Extra, Extra
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Extra, Extra
Early Addition
The pundits are talking about how Senator Kerry seemed "presidential" and how President Bush only had thirty minutes of material, as the respective presidential aides are trying to spin that their candidate won the debate. Our thoughts: John Kerry was solid, strong and articulate, even if he's kind of a bore, while President Bush, though very approachable, unraveled towards the end - he was Pausey McPausepants. Not that everyone can be a smooth talker, but it'd be nice to have confidence in the person speaking. President Bush will need to find at least his B-game if he wants to be competitive in the debates. Newscoverage from the NY Times and Washington Post (WP TV critic Tom Shales quotes a politico saying "It was Andy Griffith meets Barney Fife.") ; the NY Post headline is "Toe to Toe," though in the article, they do note Kerry was more prepared and the President was repetitive and seemed unsure. And check this out: The NY Times' Katherine Seelye basically blogs the debate; no mention of any drinking games played. [Per a reader's comment yesterday, we'll work on a drinking game for the next debate, but some early thoughts: 1 drink if Bush smirks; 1 drink if they mention Osama; 1 drink if Kerry's face looks more melty than usual; 1 drink if Bush breaks a rule; 1 drink if Kerry can't really smile because he's using some of Theresa's Botox; 2 drinks if the candidate compliments the opponent; 2 drinks if they invoke September 11; chug if there's substantial domestic policy debate; chug if Bush has a coherent response...and if Bush starts speaking in Spanish, go to your local bar and drink and drink and drink...yeah, you might not chug, but you'll still get ass-drink.]
The other interesting debate of the day: The debate between puppet versions of Bush and Kerry, put on by the folks from Avenue Q. Newsday reports repartee like:
"Military service in Vietnam was every young man's civic duty!" exclaimed Kerry.
"Who gives a doody?" replied Bush.
More political comedy to come on late night television and Saturday Night Live, which has its season premiere tomorrow, with Ben Affleck and Nelly. And what did you think?
Photos of Kerry and Bush (top 2) by Jim Young for Reuters. Photo of Jennifer Barnhart with puppets (bottom) by Bebeto Matthew for the AP.
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One drink for every Bush smirk would have everyone--hardy alkies included--gently twitching and passed out on the floor inside of 20 minutes.
there was a drinking game mentioned on Howard Stern yesterday morning. One of the rules I think I remember was take a shot every time Kerry says "I believe...", I would have been on the floor after 3 minutes. Sadly the one I remember from Bush was drink when he says nUclare instead of nuclear. I didn't catch any of those, did anyone else?
Kerry did an adequate job, not great, but good. I was surprised that he wasn't as effective at closing down Bush's limited material.
Bush played the consistency line well, but he played it so hard that he was basically saying he was the better candidate, not because he was right, but because he was consistent.
Kerry could have done a better job of neutering the flip flop charge by pointing to simple cases where leaders and presidents took one position, then thought better of it and took another, and the nation was better for the change. He also could have given examples of where leaders and presidents hung on to one point and stuck with it when they really needed to admit a mistake and change course. I can imagine Ronald Reagan having made a point like that in a folksy but rhetorically powerful way.
When Bush said "And if I were to ever say this is the wrong war at the wrong time at the right -- wrong place, the troops would wonder, 'How can I follow this guy?'", Kerry should have replied " The troops don't want to hear lies. They want to hear the truth. Mr Bush, you should know that a president's job is not to tell people just want they want to hear. A president's job is to lead the country with conviction and with the facts and to tell people the truth." He could then have launched once more into 'and the facts are that President Bush has sent our troops, our country's sons and daughters, into harm's way without adequate support. If President Bush has built such an impressive coalition, why are American men and women 90 percent of the casualties in Iraq? Why is our country shouldering 90 percent of the costs? etc. He could have really drilled this harder but did not.
I did think Kerry did a good job of pointing out the misplaced focus on SH vs OBL, though i don't know if it was effective enough to someone who is "undecided". (I don't get the undecideds. I get the ones who will vote for Kerry and even the ones who will vote for Bush. But undecided?)
I was relieved that the networks did the split screen and reaction shot thing. Don't know whether it was because the decision made "good TV" or because they took their responsibility as the fourth estate seriously. but i thought at last the press did _something_ right.
Lastly, i thought some of Jesse Klein's http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/blog/09/30/klein.blog/ was funny in a sometimes hilarious and sometimes sad way. When she wrote "I'm just noticing that Kerry has really weird thumbs. I'm not sure America should be led by a guy with such weird thumbs. I think Bush really needs to jump on that." it cracked me up. We do make decisions based on the most inane irrelevant things.
Two last funny bits from her blog
- " love that Kerry seems to have learned about 23 other distinctive hand motions besides his signature, much-maligned karate chop. But the thing is, you can tell the one he's really dying to use is the karate chop. Don't do it, John. DON'T do it."
- "Bush just talked about how he wakes up every morning thinking about how to keep America safe. I'm not sure I buy the 'thinking' or 'waking up' part."
Oh, my. The tide is turning.
Hey everyone, if you are interested in keeping the momentum going, please take some time this weekend - or any weekend over the next month - to go to a swing state. I spent the day in Reading, PA last Saturday and it was incredibly worthwhile and easy to do. The bus ride - with lots of like-minded Kerry supporters - was a lot of fun and a bag lunch was waiting for us when we arrived. We spoke to a lot of undecided voters, most of whom were impressed that we came down from New York to volunteer. We signed up volunteers, had some great conversations and hopefully persuaded some key swing voters. I highly recommend it! It is a great way to turn your enthusiasm into action.
I know trips to Ohio are also needed. If you can go further afield, why not use some frequent flier miles and go to Florida, Wisconsin or other key swing states?
And if you live in New Jersey, you can do stuff in your own backyard. We need you, Garden State!
Even just a few hours of volunteering per week between now and the election can make a difference. I know democracyinthepark.org has events scheduled here in the city. Check them out.
kerryvillage.org or acthere.com for more info.
My mind was made up to vote for a Kerry a long time ago. That being said, Kerry trounced on Bush last night (if Bush had won the debate, I'd be able to admit it).
Bush was clearly angry and agitated last night. He was constantly on the defensive. He kept sticking to samed canned lines (like how everything was "hard work"). The reactions shots were the most telling. He often was smirking, sighing, looking away. One of Bush's strong points is that he really can play off the energy of a crowd. He couldn't do that last night and he fell flat (especially when he was trying to be funny). Kerry, meanwhile, managed to not look so stiff and boring. He was concise, calm and collected. Very presidential, in fact.
Bush cleared had vapor lock at a number of points. Plus, some of his responses were so bizarre. The Poland comment? Or suddenly bringing up the international criminal court? And what's up with calling terrorists "folks"?
In the end, Kerry supportors will say Kerry won and Bush supporters will say Bush won. But if I were an undecided voter, I'd be taking a strong second look at Kerry right now.
That being said, I'd like to see Teresa and "Stepford wife" Laura debate....
to s's point, there was yesterday's times article on ny'ers going to swing states.
and dirk, how many times might teresa tell laura to "shove it"? that could be a drinking game for that debate.
What's amazing to me is how often Bush said that being president is "hard
work." OF COURSE it's hard work! You're the leader of the free world, the
most powerful man on the planet! Making economic, environmental, military,
domestic and other legislative decisions is tough? Dealing with the many
problems facing this country is difficult? Really? I would expect a
president to WORK HARD. Why he has to keep explaining that to people who
don't get three months of vacation, government sponsored health care and a
pension is beyond me and, frankly, is insulting.
If we're going to drink when they mention Osama, we need to also drink when they mention Saddam.
And I propose a drink every time Bush talks about this being "hard work." We know, W.
Everytime Bush refers to the presidency as being "hard work", what I hear is "I'm dangerously underqualified!"
Hey, I am too! It's ok, W. Come market wine with me. Compared to the presidency, it's a frickin' breeze. We'll all be better off.
We've all seen the photoshop comparisons between Bush and Alfred E Newman... Did anyone else notice the likeness was especially striking last night during the 'unauthorized cutaways' to W when Kerry was speaking? GWB is an utter bufoon. I can't imagine any Bush supporter who actually saw the whole debate feeling good about their candidate today.
[url]http://www.debates.org/pages/trans2004a.html[/url]
http://www.debates.org/pages/trans2004a.html
i love all these comments!
work on your parents! last weekend I had the talk with my Catholic/Republican Mom (who lives in NJ) and my mom is voting for Kerry!
The more I see of John Kerry, the less he seems like Lurch and more like Abraham Frikkin' Lincoln !
I am gradually converting from "anyone but Bush" to actually liking John Kerry for Prez.
Anyone else notice that Bush had a whistling booger (either that or all the coke has given him a permanent whistle-y inhale),
that's got to be distracting when you are on national TV without a kleenex.
I just hope that Kerry doesn't flip flop again in the next few days. That would be the nail in the coffin!
While JK is a skilled debater, his true, arrogant, snobbish, "I am better than you"-self was obviously apparent during his non-speaking moments of the "split screen". While GWB was speaking, the split screen showed JK true smarminess; looking down his nose like he had just stepped into some doggie doo; or - like an impoverished child had just approached him asking for money.
JK "won" as a debater, but GWB won on issues, staying on message, and being able to plainly convey his plan(s) for the next four years, while JK could only repeat his mantra of "I have a better plan" while failing to articulate any specific details of his "better plans".
GWB popularity and debate skills will improve over the next two debates while JK's will sink -- very, very similar to the 2000 debates with Al Gore.
If GWB is goign to get better, he better show up with less squints and more lines. JK may not be a prize, but there is noting more arrogant than sending men to die for the sake of adventure, and nothing more snobbish than thinking you're above serving. It's hard to say GWB won on issues since he didn't really raise any... just stood there saying this presidenting thing is tough.
zdean, GWB won on issues? ha! what a joke! bush avoided many of the questions (why did he bring up the international criminal court?), rarely provided specifics, and (as others have pointed out above) merely whined about how hard his job is.
well, boo-hoo, bush. if the job is so hard, mr. president, maybe you should step aside, because we all know someone more able to take on the work! kerry gave clear plans for the next few years and played to his strength, nuclear proliferation, while our poor president is still trying to figure out how to pronounce _nuclear_.
Amazingly, I think Bush did worse than he did in 2000 against Gore. With four years on the job, one would have hoped for a better performance, but it didn't happen.
Expect the negative campaigning and ads to be RELENTLESS in the weeks to come. If they can't beat Kerry face to face, the appeals to the negative side of voters (like accusing liberals of wanting to ban the Bible) will only increase.
Oh, minor point overall, but what's up with Kerry saying the NYC subways were shut down during the Republican Convention? I winced when I heard him say that -- c'mon, Kerry's people should do some fact checking.
I have a torrent of the debate up at my website: http://www.cryptocity.net/~dan/ if anyone wants it
zdean -- Kerry SHOULD be better than me. I live in a two-bedroom apt. in Brooklyn. He's a 20+ year senator. I hope he's smarter than me. I watched Bush last night and seriously thought at times that I could beat the guy in a debate.
Kerry did what he needed to do. Bush has been president for four years, these are HIS policies he's defended. If he can't hands down, without a doubt win a debate about his policies that he has already put in place, then he loses the debate. That's exactly what happened last night.
I'm surprised that I haven't seen mention of the Osama/Saddam gaffe that Bush made. While being questioned about the logic behind hunting down Osama, and the suddenly switching to Saddam, Bush got the two mixed up, saying "But to say that there's only one focus on the war on terror doesn't really understand the nature of the war of terror. Of course we're after Saddam Hussein - I mean bin Laden."
How can Bush purport to have a strong handle on national security when he can't even keep his enemies straight?
SHEESH!! Which party is using negative campaigning? It sure is not Bush/Cheney. For 40-50 yr's the libby-crats have used nothing but cheap shots, scare tactics, and lies in their attempts to win elections.
Agit -- are you saying fighting terrorism is EASY? Well, I guess it is or was if you were a supporter of Clinton/Gore. Their admin did little to combat terrorism. Madeline Albright simply appeased North Korea for her 4 yrs, as did Wm Christopher prior to her. And how is saying "We're working hard" any different from Clinton croaking out, when he wanted to escape from a press conference, "...and now I have to go back to do the work the American people elected me to do," ?? We all know he was just going back into the Oral office for a little TLC.
Jenny -- no politician of any party is better than you, or me, or anyone else. The question is which party can provide the opportunities for us to excel in our work and lives to better our own situation(s).
We can all agree to disagree on this board. My point is, that for my vote, and my beliefs, a conservative gov't is far, far better at allowing individuals to excel, than a liberal gov't where "handouts" are given as token gifts. Remember how easy it was to spend money as kid, that was given to us by our parents? And how much more judiciously we spent our money after we began earning it ourselves?
Just my thoughts on what's been posted. Peace and best wishes to all who post...no personal grudges here -- just a good place for intelligent discussion.
I am a young student keeping up with the election day by day. And George W. Bush should be ashamed for what he has done to this economy and reputation of the U.S. When he first found out the Iraqies were here he should have put up front more security. And spending all this money on a war that is doing nothing but causing more and more countries day by day to dis-like us more. He is also risking more and more of our devoted American's life. At last I can say vot John he will set things right 1 step at a time.
I am a young student keeping up with the election day by day. And George W. Bush should be ashamed for what he has done to this economy and reputation of the U.S. When he first found out the Iraqies were here he should have put up front more security. And spending all this money on a war that is doing nothing but causing more and more countries day by day to dis-like us more. He is also risking more and more of our devoted American's life. At last I can say vote John he will set things right 1 step at a time.