists from their years against the IRA, and all their present security and MI5, and look where it got them - not a clue that it was going to happen. Do you think the US is any more competent? I think not.
How about this for an idea? Let's put 1 person back in the original operator booths (behind the glass partition with all the security camera monitors) and have them keep an eye out for anything suspicious, instead of 2 agents who are busy rummaging through the backpacks of people who willingly volunteer for the search.
"plenty of people complaining here but precious few ideas about what the city shold be doing"
My idea is to do nothing. People die. they die from heart disease , natural disasters, war, CARS, smoking, eating and drinking. The fact that a minuscule number of people die from terrorists just has to be a fact. We don't stop doing any of the other above activities even though we know they cause death. Some people die from heart attacks and some from bombs. There is no point to wondering how you're going to go so don't. I would much rather have my freedom than a false sense of security from something i don't fear anyway. On another note, i wouldn't mind random searches if bombs were the only thing they could arrest you on. It would be pretty funny having a cop hand me back my weed with a smile on his face and a have a nice day sir.
Yeah, right. That'll really stop the terrorists. So somebody declines to be searched. He's not allowed past the turnstiles. What's to stop him from going out and walking a few blocks to the next subway station? Or jumping onto a bus packed with people, a la "The Interpreter"?
they are not going to search that "preacher" in the middle of the car.
who they will search are all the ladies in their see through linen tops and micro minis because as we know it's the one's that we don't assume to be suicide bombers that needs to be watched closely.
I suspect, many of them will smell your pumps and take a look see at your tampon count and if you're using the heavy flow or lightdays.
take a cab, bike, carpool, do not take public mass transit.
Funny Chris the last time the non-black and non-hispnic guys wanted to blow up our subways it was the NYPD that caught them, - hurts the theory doesnt it -
you mean that cop who wanted to be a "hero" and planted said bag at a platform so he could "save" the day?
waste my tax dollars. invade my privacy. scare me with your police state. squander the liberties this country was founded on and tell me it's for my own good.
i hate new york.
Let's say you get something gift-wrapped and are bringing it to a friends party, do you have to unwrap it, or are gift wrapped items excempt somehow ... ?
Are they going to search all the cans of the recycling guy making his daily thousand can trip?
Do we really want to see some paranoid bag lady get randomly selected and the ensuing 2 hour argument?
Remember how they used to claim that the terrorists hated us because of our freedom. I think that is the element that procedures like this are trying to clear up. Once our lifestyle is not worthy of envy, then all the terrorism should stop, right?
I think all those "home-delivery" weed couriers will be taking the subway a lot less...
Look, there are too many entrances and too many stations. Unless you have everyone open their bag on the way in like at a rock concert, I don't see it doing more than being reassuring. Further, this seems like one of those Patriot Act sort of things where they'll be using it on ordinary citizens way more often than terrorists. Remember what Ben Franklin said, "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security"
Here's a simple solution: separate subway cars for people who are willing to have their bag inspected and for those who aren't. Then when Abdul blows up his backpack he'll only kill a bunch of whiny hipsters.
I love when people who want to protect their own privacy have no problem letting somebody "sketchy" get their bag searched.
I have the best and the ultimate solution to terrorism in NYC and all of the other problems facing New York City today, i.e., force all the White Trash Losers in NYC to move the fahk out! This, of course, would include the biggest White Trash Losers of the all, the fahking NYPD (although they don't actually live in New York City do they? They just infect the city with their White Trash stank).
No one will care if Blacks and Hispancis are the victims of suicide bombers.
you're so cute, nola. and as usual, you're ability to inaccurately stereotype anyone who values the civil liberties that make america what it is as 'whiny hipsters' is laughable. you must be really scared to throw tax dollars at a problem that money will obviously never fix. um... wait... what's conservative about that again?
If we cannot have complete success 100% of the time, we should do nothing at all.
Ben Franklin was the biggest whiniest hipster of them all OBVIOULSY
OK, conservatives and republicans, let's try this the other way around. What measures would be too intrusive for you to tolerate in the fight against terrorism.
Anything? What is your limit? I really want to know.
I'm all for it. This minor inconvenience is certainly better than death -- or worse, life without a limp.
"If we cannot have complete success 100% of the time, we should do nothing at all."
I'm not saying that. I'm saying that you should never violate the 4th Amendment. Ever. Especially for ineffective drama.
Milo, these people don't have a limit. They guess that that other people, y'know, the shady ones, are going to be the ones getting searched.
"I'm all for it. This minor inconvenience is certainly better than death -- or worse, life without a limp."
Nothing about the bag searching guarantees that you will be protected from a similar attack. Not only doesnt it gurantee that it will prevent an attack, it doesnt even significantly reduce its likelihood. Its at best a show by politicians who are afraid of appearing ineffective, to try and appease people who are feeling scared, and at worst a ploy by law enforcement to exploit the current situation to curtail our rights for completely unrelated motives, something they have always been pushing for. The truth is somewhere in between, but either way, its ineffective, costly, and worse UNCONSTITUTIONAL
hijiki - I'm all for spending tax dollars on matters of national security. Conservatives always supported that. It's the liberal welfare state we oppose.
And I do value civil liberties, but I also value my life and am happy to let the cops inspect my bag if need be. I don't consider freedom from baggage inspection to be an essential liberty. We're often required to surrender small freedoms so we can all enjoy the larger ones. But spoiled children are too immature to understand that, so the crybabies just pout about the NYPD, the government, and anyone else who can't make them happy all the time. Boo-hoo.
Milo - I don't think the police should be able to bust into your home without prior authorization. I don't think we should be prevented from walking the streets or travelling freely. Our freedom of speech should not be curtailed. I could go on, but you get the point. None of these rights have been impinged. So what inconveniences are you willing to put up with while we face the threat of terrorist attacks? Any?
Dear Nola,
I still want to know what would be too much for you. When would you be willing to admit that it had gone too far? At what point would you not accuse others of whining when they speak up to defend their privacy?
oops, posted at the same time.
Has anyone here been on the Singapore subway system? I'll show the contents of my bag everytime I get on the train if the New York system was like Singapore's: air conditioned platforms & trains, platforms so clean you could eat off the floor (though you're not allowed to...), smooth enough in operation to not feel like you're about to get thrown to the ground everytime the train takes a turn and the driver is not paying attention, fare cards that don't just get thrown out, phone service in the cars (it's not nearly as annoying as you'd think...). The platforms don't stink either, which is quite an accomplishment, given the fact that Singapore is as hot every day of the year as it's been here this past week.
hindsight is 20/20, but imagine if that had been first implemented on september 12, 2001.
Since black males commit 90% of all crime they should check them plus all those dirty arab muslim guys. If you check me all your gonna get is bit tit white girl pornography.
Any cargo bigger than one's head should be prohibited.
Once on the subway I saw a restuarant worker pushing a dolly loaded with frozen chickens.
police state is no better than a welfare state. they're both extremes of bloated government and poorly-planned spending. if you want national security, nola, then it goes back to meddling in foreign countries in the interest of the american dollar. it sounds like you're for spending billions legitimizing the cause for hatred in iraq and consequentally spending millions more in futile attempts to curb the reaction at home. you would be safer, have more freedom, and keep more of your paycheck if our government had more wisdom and less of a zeal to spread its ideology.
what larger freedom are you gaining by giving up this small freedom? the goal of terrorism is to scare you into destroying your own country regardless of statistical reality. is it working?
imagine if that had been first implemented on september 12, 2001.
Why? Was there already New York Subway bomber? When?
and nola, that's a pretty minimal list of rights that you are willing to grant the rest of us. Are you really sure that those are the only freedoms that you hold dear? Many of us non-monastic folks have a slightly more complex view of government, so I suspect that our political complaints will always seem like whining to you, try to tolerate it as best you can.
Just saw a whole bunch of muslim guys outside the falafal place on Houston st. screaming "GOD IS GOOD!" "PRAISE BE TO ALLAH" "DOWN WITH AMERICAN SONS OF JACKALS!","WE SHALL ROAST THEIR STOMACHES" and going "YI YI YAHOOOO!" rolling their tongues. Then they shot guns in the air and rode off on their horses. Somebody's gotta stop these people.
sorry mat, but bag searches have very little effect on air conditioning, littering, pissing on the platforms, or how well driven the trains are. don't be so eager to toss your right to privacy.
Clearly the only solution that will prevent terrorism while equally inconveniencing everyone - avoiding appearances of racism or the violation equal protection - is to require all subway riders to be naked. Given the heat, it may actually be the only protection embraced by the majority of New Yorkers.
Man, I had just come from a porno video store and three cops stopped me when I entered the lexinton 6 on 59th st. They opened my bag and saw a big plastic bag then they opene up the brown bag inside of it saying it looked suspicious. Then they took out "RAMBONE", "THE SOPORNOS", "THE ANAL INTRUDER" and "BIG BLACK TITFUCKERS 3". Man, was I embarrassed but kinda proud that it was straight heterosexual PORN and not "GRANNY TRANNIES SPANK YOUR ASS WHILE GIVING YOU AN ENEMA". That my friend, would be embarrassing.
Man, I had just come from a porno video store and three cops stopped me when I entered the lexinton 6 on 59th st. They opened my bag and saw a big plastic bag then they opened up the brown bag inside of it saying it looked suspicious. Then they took out "RAMBONE", "THE SOPORNOS", "THE ANAL INTRUDER" and "BIG BLACK TITFUCKERS 3". Man, was I embarrassed but kinda proud that it was straight heterosexual PORN and not "GRANNY TRANNIES SPANK YOUR ASS WHILE GIVING YOU AN ENEMA". That my friend, would be embarrassing.
It troubles me that this could divert resources from more effective methods. The NYPD's intelligence apparatus is unparalleled among police departments, but surely it depends on quick assistance from rank-and-file officers as needed. I'd hate for those officers to be tied up with fruitless searches at some hour of real peril.
test
hey copperfield, why dont you make one of those double posts dissappear?
There are three simple reasons why this won't work.
1. Terrorist suicide bombers will not be deterred by the threat of a search. If a bomber was stopped onthe platform and searched, he'd likely just set off the bomb right there.
2. Cops won't want to do it.
3. People will be annoyed by it.
In turn, the tension caused by 2 & 3 searches may not happen that much. Oh and there's that pesky 4th amendment thing, but nobody worries about that anymore anyway.
To whit: " The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
Now who doesn't like a little over time pay among friends eh? eh? Wa? Think about it for a sec, its just like the RNC gig man - I mean on that who didn't make a wad of bling? Now I got a tre sweet hot tub up in Pelham. Few hours of hanging in a little subway heat now and then and we'll have a kegger every weekend! Go Fucking Yankees!
As if there ever was a welfare state anyway. The US spends the least per capita of all developed nations (and many developing and third world nations too for that matter) on "welfare" programs, public education, or health care. That whole issue is just smoke and mirrors from the right. Those who benefit most from "welfare" programs is big business.
This morning, on my way down to the C train at the 5th and 53rd street station, an officer asked if I could 'just shake' my bag. ?
I don't know what he was listening for though.
Anyone?
The Only Solution is THE FINAL SOLUTION
pfft. if i had a bomb in my bag, you'd never find it. you'd have to dig through a fossil layer of old receipts, unused subway sticker cards, ipod accessorires, spare camera batteries, etc.
the cop'd be like, 'ah, fuck it, man. blow yourself up. i'm not digging through this shit.'
Some of us went to public schools here in NYC (wow, imagine?) where we were randomly searched upon entering. No choice. You go to school, you get searched. You don't go to school, you're in deep. Here you've got a choice: Don't like to get your bag searched? Walk or take a cab. Don't like your choices? Leave the city. I don't know if this bag searching will do anything to prevent a bombing, but this 4th Amendment/no freedoms argument is flawed. No one is coming to your house, no one is stopping you on the street and asking to check anything. When that happens, I'll listen to the "fascist" arguments.
WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH ALL YOU STUPID DUMBASSES AND YOUR FALSE SECURITY?
THERES NO SUCH THING AS SECURITY. YOU CAN POST ALL THE COPS YOU WANT IN THE STATIONS, YOU CAN SEARCH EVERY SINGLE PERSON, BUT WHEN THE TERRORISTS WANT TO DO THEIR THING, THEY WILL JUST BRING FUCKING GUNS AND SHOOT THE COPPERS AND THEN BLOW SHIT UP.
STOP GIVING UP YOUR FUCKING CIVIL LIBERTIES FOR FALSE SECURITY. THIS COUNTRY IS SLOWLY BECOMING A POLICE STATE AND YOU ARE ALL COMPLACENT FUCKING SHEEP.
congrats for being educated in the city, that's impressive. but it's public transit, jane, not high school. children do not have the same rights as adults for obvious reasons. surely you don't suggest that all of society should live by school rules? maybe you'd also like to mandate commuter uniforms so explosive vests don't get past the worthless bag searches? and pat-downs just to be sure. many people can't walk to work every day nor can they afford a cab. if you're so scared, why don't YOU take a cab and leave the public transportation to the people who are capable of carrying on a normal life? instead of imposing your fear on the public with ineffective intrusions, you may also "leave the city". or do you have a higher right to stay here? nearly everything you said is flawed.
What about the subway stations that never seem to have a visible police presence? Like, I know where I live I never see cops around. Is the NYPD planning on placing cops at EVERY SINGLE stop now? That'd be nice, I guess.
I also went to a school in NYC where they checked randomly for weapons. Guess What? people still got stabbed and beat up. Didn't work.
Check it out, a bag with the 4th amendment
printed on it: www.handsoffmybag.com
For everyone quoting the 4th ammendment: the key line in that, the ambiguous part, is "unreasonable searches and seizures". If there is reasonable suspicion that a public transit system is going to be attacked then is it reasonable that people entering the system are searched in an effort to prevent that attack? While the 4th ammendment does grant certain rights, they're is a wide range of possible interpretation here. For my part, I think conducting random bag searches will do little to prevent a determined attacker (as CCTV cameras do little to prevent crime...). However if these searches are done in connection with solid intelligence indicating specific times, or specific stations then I think it would be reasonable to conduct searches as a preventative measure, constitutionally speaking. It may be an inefficient or ineffective method of defense, but it is not an unreasonable act. You get searched when entering an airplane, or indeed the entire facility beyond a certain point. Is that an unreasonable search?
Mat,
There's no solid intelligence (either the kind at agencies or the kind between the ears) connected with this scheme. It's RANDOM searches, so essentially, the cops have to get lucky. You mention the 4th Amendment but don't notice that the entire second half of the Amendment deals with the necessity of search warrants and the conditions under which they should be issued. Besides, as the Israelis know full well, if someone wants to blow you up badly enough, there's precious little you can do to stop him.
Mat--
Your logic is flawed. The Constitution protects individuals, not transportation systems. The cops need some sort of reasonable articulable suspicion to search my person and belongings.
My fellow criminal defense attorneys and I have been discussing this issue all day, and we can't possibly see how this passes constitutional muster. At the same time, we know the cops are going to collar every single 16 year old young man of color who has a bag of herb, and we have to admit, we can't wait for the suppression hearing to find out the cop's "reasonable suspicion" for the search, and watching the drugs get suppressed.
Meanwhile, I'm envisioning an assload of 2 year wonders in the NYPD getting jammed up with all the CCRB complaints that will be filed against them. Perhaps they should consider conducting these not-so-reasonable searches with their PBA delegates close by.
As "bad" as this is, At least we can debate this. The real threat will be when we Can't.
Who know's how effective "Random" searching of bags would be? How many bombers had Bombs strapped to them instead of in their back packs?
IMO, this is more of a C.Y.A. exercise by the Mayor and the Police designed to let the populace know that the City is "Doing something".
Of course, NYPD just arrest black and hispanic males, since they commit the majority of the crimes in this city.
Personally, very spic an nigger arrested is one less scumbag on the streets.
And what will the cops say when a bus goes BOOM!?
FUCK THE PO LICE. FUCK THE PO LICE.
Jane astutely wrote "Walk or take a cab. Don't like your choices? Leave the city."
Now there is a realistic sense of reality.
How about this Jane - want to guarantee your safty? Don't take the Subway! move to Iowa!...oh, whats that Jane..huh? you love living in NYC? What, you have to take the subway because you can't very well walk from the Bronx to your job in lower manhattan or afford a cab every day? Jesus. I shouldn't have to leave the city or country just to have my rights respected. And lets all repeat...this does NOTHING to make the subways safer.
I wrote a longer essay on this rediculous "be searched or walk" option at my blog. Link is in the name if you really care. Sorry for the whoring, but damn this move pisses me off.
Back during the Viet Nam war the US army justified burning a vullage by saying “We had to destroy the village to save it”.
It seems we're living at a time and with a government that is trying to destroy freedom in order to save it.
Looks like the end of this great experiment is near... "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security."
I take the actual Singapore train system often.
...
No bag-checking there, I assure you.
What a mess this is. Let's do a little stats lesson: Random searches are not effective because the phenomena in question is highly non-random. Terrorists don't just pop up every hundredth person the same way that after getting a random sample of 500 people, 250 on average will be female. The statistical universe is the entire population, and the number of terrorists or potential terrorists is very small. And the distribution of terrorists throughout the population cannot be assumed to be random. The age distribution of terrorists who've carried out attacks is fairly small.
What's frustrating is that everybody wants things like safe transportation, less crime, less drugs, etc, but the methods that are being embraced to deal with these problems hurt our society. We've substituted ineffective prevention strategies for good policing, an effective justice system, and social engagement that can help to mitigate these issues (see The View From The Ground for an ongoing, detailed analysis of how some of these issues are playing out in Chicago).
Another way to say it is this: prevention is, by nature, essentially structural -- prevention means changing the social and economic structures that create space for bad things, like terrorism, to happen. Justice--at least after a bad thing has happened--tends to be individual or corporate, but less structrual. We've conflated the two, assuming that individualized means (carried out with a poor grasp of statistics, no less) will provide prevention and be just. And, in the end, we wind up with neither prevention nor justice.