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Last week we told you about our stint as a dancing owl for the Flaming Lips, but we left out some serious details. We didn't want to sully our happy story with the harsh facts. The judging, the sidewalk politics, our inability to be fabulous. We gained entry from the band's people, but the doormen did everything they could prior to that moment to keep us and our $20 shoes out of Gotham Hall that night. We were lucky, others were not. And so it seems that a stern look at the underbelly of nightclub doormen is in order. The drummer of the Flaming Lips was himself subjected to the cruelty of this doorman, he stated:
I explained that I was in the band and there would be no show without me, at which point he grabbed me by the throat and shoved me up against the wall and was about to take a swing at me when someone yelled "He's in the band. Let him go." [via Central Village]
He has also written an open letter to NYC which is posted in full here. So we ask, who are these doormen guarding the parties of our city? Who was this one in particular? Does anyone else have a horror story from that night?
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Taken from the 'A Letter from the Flaming Lips to NYC' posted on Brooklyn Vegan and linked to n te original post- "Yeah, it sucks that that happened to me, but I'm just as pissed that it happened to 250 or so people who's only crime was that they wanted to go see a band that they liked for free. I put the entire blame on whoever made this show public in the first place. That's the biggest dickhead in this whole thing. Nobody was prepared for a bunch of people to show up and try to get in. Granted, the security guards were way out of line and I'm not trying to defend their behavior because they're obviously all assholes with really small penises, but they weren't expecting all you guys to show up and they freaked out. It was a fucked up situation all the way around and I feel really, really shitty that all of this happened. It was supposed to be a cool, weird little thing that got blown up."
This all sounds like the Flaming Lips trying to cover their a$$es. This was a private/invite only/fundraising event, that somehow went public and then people were to get in for free?
The behavior of the doormen is one thing. But the situation they were placed in is another. Given this broader context, I think the Flaming Lips blaming the person who "leaked" the info is quite limp and lame at best.
The doormen are hired to protect an exclusive event and then people are shocked when somehow they are faced with hoards of fans demanding to get in free and something happens? Not shocking. Pathetic all around. And placing exclusive blame on the doormen is simply blaming the lowest most faceless person in the chain of blame.
i don't have a new york doorman horror story, but i do have a theory. at the risk of offending doorman everywhere, it is my theory that most doormen live at home with their mommies and the nights they work are the only time they get to exert any authority at all. it is the only theory that i can come up with that would explain their behavior.
my husband and i were roughed up by a doorman in DC a few years ago -- it was a nightmare and ended when the supremely large man bent down to pick up my husband by the knees and i jumped on the doorman's back to make him let go. not pretty.
the next day, after the club promoter sent out an apology to everyone on his promo list for a couple of mishaps that went down that night i wrote to the promoter and told him my story. i received a very nice apology, but while capacity issues and stopped up toilets can't always be avoided, personnel should be trained and can be fired.
Captain Obvious, please re-read the following from YOUR post:
"I put the entire blame on whoever made this show public in the first place. That's the biggest dickhead in this whole thing."
and
"Granted, the security guards were way out of line and I'm not trying to defend their behavior because they're obviously all assholes with really small penises, but they weren't expecting all you guys to show up and they freaked out."
Jamie, while doormen and show security tend to be on the thuggish side, the reality is that the same people complaining about them are also the same people who would run to them if something went down.
As someone who has worked on both sides of the doormen and security scene they're not good or bad. They just are who they are. And if your talent, you appreiciate them more than others.
They are doing their jobs, and whoever runs the venue is ultimately the one to blame because the guards do as much--or as little--as possible based on what the "bosses" say. I can't tell you how many times I've seen guards change from mean to nice based on the simply poke in the shoulder by venue management who tells them "Chill out..."
captain obvs: i should have made it clear that the show/party information that thursday was not "leaked" by the flaming lips, everyone (including myself) were on a legitimate list from an invite we received prior to that night. the doormen behaved unprofessionally the entire night towards INVITED GUESTS, band members and pretty much anyone who came near them. One of them even spit at my friend.
Jen, your info about invited guests flies straight in the face of the Flaming Lips own drummer blaming the person who leaked the info to the public in general.
But whatever. Just blame the doormen. They're the easiest target to blame and anything else seems to offend people's "hipster musician = always right" concept.
i am speaking out of my own personal experience, as well as that of the friends that i was with. we were on the list and still treated horribly.
as far as the seperate topic of the show getting leaked, that sucks too. i don't know how it got leaked and i'm sure it made each person's job harder that night - however knowing how to handle pressure is part of everyone's job. and these doormen did not handle the pressure well at all.
captain obvious, i hear what you are saying about "blame the doorman" vs. blame the promoter who usually sets the tone, however, being mean for a living must suck. i'm sorry you've had to "be on both sides." i hope you find a way to treat people better than many of the doormen i have encountered.
and let me say that an interesting coda to my horror story above is that the next night friends who were with me when my husband and i were roughed up found themselves out with the doorman in question and apparently he is very nice. the asshole/violent thing was an act -- i think this makes it worse. . .he was capable of being a human being and chose to be a brut.
it goes along with what you say about owners/managers being able to get a guy to "chill out" but, as jen said, being able to deal humanely with pressure situations should be required by all "security personnel."
while i love the fact that there are so many weird free events in this city, it seems like the organizers of such events are always shocked that so many people show up and have to scurry to handle the crowds. the security guys were probably not given adequate info about how many people would show up (or even what to do with the invited guests), and having probably no idea who the flaming lips are, went apeshit on anybody who they thought was hassling them (ie, anybody who came into their line of sight). when this stuff happens, everybody from the promoters on down to security should take the blame and take action so this doesn't happen again. but of course they won't bother.
or we could just blame the pussycat dolls! what the hell is up with them anyway?
" i'm sorry you've had to "be on both sides." i hope you find a way to treat people better than many of the doormen i have encountered."
Jamie, I am not a doorman or ever have been. But I have been a music fan (outside), and I have worked with bands on stage (inside) so I can tell you straight out that yes, doormen are muscle. And they are what you make of them. Doormen are just doing their jobs, and when given odd instructions and left unsupervised, yes they will be thugs. But I've seen doormen cower and apologize profusely when a key employee comes out and puts them in line. It's that simple. I've seen 5' tall women publicists who work with a venue control muscle-bound doormen dozens of times.
In this case, I'm suspicious of the show being 'leaked'. More often than not so-called 'secret' gigs are just guerilla marketting techniques. And the band is often in on the deal. In this case, it all went bad. But blaming the doormen soley is not fair to anyone and ignores the real culprit. And before anyone tells me that there's a reading comprehension problem, the title of this post is "The Doorman", so please.
Blaming "the doormen" is about as astute as blaming "the cops". Both groups do whatever they are told to do. And not placing proper blame on the people above them who supervise and ultimately pay/control them is not the brightest move.
Obvs: The bouncer was awful at this thing. He spit at us and singled out others on line, telling them they were too fat, too old or too ugly to get in. He wasn't simply trying to keep control, he went out of his way to humiliate and harm people who did nothing except show up to see a band they liked at an event they had RSVP'd for. It was more than one guy screwing up under the pressures of the job. His behavior was deplorable and sadistic. Had you been there, surely you would have agreed.
Obvs:
Not to pile on, but I have to agree with Jen and Jeff. i was there, saw this prematanned douchebag threatened to "punch this bitch in the face" (and, yes, he was talking about a woman, and generally berate people on the line. I read the Lips site yesterday and felt it was total bullshit as well. Trying to justify taking this gig..."Hey, they came to us and asked us to do a promo show for the new Mazda and have ourselves filmed with the cast of 'The Apprentice' and 'The O.C.', what could be cheesy about that?" I think they're more embarrassed that so many people found out about this show. At least actors only do this cheesy shit in japan...
That being said, I think you are taking this as an attack on all doormen. You shouldn't. But, this dick was pathetic and bordering on subhuman. I hope he got fired. And, i think only people who were there that night should comment to avoid general statements like "all bouncers are assholes" or "the doorman always gets blamed". There is plenty of blame to go around.
I find Cap'n Obvious's name to be ironic in this instance. He appears to refuse to acknolwedge the prospect that people given the sole authority to determine people's fate might, possibly, get drunk with power. That is plainly what happened here--since passersby had to pass through this man, he took it upon himself to act like a dick. The same shit happens with DMV bureacrats, policemen, and lifeguards all the time--rules don't always entail protocol.
I'd like to take this opportunity to say that the doormen at Webster Hall suck.
And I'd like to take this opportunity to say that the doormen at Southpaw are awesome. Always polite and professional. Pretty rare these days.
Jade, I never said there is not the potential for people to be "drunk with power" in certain situations. Not at all. In fact I'm completely acknowledging that fact in concept that someone above the doormen/security should have said something.
It's pretty simple. These guys will be drunk with power as long as they get paid to do so. If management comes out and threatens them or warns them or just basically says "Look, cut it out or you're gone..." the issue always ends.
Don't blame the messenger. Just go to whoever controls them and complain. And in this case, with this show and with this venue, I think anyone who genuinely thinks these guys were out of line should contact the venue and let them know. Complaining on blog comments really does nothing. Complaining to club management about the issue is much more constructive. I'm sure the Flaming Lips and their management company have done so themselves.
Capt. Obvious, were you that doorman?
Captain Obvious, you've changed your position a bunch of times.
Earlier, you said, "This all sounds like the Flaming Lips trying to cover their a$$es. This was a private/invite only/fundraising event, that somehow went public and then people were to get in for free?" and "And placing exclusive blame on the doormen is simply blaming the lowest most faceless person in the chain of blame."
I pointed out that the Flaming Lips placed the blame on "whoever made this show public in the first place." They even went on to say, "That's the biggest dickhead in this whole thing." So you switch things up say that you're referring to Jen's post itself. "And before anyone tells me that there's a reading comprehension problem, the title of this post is "The Doorman", so please."
You seem to be switching around your position so you have someone to argue with. Everyone agrees with you that the bouncers were put in a tough position. I think the only possible point of disagreement is that you seem to think (correct me if I'm wrong) that bouncers have the right to spit at people, threaten women, etc. unless a publicist tells them to stop. You don't think that, right?