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Hey, Upper East Siders, plan on waiting for the Second Avenue Subway a little longer! Because the MTA only received about $21 billion of the almost $28 billion they had requested from the state, construction plans for the Second Avenue Subway, downtown rail link to JFK, and LIRR link to Grand Central will be delayed, as will the planned uprades for various subway stations. The NY Times has the skinny on the stations:
The 12 stations where repairs would be delayed include Lawrence Street on the M and R lines in Brooklyn; 47th-50th Streets at Rockefeller Center on the B, D, F and V lines in Midtown Manhattan; 71st and Continental Avenues on the E, F, G, R and V lines in Forest Hills, Queens; and five stations along the N line in Brooklyn.Gene Russianoff, NYPIRG and Straphangers lawyer, said he was disappointed that the subway station rehabs had to be put off - and that the stations getting attention tended to be in Manhattan. Gothamist assumes that besides being shorted hundreds of millions of dollars, part of the reason why many program have to be tabled is to get the whole system up to grade in other respects: Fixing signals, making sure there's working fire alarms and fire equipment, clearing the tracks of debris. We hope that whomever is in the Governor's Mansion next year will be serious about making sure the MTA is supported, because Pataki has been all talk and no action (JFK rail link, for one).Several stations would receive only urgently needed repairs, instead of a full-scale rehabilitation: Smith and Ninth Streets on the F and G lines in Brooklyn; Chambers Street on the Nos. 1 and 9 lines in TriBeCa; and Chambers Street on the J, M and Z lines in Lower Manhattan.
So, maybe there will be sidewalk cafes a little longer.
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i wonder what the over/under on the 2nd ave subway line being started/finished is.
i say 7 years for the start and 22 years for the finish.
Does the MTA hate the F line? No, really?
Station upgrades are really laughable. To see what I mean, head on over to the Atlantic Avenue or Dekalb Avenue Stations. Both have undergone massive renovation. Both have new fixtures, stairs and tiles.
But they still look like crap because nobody really cleans or takes care of either station. And each station just still looks like a mess. It's amazing actually. I pointed this out to friends who were visiting this past summer and they were amazed as well. If you look past the grime the station looks decent, but why renovate a station and then just let gunk accumulate?
There won't be a 2nd Ave subway unless a consortium of private developers, Trump et al, decides to step in and get it done. There will never be enough money for the city to do it.
Barring that, well, there just won't be a 2nd ave subway.
I've been saying a more realistic solution is to dedicate bus lanes on avenues like 2nd or Madison.
www.forgotten-ny.com
I agree with Kevin. The only other way for it to get done (besides private developers) is if the Olympic committee says a 2nd ave subway is necessary for NYC to win the 2012 bid...then bloomberg would be all over it.
and the bus idea is really good...i once had the brilliant idea of taking the 2nd ave bus from 88th down to the east village...1 hour later, we finally crossed 14th.
Just to echo what Kevin and everyone else is saying, the main reason a seperate PATH system exists that is basically a red-haired counsin to the MTA is the fact that even the Port Authority knows--and knew--that it was more efficient for them to build an entirely seperate entity on their own than deal with MTA nonsense.
And even going further back, the reason the Subway system is so extensive and you have stations of diffeerent lines a block or so apart from each other in many cases is simply because when this who thing started, the Subway system was simple a bunch of disparate lines run and built and finances by moguls and businessmen who built the stuff just to get the built.
The modern MTA is simple a bloated beast.
there is also the "show trial" option where the current MTA regime could be convicted of "infringing on freedom of movement" or "crimes against punctuality" and given life sentences.
I do agree with the view that the priority for any resources is to maintain the current system so it runs well. Any new construction is ridiculous if we can't maintain what we have already. And I think it is important to maintain affordable fares.
I live on the Lower East Side. Frankly, I could do without the disruption of construction for a new 2nd Avenue subway. I think there are better priorities for the MTA.
"Any new construction is ridiculous if we can't maintain what we have already."
A lot of what we have already in the Subway systems that are literally falling apart. And maintaining things is often more costly than tearing down and building new. Most of the subway system is too old to be believed. That fire earlier in the year that disrupted A/C/E service? Turn of the century wiring.
For example, the Stillwell Avenue/Coney Island Station has basically been completely torn down becuase the station that existed before was literally falling apart. So much so that engineers who examined the reconstruction after it began were shocked at the level of decay in the walls and support beams.
Service was disrupted for a while on some lines. But in the end, there's a new solid station that will last for years.
If that station were not rebuilt and the surrounding lines not upgraded, the thing could have literally collapsed on itself. And that would have truly disrupted things in ways that we can't imagine.
Anyone remember back in the 1970s when they completely shut down the Williamsburg Bridge and considered tearing it down because it was in such abyssmal shape.
While it's going to cost hell of a lot of money in the short run, Second Avenue Subway's going to make things a lot easier for people who ride the 4, 5 and 6. And by relieving the pressure on the Lex Ave line, maintaining it is going to be easier too.
Plus, people exaggerate the impact subway construction's going to have above ground. They're not going to use the 19th Century method of tearing up an entire avenue.