Gothamist: Mourning Kerry

grieving-in-NYC

Fri, 05 Nov 2004 01:07:18 -0500

We all need to stop haggling over this and get on with things - yes, mourn (I cried during Kerry's concession speech yesterday)- yes, have conversations with like-minded friends and family --- but stop being immature and pedantic. There is nothing that any of us can do to reverse what happened on November 2nd and 3rd. We liberals need to take the time that we need to re-group, and then organize and spend the next 4 years fighting for what we believe in (in the words of Planned Parenthood Action Network: Organize, don't Agonize!). and yes, "Janine (another Janine though)" I DO think we should have a national, standardized voting procedure... if India (which some people refer to as a "3rd World Country") has one, is it not ABSURD that we, the "American super power", do not???

Livin_in_Cin

Thu, 04 Nov 2004 22:34:38 -0500

Wow... a bit ticked, nasty? let's see - inbred moron, eyebrow overhang (like Kerry's? - is it unibrow as well?), country brethern, idiot... I love you too, nasty - you open-minded, tolerant liberal, you... xoxoxoxo. Kerry took 14 or 88 Ohio counties - Cuyahoga by the largest amount. That would be 16% of the counties. Bush took 51% of Ohio popular vote - mirroring the national totals - with 84% of the counties. If you look at the USA today link, the national county map shows a similar pattern. Blue NE, blue big cities. If you drill and drain the cesspools of Philly, Detroit and Chicago - Bush wins those states hands-down. (btw - as for the voting machines: Rendell is a dirtbag, I would not put it past him and the only denial of cheats in Philly that I saw came from him...) hey - losing sucks, not learning from it sucks even more. the election was a true abattoir for the liberal left. Daschle went down in a heep, and the GOP took 4 Senate seats to get to 55. But you know what is really funny though - the overbearing sense of schadenfreude aside - is that all these doorknobs from the DNC are on TV saying "this isn't a mandate!!!" my ass it isnt a mandate. I'm sure these same people felt the same way about Kennedy's 49.7% / 300 electoral vote total in 1960... ha... in any event - the DNC is down to inner city welfare slugs, union thugs and 'intellectuals' from metro areas: people so smart in their own minds that they don't realize that LIBERALISM DOES NOT WORK. NEVER DID, NEVER WILL. As soon as the inner city people figure out that 35 years of liberalism has enslaved them and robbed them of their human decency, you'll be down to you and the greasy-knuckled UAW guy that fixes your Volvo. Oh sure, the folks in Brown County OH may not grow up to be Rocket Scientists and MBA's (oh - wait - I did... hmmm....) but they work hard, live clean, and are a hell of a lot smarter in a real-world sense than you could even hope to be. I expect, as in 2002, that the Dems will decide that they (a) did not get their message out and that (b) their loss signifies a need to go further left. HAHAHAHAHA.... yeah, brilliant! ahhh - drink deep the emetic elixir of defeat, nasty! mmmmm..... ahhhhhhhh.....

Cincinnastiest

Thu, 04 Nov 2004 16:52:07 -0500

Lest visitors to this board come to the rash conclusion that everyone from Cincinnati is an inbred moron with an eyebrow overhang like the oh so cutely named Livin in Cin, I would like to defend my state and remind everyone that Ohio was not a sweep for Bush. My county, which is decidedly not stupid, nor overwhelmingly poor, had a significant turnout for Kerry – of which I was one. Also, Cin, while we're on the subject of 'stupidity' the majority of folks in Ohio who voted for Bush were rural voters who, statistically speaking, have the lowest rates of education in the state. So, Cin, in essence you're calling your country brethren stupid. How absolutely charitable of you. Oh, and by the way, the "preloaded" votes in Philly turned out to be excitable Republican poll observers who read the counter on the machines wrong. Idiot. The truth can be SO inconvenient. Go start your own party, I do believe you're too full of crap to be in either one.

Livin_in_Cin

Wed, 03 Nov 2004 23:50:50 -0500

1992, 1996 - Clinton won both without getting anywhere near 50% and in 2000, as we all know, Halliburton and the Supreme court appointed Bush even though he didn't get 50%. That would be three elections. the point was that for a guy that didn't get 50% last time, he blew past it this time. again with the education, it seems the poor and stupid vote for the democrats; as is evident in the county-by-county results from USA Today (eliminate Philly, Detroit and Chicago and Bush wins PA, MI and IL). If those folks ever figure out that 35 years of liberal-socialist utopia has turned them into wards of the state, surfs and slaves, the Dems are in trouble.

well...

Wed, 03 Nov 2004 23:01:50 -0500

Did not realize that brackets would make my quotes disappear. The parts I quoted were 1. "first since 1988 to top 50% of the popular vote" from Livin in Cin, and 2. "And, as Livin in Cin mentioned, the only education-related groups who voted for Kerry were the people who never went to school ("No High School"), and the people who never left school to get a job ("Post Grad Study")."

well...

Wed, 03 Nov 2004 22:59:13 -0500

> I just don't find that very impressive, considering that there have only been 2 other elections since 1988, and that 50% was only topped by 1.3. > That's not what Livin in Cin said. He said "post grad degree," which means they did leave school to get a job, and probably got one of the best jobs.

Livin_in_Cin

Wed, 03 Nov 2004 22:18:14 -0500

further breakdown (by county) of the vote. http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/vote2004/countymap.htm pretty amazing how RED even the blue states are whenyou look at them county-by-county.

Livin_in_Cin

Wed, 03 Nov 2004 22:13:57 -0500

BF: Bush did not "orchestrate" the election or his victory any more than Kerry "orchestrated" his own demise. Kerry was the one that kept switching handlers (borught in the Clinton hachet team at the end - never heard a peep from Mary Beth Cahill throughout October, did you???? hmm? honey2: As for the electronic voting machines and such - you better wrap a cullender with aluminum foil and wear it on your head so the black helicopters don't pick-up your brain waves. It was Philly, mind you, that started the day with 5,000 pre-loaded votes for Kerry, and Chicago, in 1960, that had the IBEW punching Kennedy ballots into the wee hours of the morning. It was also in Toledo that the Dems rolled out "Crack the Vote" - paying homeless guys with crack to fill out fraudulent voter registrations. those are facts. why did "terrorist targets" like Chicago, NYC and California go Kerry? not because of terrorism or security - it's the inner city poor, the unions, the uneducated as was shown previously, the slaves of the nanny state. that is why the worker's paradise of Detroit (for instance) went for Kerry, and why NYC did as well. NJ should have been locked up for Kerry but was in play because of 9-11. and yes I know we have more people and higher turn-out, but a fact is a fact - first since 1988 to top 50% of the popular vote, and the most votes ever. so while 48.2% of the population voted for Kerry and are nursing their wounds today, 51.3% of us are pretty damn happy. btw - check the CCN map of PA - only Philly and Pgh went heavily Kerry. Although to be honest - I am far more excited by Daschle's loss than by Bush's win.

j

Wed, 03 Nov 2004 19:57:13 -0500

joe, I didn't intend to guess at your affiliation -- I'd been hearing the same argument from the Dems I live/work with, and was really speaking more to them. You just happened to bring the topic up. In a similar vein, I also found myself pointing out several times during the day that the "popular vote" controversy of the last four years somehow managed to disappear overnight.

joe

Wed, 03 Nov 2004 16:46:21 -0500

j, how do you know I'm a Democrat? I was just pointing out that our population has grown a lot, more than doubled in the last century, and the pool of eligible voters has grown even faster. John Kerry received the 2nd greatest number of votes in history, more than Ronald Reagan in 1984. Mean anything? Not really, there are 50 million more people living in the U.S. now than twenty years ago.

Beth

Wed, 03 Nov 2004 16:45:34 -0500

Folks, Geroge Bush is no fool, and libs who spit that are doing themselves a disservice. But I think he is a man who mostly takes pleasure in the life of leisure. I was struck yesterday when I heard him say on NPR, reflecting on this last leg of the campaign, "There's just something so refreshing about giving your all..." This seemed gentlemanly enough. But then I started to think: who would say that but someone who wasn't USED TO giving his all? In truth, Bush's unbridled confidence and paradoxical lack of locution ability that charm me (maybe some NYC dorkophiles can identify). But this is also a guy who's less indebted to his citizenry than to a "higher authority." That makes him about as useful as a kosher hot dog to those of us who could use health care, or social security, or abortions. Trouble is, unless Dems can find themselves a candidate who is smart and also seems like he might be good company at a barbeque, they (we) are going to keep losing. So Hillary better start flipping those burgers right quick.

Janine(another Janine, though)

Wed, 03 Nov 2004 16:18:14 -0500

Does anyone else think we should have a national, nonpartisan, standardized voting procedure? I know it would be really expensive, but wouldn't it be worth it?

j

Wed, 03 Nov 2004 16:14:52 -0500

Leave it to a Democrat to point out that the vote totals and disparity are a function of a larger population, even as others spout off about the number of people currently jobless (in comparison to Hoover's day, of course) without making for the same allowance. Incidentally, people who earn over $50,000/year voted 56% for Bush and 43% for Kerry. And, as Livin in Cin mentioned, the only education-related groups who voted for Kerry were the people who never went to school ("No High School"), and the people who never left school to get a job ("Post Grad Study"). EVERY SINGLE OTHER GROUP voted for Bush by at least 5% (high school grads, "some college", and college grads). Oh, the no-high-schoolers were split 49% to 50% -- so, Kerry barely carried the idiots. As long as I'm rollin': 11% of registered Democrats voted for George Bush.

joe

Wed, 03 Nov 2004 15:43:24 -0500

You make some good points, Livin in Cin, but you also repeat some mathematical fallacies. That Bush won more votes than any previous Presidential candidate, and won by a wider margin of votes is a function of population growth and his popularity. There's a really good chance the next person elected President will get more votes, and win by a greater number of votes, than Bush simply because the US population will be larger. The vote did not "come down to Ohio". The media media repeats that nonsense ad infinitum. The winning candidate has to get 270 electoral college votes. It may make convenient, compelling drama to have Ohio, a closely contested state, be the state to report when the vote gets decided, but the order in which the state results are reported are irrelevant. What if Ohio's results were exactly the same but they were able to process their vote count much faster? Tom Brokaw might then report "As reported earlier Ohio had a very close vote today, but it was Utah, with only five electoral votes, that pushed Bush over the top when he won 71% of the vote in that state."

FedUp

Wed, 03 Nov 2004 15:35:38 -0500

So can someone please explain to me what exactly George Bush is protecting your rural or suburban Midwestern town from? Surely if there was no answer then the hot buzzword "security mom" wouldn't have been coined, right?

Janine

Wed, 03 Nov 2004 15:31:10 -0500

vit, you're talking to BF. I was the one spewing partisan hate (which I will continue to do at least through the weekend).

vit

Wed, 03 Nov 2004 15:15:21 -0500

Janine -- I come by gothomist by way of chicagoist and it is very true what you say that those cities who are most affected by terrorists threats (and having our resources drained trying to fund responses to unrealised threats) voted against Bush in the largest numbers. Kerry won 81% of the urban vote here in Chicago.

honey2

Wed, 03 Nov 2004 15:03:46 -0500

electronic voting lost this election for kerry. no paper trail. no way to verify that the data wasn't screwed with. The code and security procedures were never examined by a nonpartisan group. There is no way repubs can prove this election wasn't stolen. The computer voting machines were made by Wally O'dell, the head of diebold, who said that he would deliver Ohio for Bush. This is why electronic voting without transparency and a paper trail is a bad. BAD for democracy. Bad for trust. Bad for unity. Bush stole the election. He can't prove that he did not.

BF

Wed, 03 Nov 2004 14:56:20 -0500

Livin in Cin (awesome name by the way!) You think Bush himself orchestrated this election? You are an idiot, obviously. What is interesting is that the areas most affected by terrorism (NYC and other major cities, California, etc.) voted for Kerry. I think that says something.

Janine

Wed, 03 Nov 2004 14:51:39 -0500

We have to accept it. The majority of the country is homophobic. The majority of the country does not think the Bill of Rights is important. I could go on, but it makes me very depressed. What do you do now that it's clear that people WANT a regressive agenda? don't know. I am an educated professional living in NYC, I'll be okay, barring an attack. To tell the truth, the next time I see some unemployed mid-westerner with no health-care lose her husband in Iraq (or Iran, or whatever's next), my liberal heart will bleed a lot less.

Livin_in_Cin

Wed, 03 Nov 2004 14:40:27 -0500

hmmmm... I haven't seen true polling data on education levels and voting trends, but in the past, the Dems usually took the majority of the "did not complete highschool" range and the "post graduate degree range", while the GOP took the middle grounders. make sense if you consider minority votes and immigrants - usually lower levels of education and more prone to vote for Democrats. As for divided country and such... some points: - Bush is the first since his daddy in 1988 to get more than 50% - Bush got more votes than anyone in history - Bush had the widest margin of victory in US Presidential history, even more than Reagan when he drubbed Mondale. - Bush gained 4 seats in the Senate for the GOP, including getting rid of Daschle. - Bush also gained about 5 seats in the House for the GOP. No recounts, no "I failed out of the electoral college", no "selected not elected" - he kicked ass, pure and simple. And it came down to good old Ohio, which is a bit ironic since you NE elitist have such contempt for 'fly-over' country. Well, fly-over country sent Kerry back to the mansion empty handed. "South Park" had it close - vote for the giant douchebag or the turd sandwich, the turd sandwich won. the evil genius moron from Texas beat the seditious, effete liberal billionaire. I realize intellectuals have a hard time coping with that, but like other truths of the world, they may eventually sink in. I mean really - if Bush is so stupid, so simple, and so incompetent, how did he pull off the greatest election night in history? Unless, or course, the socialists running the DNC are even more out-of-touch, more addlepated, and more pathetic than the evil genius moron cokehead fratboy from Crawford?? I guess it is time for P Diddy (is that a VD?) and Micheal Moore and Susan Sarandon and Springsteen to - uh - "moveon"

FedUp

Wed, 03 Nov 2004 14:34:10 -0500

Chris- and while you're at it take a reading comprehension class too. I said your STATE was homophobic. And I won't call you a racist, but I'm sure you're not losing any sleep over the killing of all the "brown people" in the Middle East. I won't even respond to your other gibberish. Now go find a church and pray for death to the hedonist infidels of the east and west coasts.

erikka

Wed, 03 Nov 2004 14:33:08 -0500

I'm sorry, Chris, but were you trying to make a point there? Spoken like a true Republican my friend.

Chris

Wed, 03 Nov 2004 14:15:20 -0500

I am the ignorant one? You just called me homophobic. Isn't that pretty ignorant to stereotype someone...wy don't you call me a racist while you are at it? Go back to your coffeehouse, write a nice spoken word poem about how stupid the country is, tell everyone how smart you are, go have an abortion and then do some stem cell research. Work at some meaningless job for some lame company that you accuse to be the problem, and keep accepting there checks because they pay for your loft in Soho. And then go get your shinebox!

b

Wed, 03 Nov 2004 14:05:41 -0500

Chris, I'd request taking a math class. 49% of the population voted for Kerry, so I'd advise you not to use the word _all_. Keep in mind that every other person you see on the streets (more if you live in NYC) thinks you're a moron. Every poll shows that the more educated a voter is, the more likely they voted for Kerry. Congrats, Chris. This is a day the morons have won.

FedUp

Wed, 03 Nov 2004 14:03:38 -0500

Chris- you're a troll. Now go back to the xenophobic, homophobic, evangelical flyover-state shithole you came from. Unless you're a red New Yorker, which would make you a wealthy douchebag.

Chris

Wed, 03 Nov 2004 13:54:33 -0500

What a suprise! Kerry loses (admits DEFEAT) and still you people can accept it. It must be a conspiracy, how else could Bush win? All of you whiiny liberals have only yourself to blame, we are ALL sick of hearing you complain about EVERYTHING! Shut the F* up and accept your defeat! YOU LOST! You weren't scammed, or cheated; you LOST!

s

Wed, 03 Nov 2004 13:18:43 -0500

If another attack happens on Bush's watch, I pray to the god I don't believe in a northeastern, liberal atheist that every network does nothing but show clips of Cheney warning us about John Kerry and tellings us that if we make the wrong choice on Nov. 2nd, then the danger is that we'll get hit again. Since Cheney repeated it over and over again to scare voters, there should be more than enough tape for a great clip reel. Looking backward, it was one thing for Bush to take very little responsibility for 9/11 by saying that he had only been in office for 8 months and that the plot had been in the works for longer, but now this is it. Looking forward, Bush owns his record. He can not - although spinmeisters will try their darndest - blame his failures on anyone but himself. It's too late to keep calling this a Clinton recession. It's too late to blame our woes on the bubble burst of teh 90s. If only we could count on the media to ask the real questions. Again, lord whom I don't believe in, help us all if our Democratic congresspeople sing "God Bless America" on the steps of the Capitol building following a bombing. Instead, let's hope they show some spine and call for an immediate investigation if not the resignation of George W. Bush.

mike c

Wed, 03 Nov 2004 13:14:03 -0500

FOUR MORE YEARS....of quality Daily Show!

S.D.

Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:57:57 -0500

IMO: Rational Thinking left the US political Scene a long time ago. I think people believed the propganda of fear more than GW's Record. Just Great. At least 4 more years in IRAQ (What's a few more Thousand casualties? They Died Free...), At least 4 more Years of Corporations getting Tax breaks, At least 4 more Years of Increasing Oil Prices, At least 4 more Years of Record Federal Deficits, At least 4 more Years of Imprisoning US Citizens indefinately with out so much as a hearing... Bah. I said it before: Many People just want to know "Am I Safe???" God help us if we get Yet Another Terrorist Attack on GW's Watch.

Good Grief

Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:23:35 -0500

You know what? This really is annoying on two levels. One, Kerry lost. But two, this quick turnaround is proving all the campaign rhetoric that Bush was slinging at him. It makes Kerry out to be the weak flake Bush made him out to be. Pathetic all around. I almost regret voting for Kerry at this point.

Kojak

Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:20:15 -0500

November 3rd will now be the national day of mourning, the Day Rational Thinking and common sense died. RIP