Wal-Mart Abandons NYC Plans...For Now

Dumb New Yorkers. I see you all fell for good marketing...typical.

http://reclaimdemocracy.org/walmart/2005/target_better.php

http://www.alternet.org/workplace/35610/?comments=view&cID=118628&pID=118609

It is nice to see that people in the Big Apple have the integrity to fight Walmart. The reasons to reject Walmart numerous and well know, but few communities have successfully resisted the dark side. closets

Wal-Mart shoppers are cheap and usually lame.

I don't care how cheap they are...the store's self-censorship policy on books and CDs is ridiculous. Most CDs, books and some movies there are sanitized, so you'll likely have an "edited" version if you buy content-based items there. Also, have you seen their fashionable clothing? Makes K-Mart look like Barneys.

If Wal-Mart does come, all we need to do is point out and make fun of all the lame-ass "Wal-Mart Shoppers" who lug shit back on the train in their Wal-Mart bags. They'll be so ashamed, they'll take cabs to avoid the ridicule, which will help out the local car services. ANd that will cancel out the price-saving incentive while helping the local economy.

In retrospect my looting comment came off a tad harsh. It's more of a joke than a wishful sentiment.

But to expand on what hijiki is saying, it's sad to hear anyone defend a company.

A company is not a person. And a company is not a community. A company is a money making machine. And in the case of Wal*Mart the sheer idiocy that anyone would defend a cold behemoth like that is sickening. They could care less about you. All you are is a means to authorize payment.

And part of the reason people get all upset before a chain lands is simple. The only time anyone has any chance of effectively opposing a chain outlet is before it plants roots in a community. After they have opened, you can protest all you want and you can never hurt them. They're just one tentacle of a larger entity.

And yeah, they provide jobs. Jobs to people who are unskilled to do anything else and whose incomes are so meager they can only afford to spend it in faceless chains. Local people working for and funding a non-local company who provides manufacturing jobs to underpaid workers in shitty conditions in foreign countries.

We're not talking loonball activism here. We're talking common sense. Save $2 today, but you'll loose much more in the future.

And personally, I'm the product of local manufacturing jobs. My parents both worked in local factories in Brooklyn and were able to send all of their kids to college and fund a modest, but meaningful life. I can't imagine what it must be to try to do the same thing today in the economic world we live in where jobs go overseas. No doubt in my mind college would have been a luxury for me, and poverty would be the end result.

whatever the deal with vornado, walmart also said flat out that they intend to continue searching for an entry into nyc.

it saddens me to hear someone defend walmart.

if you want to compare, my corner bodega buys from local distributors and manufacturers. a good portion of the money stays in the region. it is owned and operated by the owners themselves who take pride in their store and our neighborhood. they give breaks to lower income residents and their prices are still very low.

still riding on their 'buy american' campaign that's etched into the minds of the average consumer, walmart now buys it's goods from overseas factories full of workers who's status borders on slavery and they dictate price to manufacturers. when a manufacturer can't produce the products at walmart's price, walmart punishes them by taking their product off their shelves thus forcing them to close factories, go bankrupt, or look to china. fewer jobs in america, diminished business opportunities for local entrepeneurs, and more money going overseas. in the meantime, walmart donates all of the american reaserch and development to china when they move the factories there so walmart can make a short-term boost to their bottom line. i know it's not just walmart, but that doesn't sound sustainable to me.

I call BS on "someone".

To believe your post is to believe that Wal Mart's really doesn't see NYC as a place for them to grow. Even they will tell you otherwise. So will Target. So will Best Buy. So will PathMark. Those other big box chains haven't met anywhere near the headaches Wal Mart has, and they likely won't should they continue growing here.

Wal Mart's prices are low because they dump their costs on the societies where their business is done. Moreover, they depend on institutions like the Chinese Army to help in that work. Wherever someone has a bayonet at their back, Wal Mart sees a chance to keep costs low.

It would be incorrect to say bodegas do the same. Many of those are owner & family operated. They do much better with that than 90% of Wal Mart employees do for twice the amount of work.

Wal Mart, for all their genius, is going to need to sink more and more of their millions into marketing and brand-building because of their ghoulish business practices. That you can get their customers and stockholders to profit from the same business practices is not surprising, nor is it a badge of honor.

Wal Mart has done all the easy growing. Now that people have experience with what their promises really yield, you can count on it becoming much more difficult to live off of what they do. Every image-building dollar they spend comes out of the bottom-line, and like union-formation, it is usually a sign of bad management decisions.

Enjoy the dividends of what they do while the getting is good. Sleep well.

Someone has it exactly right -- Wal-Mart in fact said flat out today that they never had any deal with Vornado.

Just to be straight with you, I'm a Wal-Mart shareholder and frequent shopper. Wal-Mart succeeds (and downtowns, might die) because people choose to shop there. Their "front-line" wages and benefits are probably not stellar, but probably no worse than your local bodega pays its clerks, than the discount stores on 14th St pay their help or your local takeout pays its kitchen staff.

Before "the usual suspects" congratulate themselves for "running Wal-Mart out of Queens," consider the real (or real probable) reasons Wal-Mart is not coming and who was really behind the opposition:

1. Wal-Mart likes to cluster its stores around a metro area and requires huge plots of land for its stores. How many such plots are available in NYC?

2. Wal-Mart requires efficient transportation links connecting HQ, regional distribution centers and stores. NYC's highways don't count.

3. The people who are really threatened by Wal-Mart (despite assurances that the Queens store would not be a "food" store) AND have the clout to stop it are not the "mom and pops," but the medium size retail and grocery chains: Duane-Reade, Strawberry, P C Richard, Gristedes. They're the most likely forces behind "grass-roots" opposition.

4. Vornado, the developer might have realized that this "potential" deal with Wal-Mart may affect a relation with a "current" client and backed down. Of course, it helps to blame the little guy.

5. This was a "strawman" on the part of Vornado. There never would have been a real Wal-Mart deal. Now that Vornado has given the city the "gift" of a "reprieve" from Wal-Mart, it can go to "the people" and ask for what perks it really wants for this development.

Capeche?

I moved to this city so I wouldn't have to learn how to drive. Living in NYC does not make an individual better, more interesting or even smarter. That's on you. As for Wal Mart, the best way to keep them out is make it too expensive to be here. period.

Obvious: The analogy I made is perfectly appropriate - clinic bombers think that they have the right to use violence in pursuit of a higher cause. Isn't that exactly what you advocated? What a brave little idealist you are, punk.

Capt. Obvious is putting us on, right? Right?

Strange as it may seem, I'm gonna back up Nola here. So hand Satan a parka and listen up:

I understand the frustration with bad corporate citizens like Wal-Mart. And there's no getting around it, people, these folks are the scum of the earth. They are also the only places in many of these towns that you can get albums or cool stuff for the house or whatever. Their corporate strategy is to hold both small-town consumers and employees over a barrel and tighten the screws.

But we're all overlooking the main point: THEY'RE NOT COMING! At least for now. And why aren't they coming? Because a collective voice rose up and said, Don't come here. It wasn't necessary to firebomb or loot them or resort to any other act of violence, as pleasing to the id as that might have been. All that would have done is reinforce the image of cities as being dark places (and I mean every connotation of that loaded phrase) where anarchy reins and violence rules, rather than places where principled citizens of all races and classes with the luxury of shopping choices took a stand.

Rather than screaming, we all deserve a pat on the back. The battle is won, the war goes on, but a win is a win.

Nola, by your logic jawalking is then the equivalent of disturbing the peace.

Good luck to you whatever you do. It seems to be primarilly cheerleading any and every post and concept that someone higher than you puts forth.

It's sad when people's assertion of freedom of expression comes primarilly from defending their option to support a major retailer that can sell you houshold goods for a few dollars less.

Is it possible to decry Wal-MArt without hauling Midwesterners through the mud? I'm totally with hijiki here. Some of you give the impression that a bunch of pot-bellied, flannel shirt wearing types are meeting secretly in a hunting shack in Wisconsin, gobbling down meatloaf while they plot their invasion of NY via Walmart. How they contrive our doom, huddled 'round a card table, dripping brown gravy on a map of the five boroughs!!!

In the age of tolerance, the white liberal still finds time to make jabs at his country cousin. What do midwesterners have to do with Wal-Mart in NY? THey barely have any say as to Wal-MArt being in their own home town.

An example: in my parents town, the college president, mayor, town council and wal-mart planners pushed through the building of your typical wal-mart- set on the edge of town, ugly, contributing to downtown decay, etc. The college sold asbestos-ridden dorms (which were family housing)to Walmart, who tore them down and built the box. The college got out of a sticky liability situation, and Wal-mart got its store, and the struggling ex-cotton town gets money. Resistance really was futile, since the store was advantageous to all persons in power.

I dislike Wal-MArt as much as the rest of you. It represents everything that is cheap, asphalt-covered, mass-produced, synthetic, and stiflingly homogenized. But I won't tie Wal-Mart trashing to the trashing of a whole group of people who happen to not live on either coast.

Tell me, Capt. Obvious, with that army of straw men you drag around with you, is it difficult to find adequate housing within the five boroughs?

My post did not contain one word in defense of Wal Mart. I did not criticize you for opposing Wal Mart, I criticized you for advocating violence against a legal business entity. That definitely puts you in league with abortion clinic bombers, so LOL all you want. You can put up hysterical posts all day long but punks like you who advocate violence have zero credibility.

Too bad you don't understand that part of tolerance is understanding that the law protects people (and businesses) that we don't like as well as the ones we do. There is a big difference between opposing a business through legal means and advocating violence. You are truly pathetic.

"Has the Brooklyn Lowe's vanquished egg creams, first novels, and Dodgers nostalgia?"

Yes, to an extent. Not specificically to Lowe's of course--your claim is hyperbolic at best--but even people in their 30s in NYC remember when places where you could get egg creams were as common as pizza places in the 1970s. First novels? Umm, that's a literary pretense more than a New York aspiration. In fact it's a very suburban pretense to achieve the lofty goal of moving to NYC and writing a novel and going into fashionable debt. And Brooklyn Dodger's nostalgia is a cliche. While sad, not many of us really have as wistful nostalgia for the place as you'd think. But I think many people are upset that the location of that historic landmark is now public housing. How romantic.

For an example what "real" New Yorkers mean when they talk about the soul of this city being sucked away by chains, just look at Joe's Pizza on Bleeker Street. That location has existed for years. Everyone loved and knew about it. It even has been featured in many films. So what happens? The landlord raises the rent so a Domino's Pizza can move in. How suburban. And yes, Joe's is now just down the block. Which is okay. But it's not the same.

Nobody is against development and growth. But I think everyone wants to keep the economics as local as possible. And large chains do not think locallly. Wal*Mart could care less about NYC. And K*Mart's existence in the Village is bizarre, but their main clientelle are the NYU dorm rats. It makes sense, but doesn't make sense.

Oh, and speaking of NYU thanks to them many parts of the Village that have true historic value are now nothing more than dorms (The Palladium) and cafeterias (The Bottom Line). Heck, NYU and the Tisch family basically OWN the Village.

Maybe the "real" New Yorkers would not be so upset at the transplanted New Yorkers if the transplants would just realize that there are many things that are gone that everyone could appreciate. Only to be replaced by faceless consumption machines.

Someone call the Children's Television Workshop and tell them they have to update their set. The fact that "Mr. Hoopers" newstand/candy-stand is still in business is factually wrong. In the real world that would have beena Duane-Reade by now and the vacant lot Big Bird lives on would be a Richard Meier condo building.

yes, kojak, that's an easy list to add to. from the midwest we get corn, soybeans, beef, pork, milk, eggs, chicken, wheat, physicians and surgeons, writers, engineers and methamphetamine. the midwest is experiencing a brain drain. the people bound for success leave because the culture is sucked dry and the economy is slowly dying.

"You are in league with the people who bomb abortion clinics - congratulations."

Nola, thanks for writing one of the most hysterical over-reactions of the year! LOL! If you're going to say that, I'll say that you are then in the league of neighborhood destroying thugs like Robert Moses! It's an equally apt statement. What's even funnier is reading this: "Funny how many people in this town who regard themselves as tolerant and open minded are anything but." Good lord! Sorry, I'm not tolerant of a big name faceless chain that only sees its customers and it's employees as cogs in a money machine. You realize you're talking about people's acceptance--or non-acceptance--of Wal*Mart as if it were a race issue? You're hillarious.

There's one thing I know for sure Nola. Wal*Mart could care less about you personally or anyone personally. And they could care less about this city in general.

In all seriousness, please continue to defend Wal*Mart and other major chains who could not care less for you and the community. It makes us all laugh out loud whole-heartedly! Not all chains are alike. And not all activists are alike. And in all honesty, the main reason people defend places like Wal*Mart is simply price. Nothing more. And nothing less.

If you're so willing to sacrifice the long-term health of a neighborhood so you can save $2 on a 6-pack of socks, then that says more about your own cheapness and "penny wise, pound foolishness" than you can imagine.

Between the news of this and the scuttling of the assinine Jet's statdium plan, Ihave hope in this city again. I have nothing against development and growth. But I'm sick of NYC being mallified to the highest degree.

New York has survived being the high holy throne of finance capitalism since, well, the first Dutch toes trod upon its virginal shores. I suspect Gotham might endure the arrival of a handful of chain stores. Did the Astor Place K-Mart bring the four horsemen of urban apocalypse galloping across the plains? Has the Brooklyn Lowe's vanquished egg creams, first novels, and Dodgers nostalgia? The self-appointed defenders of our fair city's virtue endow our franchise invaders with far too much power, and sell short New York's ability to absorb and alter yet another arrival from elsewhere.

Now now hijiki and gar. We must bridge the divide and embrace our Mid-Western hick red-neck friends.

They may take our wealth but they give back in other ways. Such as alot of the US Soliders fighting in Iraq. And....umm

Can anyone add to the list?

that's the point i was making, gar. the coasts (or more accurately the states with the largest cities) are subsidizing the midwest and the south. they are not wealthy 'yuppie' places churning out trust fund kids.

If Wal-Mart ever moves to NY, it wont be like 5 stores in Queens 10 in Brooklyn and so on. The price and small amount of land in NYC gives them little wiggle room.

And we won’t get any of those Ridiculous Wal-Mart Super centers the size of several city blocks like the ones they have in the Mid-West.

So keep your pants on.

Besides, NY employees who feel themselves getting ripped off my management will take matters into their own hands. Hopefully non violent way of course.

States Receiving Least in Federal Spending Per Dollar of Federal Taxes Paid:

Figure in parens is amount states receive back for every dollar paid in taxes.

1. New Jersey ($0.62)

2. Connecticut ($0.64)

3. New Hampshire ($0.68)

4. Nevada ($0.73)

5. Illinois ($0.77)

6. Minnesota ($0.77)

7. Colorado ($0.79)

8. Massachusetts ($0.79)

9. California ($0.81)

10. New York ($0.81)

you midwest haters are so far off base it's pathetic. i come from the midwest and have lived here for over a decade and i know that i have done more in opposition to big box and chain stores than the average 'native' (pfft... what is a native in nyc?).

why do you think people move from the midwest to the city? getting away from the mcCulture is a big reason and that's also the reason most midwestern 'carpetbaggers' care more about protecting this city's local character. our communities were destroyed by corporate farming, strip malls and superstores. we've seen how quickly it can happen.

and what's this daddy's credit card garbage? all of my midwestern peers came here by way of their own hard work. perhaps you've heard of the infamous midwestern work ethic? midwesterners aren't typically anywhere near as wealthy as new englanders and west coasters... afterall our taxes do subsidize their infrastructure.

walmart has nothing to do with midwestern culture... they helped to bulldoze it and they're doing the same to our neighbor states. you 'natives' who think you have some sort of birthright to kick out midwestern refugees of corporatization are more xenophobic than any redneck i grew up with. how embarrassing for you.

Read all about how community-minded Target Stores Inc. is at http://www.targetunion.org/

"Let's hope for a blackout and a looting riot that targets Wal Mart"? You are one serious asshole. It is one thing to oppose Wal Mart but to support looting is disgusting. You are in league with the people who bomb abortion clinics - congratulations. Funny how many people in this town who regard themselves as tolerant and open minded are anything but. Fortunately pipsqueaks like you are all bark and no bite. Now go back to your video games, loser.

Capt. Obvious, we harbor no favorable sentiment toward you or toward Wal-Mart. It's not an either/or proposition. Thanks for once again wandering forehead-first into a low-hanging beam.

To all of those who complain about the complainers, here's a question for you.

Why are you defending a faceless big box chain store who really could not care less about you and the city?

Also, to these same chain-store defenders, why the f--k do you get so upset when actual members of the community stand-up, fight-back and say "NO!!!!"

The reason people bring up their "real New Yorker" status is simple. It's because too many people who come from outside of this state to live here for the 5-7 years they usually do--statistically speaking--could not care less about the long term benefits to the local community. The local community that has helped make New York what it is.

Sorry, but I could care less about yuppies who "support" their local community by shopping at the one or two quaint boutiques they "love" but shun the long-term businesses out there.

And for those who would still defend Wal*Mart, I'm sure the staff at corporate head quarters for Wal*Mart are feeling better now that one or two people want to shill for them.

And like someone else pointed out, there are good community minded chains out there. Target is a great example. And few people opposed them coming to NYC. Wal*Mart? Let them stay the f--k out of this city. And if they do choose to staty here, let's hope for a blackout and a looting riot that targets Wal*Mart. Nobody could care less about Wal*Mart, and Wal*Mart could care less about you.

Dear Wal Mart:

I don't care where you're from, just go away and never come back.

Also? The Midwest is more than a place - it's a state of mind, or lack thereof.

Dear Offbalance,

We are from the South. Like Cracker Barrel.

Thanks,

Wal-Mart

By the way, there is already (blessedly) a Target in Rego Park.

Oh frabjous day!!

Even on the eve of us being invaded by another purveyor of chain slop food, at least this one victory can make my day a little brighter, knowing that my home city is protected from the sprawl of midwestern carpetbaggers and their desire to destroy new york.

And I agree with Meh about the Midwest - GO HOME!

I guess they saw all the hateful Cracker Barrell posts and got scared.

My sister works at a Target. She has a 401(k), maternity leave, a PPO health plan, and is paid for overtime. There is a difference.

I suspect if Wal-Mart marketed a Michael Graves toaster it wouldn't matter to most people if the employees were cleaning the toilets with their tongues. But whatever. Personally, I was hoping that Wal-Mart would come to Queens, because the pressure to allow workers to organize would have been intense and could have brought the whole issue of Wal-Mart and its refusal to allow workers any sort of collective bargaining power to a tipping point. Alas.

Also:

Mommy and Daddy's credit card!

I've lived here longer and remember when New York was tough!

The Midwest sucks! Go back there!

Yuppies!

So much for you can't fight City Hall.

Now if we can just get these damn Olympians out of here...

Oops, ment God AWFUL

Bring back kmart!

Have you ever watched South Park? You cannot stop the Wal-Mart. When you think you are free from their grip on you, they just lower their prices, and throw in 2 for 1 deals without you even noticing, and then its just too late.

Eventually you'll see a Wal-Mart in NYC, its only a matter of time. Its one of the world's must successful companies for a reason. My bets is that they will try to relocate to Fresh Meadows and replace that god KOHLS store.