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Why do bodegas insist on putting everything in a brown bag, and what's with sometimes putting one item and its brown bag inside a plastic bag?
Glenn
Gothamist shares your curiosity and, from the tone of your email, frustration. We recently bought a pack of gum at our local Duane Reade and before we could say anything, the sales clerk put our tiny purchase in a small white plastic bag. As we left the store, we took the pack out of the bag and threw the bag out in a corner trash can, giving the bag a total out-of-store lifespan of about two minutes.
We can only assume that bodegas put the paper bags inside plastic ones to make them easier to carry. Paper bags, especially small ones, rarely have handles. But considering that so many New Yorkers are rarely without messenger bags, backpacks, or Louis Vuitton knock-offs, most of us have little use for plastic bags for the few items we might purchase during our daily routines. If you want to rock the world of just about any bodega or convenience store employee, tell them that you don't need a bag to hold your purchase. Gothamist often pre-emptively tells salespeople that we don't need a bag and in return we are greeted with looks that most people reserve for the insane and/or Tom Cruise.
Since so many bags wind up in landfills or blow around the streets American Beauty style, some cities across the globe have taken measures to encourage their reuse. Ireland was one of the first countries to impose a plastic bag tax on shopping bags. The tax, which equals about fifteen cents per bag, resulted in a 90% reduction in plastic bag use. Other countries and cities are following suit. San Francisco considered a seventeen-cent-per-bag tax - paper or plastic - and rumors have long circulated that New York would impose one as well. In addition to wondering how such a law would be enforced, Gothamist wonders how New Yorkers would take to a tax on bags. If the city levied a bag tax, how much should it be? Would it change your behavior, or would you still take your bottle of Vitamin Water in a small plastic bag with a straw?
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although a certain amount of guilt accompanies asking for the "plastic" over "paper" bag (hey - don't judge me, idealistic whole foods bagger!) i find them indispensable (well, ok, quite dispensable after i've used them) for picking up dog poop. quite frankly, i dunno what i'd do without my stash of plastic bags. and paper bags just don't do the trick. would i pay a nickel tax per plastic bag? sure, since each nickel keeps my fingers from being in direct contact with feces several times a day.
Just about every morning I go to one deli to get breakfast and coffee, every morning they go to put my bagel (and coffee!) in a bag, every morning I tell them I don't need one. They look at me like I'm crazy. You'd think they'd recognize me by now.
I fully support the bag tax, mostly for the deli/bodega stop! Yeah, you might end up spending a little extra money initially, but it's worth it in the end. I tend to carry around an extra tote with me...easy to bunch up when I'm not using it.
note: if you become a WNYC member, donate $50, they give you an awesome bag. It holds so much and tends to become a great conversation piece.
I think that most stores insist on giving people bags for security reasons. If something is in the bag, they know that the person paid for the item. It's the only explanation I can come up with for the fact that bags are forced on people for the stupidest things that can often be carried by hand.
Until I got a cat, I had a huge stash of plastic bags. Now my stash is steadily depleted by having to change her litter.
I completely support a tax on bags. It's ingrained in people to put what you've bought into a plastic bag, and it drives me absolutely bonkers. At my local Met, the cashier will even double bag even for the smallest item because it's policy. I always try to carry my own plastic bags or point to my cloth bag and say that I don't need one.
If you don't save them, you're just creating more trash. If you do save them, they are perfectly breeding grounds for mice. Can't win!
The best is when you buy a bottle of Pepsi, and they put it in a bag and then shove a straw and some napkins in there. Like it's a friggin' Manwich.
The best is when you buy a bottle of Pepsi, and they put it in a bag and then shove a straw and some napkins in there. Like it's a friggin' Manwich. what's next cutlery?
I think this article strikes at something a little bigger.
I've yet to NOT be amazed at how much stuff is packed into take-out food bags. I only become aware of this when, after the ten or so minutes it takes me to eat my lunch, that I have a PILE of plastic containers, utensils, little sealed packits of whatnots, a stack of unused napkins a mile high which are not recycle-able because I’m still picking through the stack from the last time I had take-out and decided to re-use the napkins (is this the law of increasing returns?), etc, etc, ad infinitum. It’s pretty outrageous. Perhaps in NYC the rule is something like when I throw it away, its’ out of sight, out of mind. Also there is a sense that litter is not my problem. I mean, consider the last time you picked up someone else’s garbage.
geez, Gothamist, if you were just buying a stick of gum you shoulda just said "i don't need a bag. thanks." and then you wouldnt have wasted a plastic bag - or if it was already in the bag, take it out at the counter while you are paying so they can reuse it. GEEZ. waster.
from NYTimes last week: Ireland is also overrun by plastic bags.
"BRAY, Ireland - The earthen cliffs near this seaside harbor town have been sporting colorful decorations recently: erosion by the gentle waves of the Irish Sea has exposed the scraggly remnants of hundreds of blue, black and yellow trash bags."
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/10/international/europe/10garbage.html
My family lives in Sweden, and when you go to the supermarket there, you have to buy the plastic bags for about 5 cents each. The nice thing is that the bags are thick and sturdy, and you can take them back to the store and reuse them.
I, too, support a bag tax, especially after watching last night's 30 Days. I do get alot of use from my plastic grocery bags, however, by using them to dump the scooped cat poo. Maybe I should try to train the kitties to use the john, a la Meet the Parents and www.citikitty.com.
I look them right in the eye and say I DON'T NEED A BAG. Simple, direct, not asking for their approval and they don't correct me and think I NEED one.
i live in chinatown, where the piles of trash are unfathomable. i am constantly astounded at the enormity of the waste people produce. (all people, not just the chinese, but i will admit that i am baffled by how much better they are at it) a bag tax, any sort of call for the reduction of waste would be wonderful. how often do you find yourself on the beach, staring at a thin white bag floating on the waves? can't be good for any of us.
I typically say I don't need a bag, but every so often a quick-draw employee acts faster than I can speak. Sometimes they don't even pay attention and put it in a bag anyway.
Occasionally when I've taken something out of a bag and handed the bag back to the cashier, the cashier usually throws the bag away anyway. Same amount of waste, different place.
"I look them right in the eye and say I DON'T NEED A BAG. Simple, direct, not asking for their approval and they don't correct me and think I NEED one."
It's actually not that simple most of the time. In many stores, clerks get immense crap from management if a bag is not given. It's really a top down situation. Because if the clerk doesn't give you a bag, their manager might give them the 'what for'.
I've actually bought bags and cases at the Container Store that HAVE HANDLES on them, and have gotten into mini-debates over not getting a bag to put the container in. It's really ridiculous.
At least with "paper or plastic" you have an option of saying no. Now, it's just all assumed to be yes... Unless your some "no bag wanting" loon.
I'm all for a bag tax. In Taiwan they charge a small fee if you want a bag at the ubiquitous convenient stores. They also have an interesting recycling program that seems to be effective -- Garbage bags cost $$, but recycling is free. Most containters are recyclable. Garbage and recycling trucks cruise through neighborhoods regularly, playing music. Neighbors come out and have a big trash-tossing party. Garbage, only in designated bags, goes here, containers there, etc. A few workers oversee the whole affair, making sure things are sorted before moving on while the trucks pump-out low-fi tunes. It's a good way take care of your trash and meet the cute girls who live across the street.
Every little bit that you can do helps. My anal retentive self allows me to neatly fold about 3-4 of the thick Whole Food bags. When I'm at Whole Foods, I use these bags and they give me five cents for each bag used. That's great. I get home, empty the bags, refold them and stash them in my backpack. And then when I'm at any other grocery store, I also use these bags. For a while, I had the 7th Ave bags that they used when they first opened for about three years.
Every little bit helps. Particularly when you are walking one of state's finest beaches and discovering washed up plastic bags. It enforces your desire to do every bit you can.
Maybe if everyone starts insisting they don't want a bag it can be like a MOVEMENT. Perhaps a CULT OF THE BAGLESS.
I just figure the more people that say it, the less strange it will sound to the clerks...
In my native Germany bags cost 10 cents at the grocery. Everyone brings their own bag. It is no big deal. You don't get a discount for having brought the bag, merely a penalty if you don't. Whoops, your bad, so you pay. Also in Germany recycling is done on a much larger scale due in no small part to the high deposits charged on some glass and plastic containers. In order to assure they are returned, a store will charge an extra 20 cent deposit for each bottle or jar (including things like jams and jars of yogurt).
Doug says: "I typically say I don't need a bag, but every so often a quick-draw employee acts faster than I can speak. Sometimes they don't even pay attention and put it in a bag anyway. Occasionally when I've taken something out of a bag and handed the bag back to the cashier, the cashier usually throws the bag away anyway."
YES! That happens to me so often. You have to say "I don't need a bag" the SECOND you put your item on the counter. And I've come to ignore the nasty looks, although I find it astonishing that the cashier in EVERY single type of store I go into gives me dirty looks when I say I don't need a bag. Why do they care?
The city of Sydney has a program where they give away cloth bags to residents to take with them to the grocery store. I love that idea!
the accumulation of plastic bags is an excuse for taking up a new hobby...
http://www.diynetwork.com/diy/cr_needle_arts/article/0,2025,DIY_13768_3059465,00.html
You know who always brings their own bags to stores? Robbers. They're very paradoxical citizens.
as much as i love bashing San Francisco (great way to start out a comment, eh?) - at least they recycle plastic bags at most supermarkets.
what the hell? why cant NY do the same?
First World Problem. Jeez, people, so you tell the guy you don't want a bag and he thinks you're a loon? Big deal! Is he going to tell Mr. Big about that crazy loony Carrie what won't take a bag? Just say "I don't need a bag, thanks." It's not that hard. I do it all the time -- even with my iPod on!
i'm constantly saying "IDON'TNEEDA BAG!!" to cashiers and baggers. most of them seem too anesthetized by the job to spend *too* much energy giving me dirty looks. still, they do seem chagrined. the guy at the bodega says to me "you're going to CARRY it?" and shakes his head as though walking half a block with a half gallon of milk is just completely beyond him. but them more we say it, the less strange it'll seem to people eventually, right?
go bag tax!
I can't wait to knit that bag out of old plastic bags... what a great use for the ol' plastic bags besides, of course, using them to collect cat litter.
None of you have ever had to work as a cashier (or in a similar retail environment), have you?
Breeding ground for mice? Someone please elaborate! I decline bags whenever possible, but sometimes I need them and when I get them home, they get stuffed into a drawer, the contents of which eventually get hauled to the local grocer, who has a drop off point for recycling them. Am I unwittingly setting myself up for some kind of rodent problen?
funny, but I used to work at the virgin megastore, and i would always ask people if they wanted a bag with their purchase. most people would say "yes," and look at me like i was an asshole while shoving their not-good-for-picking-up-poop virgin bag into an enormous backpack. new york is full of people looking at you like you're an asshole.
funny, but I used to work at the virgin megastore, and i would always ask people if they wanted a bag with their purchase. most people would say "yes," and look at me like i was an asshole while shoving their not-good-for-picking-up-poop virgin bag into an enormous backpack. new york is full of people looking at you like you're an asshole.
also, one of the reasons people at stores (corporate stores with logos on bags) is that it's a great way to advertise. i think my old boss would say that a virgin bag floating on the waves at the beach is great because it might remind someone to go shopping later.
The best bag for cat and dog poo is the blue plastic bag the NY TImes comes in (home delivery). Sturdy, opaque (!!!!), and sweetly rectangular -- the perfect shape for scooping poo, tying a knot in the bag, and flinging the bag slingshot-style into the bin.
Ironically, I just came back from a week in Colorado. In Rocky Mtn national park, we had trouble actually finding a piece of garbage. People there seem to pick up trash for fun (or scouting points - not kidding we saw at least 4 groups desperately hunting for the nonexistent trash). Maybe we can get a "pickin up other people's garbage is fun" campaign going in NYC?
Save-A-Lot charges for its bags, so that's a de facto bag tax. Personally, I always use a packable nylon duffel bag for my weekly grocery run. Never breaks like some plastic bags have, much more comfortable webbing handles, and I don't have plastic bag clutter or a guilty conscience.
I use my plastic bags for the little wastebasket in my room, so I always appreciate it when a clerk gives me one. I throw out a lot of trash, so they come in handy. Also, when I brown-bag my lunch, I usually use a plastic bag.
I use 4 bags per DAY picking up poop from my two dogs, and changing the kitty litter once a week. I would have no problem paying 5-15 cents each. So, I love them, otherwise I have to buy poop baggies. If the bag is paper or otherwise not suitable for poop-scooping, I reject it and put bought product right in my backpack. I never got any attitude for refusing a bag! Never ehard of that.
I think the reason Duane Reade employees will give you a bag is because A) they are trained to do so, and breaking the standard protocol, even for the use of logic, will get them in trouble with the boss B) the are not paid to think, and expending effort to deviate from said standard protocol, which by now is muscle memory, will only cause them to have some degree of a breakdown, and C) bags are free advertising for the brand, and are an invaluable marketing tool especially in a urban, bag-oriented environment like NYC. Would Starbucks be so popular if it didn't come in easy-to-spot cups? Prolly not.
Now, regarding the bag tax, I totally agree. Some ghetto supermarkets charge for the bags and if you frequent them, you bring the same old bags back. Those are usually much better made and sturdier. I think an alternative to this would simply be not giving one by default, and only if the customer asks for it. Also, a recycle scheme would be nice. Bags are recyclable but don't cross people's minds. Shame, because there are so damn many of them.
My solution is to invent a machine that chops em up into confetti and then use that to stuff pillows and mattresses instead of feathers or foam. Hypoalergenic, no?
Check this out.
There was an article yesterdays NYTimes about how Kenya is making eclogical advancements in plastic bag waste, but forcing people to use only the biodegradeable plastic bags.
Kenya's Nod to Ecology:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/14/international/africa/14nairobi.html?oref=login
I always thought that the brown-bagging of everything at bodegas, especially all kinds of drinks, was sort of a communal effort to make public drinking easier: See, if the only people who drank from brown bags were the ones sipping booze, a brown bag would be a tip-off (or so my theory goes), but when people are drinking Snapple and water out of little bags (as I have often seen them do), cops don't have probable cause to make the person show them what's in the bag. I learned the hard way, though, that if the bag is too small to conceal the alcoholic nature of the beverage, it will not protect you from a $50 ticket for having an open container of booze on the subway (at least they didn't get me for minor-in-possession, since I was only 17 at the time).
Why does everyone think about the garbage problem when talking about plastic bags? What about the contribution to global warming that plastic bags make. Billions of barrells of oil go into making these throw away items, and as it turns out, paper bags contribute twice as much to global warming as plastic bags do. Unless we want climate change, we are going to have to switch to a lot more reusables and scoop our poop into compostible plastics made from corn.