Gothamist: Today's West Side Stadium Hijinks

bing

Wed, 09 Mar 2005 17:48:00 -0500

Man, I still like New Jersey. I think New Yorkers tend to see only the stretch between 18W and 13A. I mean if I only saw the Cross Bronx Expressway, I'd think NYC was a pretty crappy place, too. That being said, New Jersey will always live in the City's shadow, but hey, at least we're not Philly.

Max

Wed, 09 Mar 2005 17:42:43 -0500

Not imposible to get stuff done in NYC- just very very hard. And the city actually does try to help out with ICIP tax rebates, etc. Just hard to build anything in the center of such a dense, active population center. Thus JC weas a breeze- the developer (belive it was FCR) has been sitting on that land for decades. Not so easy in NYC. I worked on a project that fully renovated a huge hotel and sice it was in NYC- the hotel had to remain open the entire time. Thus hundreds of construction workers, thousands of new guests every day, full-on taxi and limo service - side by side with demolition pick up and deliveries (with Teamsters for extra goodness!). And you know what- it worked. But it cost a freakin fortune- welcome to NYC.

Brian Van

Wed, 09 Mar 2005 17:01:32 -0500

Yikes, we're talking about NJ's great development? 1. Sprawl. Sprawl. Sprawl. A big mess. 2. McMansions. 3. Newark. 4. The JC waterfront is half Newport - a New York developer's creation. (good old Lefrak) 5. Speaking of the beloved "Gold Coast", environmental and economic studies were done in the late 70's to produce a sweeping report in the 80's for both Hudson County and Bergen County to develop the Hudson Waterfront from Bayonne to Fort Lee; of course, they listened to almost none of it, most of the coast remained derelict for years, and most of the major development along that stretch has only happened within the last 7 years. Pretty much JC, South Hoboken, and Lincoln Harbor are the only manifestations of that vision. 6. The light rail is a past-due, over budget toy train system that's still far from complete after years of planning, debating, and enough hot air to float Giants Stadium to Europe. Billions for a bus on train tracks. 7. Midtown Direct? Nice idea in the planning stages. Approximately 2 miles of tracks plus a new train station with a definite economic benefit - and it might not get done. Typical. 8. JFK has an AirTrain too. And thousands of miles of subway and commuter rail surrounding the city. 9. NJPAC was, admittedly, a major blow to the superiority of New York's performing arts industry. *giggle* Sarcasm aside, it's a good thing, but a drop when NYC has an ocean. Plus, NJ has problems keeping their prior existing performing arts centers open - like the Bergen PAC, formerly the John Harms, in Englewood. I'd think most of NJ's theater fans commute to NYC for their entertainment. 10. Compare what NJ has done in the past 150 years vs NYC over the same time. I defend NJ strongly in this case, because they've done a lot that's impressive (the Turnpike, public parks, statewide development, strong industry, Atlantic City, the port business, JC's comeback, and much more). Yet NYC is the greatest city in the world over the same timespan. Sorry, NJ.

Captain Obvious

Wed, 09 Mar 2005 15:40:58 -0500

Ace, NJ is the polar opposite of NY as far as development goes. You're 100% correct. That's the main reason political corruption in NJ in the past led to the toxic nightmare and blight that plagues many NJ cities. If NY politics is corrupt as far as a stinginess towards land use goes, NJ in the past has whored itself out to virtually any company or entity that was willing to pay. Two sides of the same coin. But if I had to choose an underused Westside over a blighted Downtown Newark, an underused Westside wins any day.

Matt

Wed, 09 Mar 2005 15:20:03 -0500

You're right Captain Obvious. But what pisses me off even more is all of those stupid rich black men fights! You know, full of nasty rich BLACK men!

Doctor Memory

Wed, 09 Mar 2005 15:09:50 -0500

Jesus, nothing makes the bile rise like hearing some billionaire developer whinge on about how difficult it is to get the city to hand him nine digits worth of tax incentives and outright cash to enable him to build his pet white elephant without incurring any personal risk. The jury is not out on projects like this: it came in a long time ago, and the verdict was NOT PROFITABLE. If Cross thinks he can make money doing this, let him pay market rate for the land out of his own pocket, and build the monstrosity on his own dime.

Ace

Wed, 09 Mar 2005 14:54:50 -0500

Based on 17 years of NYC living I have to agree that it does seem impossible to get anything done/built in NYC. I commute to NJ every day and the amount of "things" they've done is incredible compared to NYC - The JC waterfront, light rail, train to Newark airport, Midtown direct, NJPAC.

Max

Wed, 09 Mar 2005 14:53:47 -0500

I'll say it- then dont come here doofus. Cap't O is dead on about M&T as well.

Rose

Wed, 09 Mar 2005 14:33:09 -0500

The whole stadium thing is just a festering boil of aggravation.

Barry Popik

Wed, 09 Mar 2005 14:25:28 -0500

Oh, those puns! If Jen sings "I feel pretty," I'm outta here. How about "There's a place for us"?

King Hippo

Wed, 09 Mar 2005 14:21:30 -0500

The news that I found most surprising was Congressman Rangel's support for the stadium. For the most part, haven't the democrats been against the stadium? I've always consider Rangel to be one of the more principled city Democrats, and moreso than pretty much all of the Democratic Mayoral hopefuls, so I think it should be interesting to see how his endorsement affects the party's stance. http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/42077.htm

Tim N.

Wed, 09 Mar 2005 14:18:27 -0500

The Jets are gonna watch Bloomberg fall Tonight He said the IOC would call Tonight He said you’d get your ballpark You’ll see But when the day is over You’re still in Jersey… C'mon, somebody write the next verse!

Captain Obvious

Wed, 09 Mar 2005 14:17:10 -0500

Toronto and Miami are both souless cities that roll over to any big developer. If he wants an easy date, then he should just move the Jets there. Seriously, few people in NYC really care about the Jets anymore. Especially after they moved out of NYC to NJ. Why should we accept them now after they abandoned us in the past? I really want Bloomberg out of office already so these stupid rich white men battles can just not happen. The city is not underdeveloped at this point and he and others have done their work. It's enough already. And even if the stadium were built--which I think is not going to happen--why in the world would teh Olympics choose NYC considering the general lack of public support and nasty rich white men politics.

Tim N.

Wed, 09 Mar 2005 14:03:22 -0500

Cross is a piece of work. Wasn't he also denigrating the neighborhood around the Hudson Yards? If Toronto's such a better place to build, move the team there. It kills me to say that because I'm actually a Jets fan. But let's remember, this is a franchise that thought it was better to share a stadium (in another state) than stay in NYC, and has been totally inflexible to alternative site suggestions (Queens, anyone?). Between this guy and the Dolans, its becoming impossible to take a side in this without feeling the need to shower. Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, here I am, stuck in the middle with you and a $600 million tax bill.

Kevin Walsh

Wed, 09 Mar 2005 14:01:59 -0500

Well, I sort of know what Cross means. Downtown development seems hopelessly mired, and nimbyism will probably doom the Olympics, the west side project and Nets in Brooklyn. Even if the Jets wanted to move to Queens, where I'd prefer they go, you'd have some Flushingites and Coronians trying to block it. If public funds are involved, it ain't gonna get built.