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Everyone is talking or writing about Dan Rather and CBS's News' questionable judgement over the National Guard documents, even going so far as to attach "-gate" to "Rather" just in case people out there couldn't figure out this was a bit scandalous. One caption on a Dan Rather photograph from Reuters read:
Internet bloggers have drawn blood and American journalism may never be the same. To hear some press experts tell it, CBS's admission on September 20, 2004 that it was duped into using questionable documents about President George W. Bush (news - web sites)'s National Guard service during the Vietnam War was a watershed moment brought on by a small army of Internet-based commentators known as bloggers.Gothamist can't wait for the day that words like "watershed" can stopped being used for everything, because at this point, if you really think about it, there are enough watershed moments to summon Noah. Jeff Jarvis appeared on Deborah Norville's MSNBC show last night to talk about "Rathergate." Jarvis, as well as other information-interested (Jason Kottke, Steven Berlin Johnson) bloggers have been all over this story since cbs first announced it had the supposed letters
Gothamist loved this headline from Jay Rosen's Pressthink: Did the President of CBS News Have Anyone in Charge of Reading the Internet and Sending Alerts? From what we can tell, the Internet doesn't enter the mainstream media until at least six months out. Anyway, some wonder if there's a blog backlash in the making (from CBS Marketwatch, no less) and whether or not blogs get the facts straight. Other wonder if this will speed up Rather's retirement plans. The NY Times analyzes Dan Rather's apology, which makes us think of ESPN Page 2's What Was Dan Rather Thinking?, the Dan Rather watchdog site, Rather Biased, and Gawker's Dan Rather Death Watch.
And to bring it back to the granddaddy of modern political scandals, Gothamist recommends you see the 1999 film Dick, which is the perfect comic complement to Alan Pakula's All the President's Men. If you thought Robert Redford made a good Bob Woodward, you haven't seen Will Ferrell in action.
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What CBS did was bad for jounalism, and it was stupid, but the fact that the media is giving this so much coverage while Bush is out there lying to Americans about how absolutely fu@#ed up Iraq is is the REALLY messed up part!
honey2, I am in total agreement. Although it's interesting that blogs are playing such a big roll and are getting coverage on the cable news.
The problem is: People are easily distracted from Real Issues.
The media is focusing on this Non-Event because at least they get responses from CBS. To add to the Pain, the Media and the Public loves it when a "respected" individual publicly makes an Ass of themselves. It makes Great TV. Dan Rather certainly won't loose his job.
People focus on this rather than the question those "Documents" posed. I think the Public has been Dumbed down too much.
For added enjoyment GW is taking advantage of People's Fear. Iraq is in Shambles, The Federal Gov't in Afghanistan doesn't even control ALL of the Capital City, The Deficit is Higher than the Moon and all John Q. Public wants to hear is "Am I Safe??" GW Says "You Betcha!".
You just have to ignore all the dead bodies.
just read it:
http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/archives/2004_09_19_dneiwert_archive.html#109561579200025548
Can't really blame CBS for being duped, IMHO. But blame should go to the countless hordes of folks who don't seem to mind that the president of the US isn't above having documents forged to keep him from looking bad. I know it was 30 years ago, but damn...
John Q. Public is SO stupid. It's good I can come here to listen in on the sagacity of the elite. Thank you for being so superior! What a breath of fresh air!
<Looking Benevonenlyt down Nose>
You're quite Welcome.
<sigh>
Look, IMO, Repeat IMO, A third Time IMO, all John Q. Public wants to hear is "Am I Safe??"
If you want to read that as "John Q. Public is SO stupid.", Hey, Knock Yourself out. My Point is: People want to be safe often at the expense of other issues.
Sincerly,
Elitest Snob
As if.
Has anyone heard/read/written anything about the rumor that the origin of the bad documents was none other than Karl Rove himself... to create more distracting noise and fry Dan Rather?
Dan Rather didn't need Karl Rove's help in frying himself. He based a story on evidence that was easily discredited. Let's just say that Rove was behind the documents - does that absolve CBS from their failure to verify their authenticity? Why doesn't Rove just pass CBS some fake criminal records on Kerry? Rather ran with the story because he was desperate to pin something on Bush. When a major network pulls something like that, you'd better believe it is front-page news.
I engaged in a spirited debate over on Memefirst about these documents last week. I kind of can't decide which side is dumb and nasty enough to produce these documents in this way. I'm so torn. The Republicans do have such a long and revered history with this sort of thing.
I watched Rather's apology and commented on it in real time on my blog. Although initially he disparaged the internet discussions, his apology was not directed (and he did not thank as a true newsperson would) bloggers for uncovering this fraud. I guarantee: Dan Rather barely knew what the Internet was 2 weeks ago, and he now has a much better understanding (and respect) for it.
Welcome to the 21st century Dan. Now retire.
Why would the GOP forge documents that support contentions against Bush? That's just crazy talk.
Someone opposed to Bush's re-election forged them - we can rule out a foreign intelligence service because they're too shoddy. My money is that it was a Democrat activist without DNC or Kerry/Edwards sanction. Yet the fact that Lockhart took a call from Burkett at Mapes' request is very, very suspicious. It shows that at the very least, CBS is completely in bed with the Kerry/Edwards campaign, and its broadcast license should be reviewed for that.
the reason they would do it is so that they would be discovered as fakes and democrats would be blamed. DUH.
Can anyone say "forged documents claiming Iraq was attemting to buy uranium from a certain african country?" Does that ring a bell? hmmm?
re: stupid american public...andrew card, bush's chief of staff, recently said the president "regards americans as ten year old children." check out this week's new yorker (talk of the town by george packer) for the full article.
If the press had spent as much time disproving the link between Saddam and WMD as they have proving the link between CBS, the forged documents and a supposed Kerry staffer, we might have never gone to war.
Shame on CBS for their sloppy, sloppy reporting, but where are our nation's priorities? People are dying every day over in Iraq and the best the media can offer is this collected schadenfreude at CBS's expense.
"It shows that at the very least, CBS is completely in bed with the Kerry/Edwards campaign, and its broadcast license should be reviewed for that."?
Sure, right after they review FOX News Networks and Affiliate Stations...
Being Biased would hardly be cause to get the License revoked. Plus, It would smack of Political Payback (Which is what it would be).
Back On topic:
IMO: CBS wanted to "Scoop" Everyone else and they bought a Pig in a poke. While I do think Karl Rove is an Eeeeevvvil Genius, I doubt he had a hand in this as it would Blow Up BIG Time if ever caught.
Did someone really suggest that REPUBLICANS were behind this??? You know, this is getting beyond belief. Its hard to believe the level of political discussion has fallen this low. If you were Burkett wouldn't you be working overtime to suggest that the guy who handed you the forged docs duped you and was a Rove plant?? He's not - he won't say who handed him the documents, cause he's an idiot up a creek right now.
I'm not a "conservative", whatever that means anyway, but put the shoe on the other foot - imagine that Fox News had run with fake documents on Kerry's past and the documents were a) a total fraud b) had made front page news and were picked up by everyone - if I remember correctly the Times put this on A1 the following day and it drove the news cycle for about a week and c) were sourced from a highly partisan individual with potential connections to the Bush campaign and had spoke to Rove - there would be an UPROAR like you would not believe from the left. I can only imagine that people would be BESIDES themselves if this were in reverse.
It works both ways people. Please don't led your extreme distaste for Bush cloud the fact that a major news organization really blew it. CBS f-ed up big time and someone should resign if they have any balls - if anything, the NYT, USA Today and others were held to the same standard last year. It's nice to see them throw Mary Mapes under the bus but it should be Dan-o taking as much heat. He's probably got too much pride/ego/whatever to resign but this is a black mark no matter what happens. Aren't there any journalists out there who can speak in a non-partisan way that this is a huge embarrassment for any self-respecting journalist - no matter what the political context???
As a former Mass resident, I'm a fan of Kerry (we seem to be dwindling in nature according to the polls) but I hope his people totally disown this clown who forged documents using MS WORD. Unreal.
I'm sympathetic to the posters who are frustrated that this distracts from the ISSUES (I'm in agreement). But - didn't quite hear anyone on the left complaining that "new questions" about Bush's Guard service was distracting the populace during the week this story first broke. This has been a race to the bottom on both sides whether its the Swift Boat people or Burkett.....
O Sterling don't get your knickers in a twist. It's certainly possible that the Republicans did it. I'm still not sure an overzealous CBS intern (a la Jayson Blair) didn't do it.
"imagine that Fox News had run with fake documents on Kerry's past"
they do it all the time
"they do it all the time"
umm....which ones? Have they made top posting on Page A1 of the Times? Did I miss that one?
Sterling,
it wouldn't be the first time for Rove to create counterfeit documents and leak them.
then there's this example:
This is exactly his game. They knew the information would come out anyway, just like the allegations of cocaine use. But by leaking it to someone who is easily discredited (like Burkett), they know the impact is lessened. Then their talking point becomes: "this is a crazy conspiracy theory peddled by a two-bit con artist."
voila. Game, set match. The republicans are really, really good at this.
So dirtgirl's evidence that Karl Rove is behind this consists of: 1) the fact that he stole stationary and printed fake invites when he was nineteen years old and 2) a convicted felon claims (but offers no evidence) that he got information on Bush from Rove.
Are you kidding me? Don't you realize that fruitcakes like you are more valuable to us Republicans than the Karl Roves of the world? Peddling insane conspiracy theories does not help your cause, just as books that accused Bill Clinton of murder didn't help Republicans.
One of you conspiracy cranks needs to explain how the Republicans knew CBS would use the obvious fakes as the basis of their report. As I said before, if Karl Rove knows that CBS will use documents without checking them out, why wouldn't he doctor up an embarrassing police report on Kerry or Edwards and get that on the air?
Silly Question: Anyone actually get a hold of the alleged "1972 Conviction" Judge, procecutor, stenographer, etc??
It would not surprise me in the slightest if GW did Coke, but if true, "Expunged" records tend to stick around somewhere.
Did Hatfield have *any* Documentation? I tend to doubt it.
*AND* Did GW have him killed to Silence him?!?!?! (Hey, Clinton's a Mass-killer, right?? 70 people at last count? ;) )
And Nola, "Fruitcakes" like those Morons who gave themselves "Purple Heart" Band Aids at the RNC??
;)
nola,
you prove my point. leak this shit out then call us all conspiracy cranks.
whatever.
Why doesn't dirtgirl (or any other conspiracy nut) answer the question I've posed? How did Karl Rove know that CBS would be stupid enough to go on the air with obvious fakes?
And S.D., how do purple heart band-aids enter this discussion? Of course it was a stupid joke by the delegates. Almost as idiotic and offensive as calling Bush a Nazi. I thought we were discussing Rather. What is your point?
Nola, My point was simply "humor". See your "Fruitcakes" comment.
As for how does "purple heart band-aids" fit in: It has to do with the "Swift Boat's For Truth" Fruitcakes. You know, the ones that seem to think that a Young John Kerry could get Medals by false means, completely fooling the Navy and it's procedures? The ones who Implied his Wounds were Self-Inflicted? The Ones with **Documented** conections to Karl Rove **AND** GW Bush? Those Fruitcakes.
That's what "inspired" those Morons at the RNC to make these offensive jokes.
I have uncles whom were awarded Purple hearts in Europe and Korea. IMHO: While I generally am NOT violent, Those Jackasses should be beaten with a Stick.
So you think war medals are an important consideration when deciding who to vote for? Presumably you voted for Bush, Sr. and Dole rather than the draft-dodger Clinton, correct?
I don't see why questioning Kerry's medals insults your uncles. Does that mean questioning Bush's NG service insults everyone in the NG?
Are you denying that a soldier could get medals by false means? It's happened plenty of times. And Kerry did lie about being in Cambodia in Christmas of 1968 - would you like to beat him with a stick, too?
<sigh>
Ok, Fine I'll stay off Topic...
"So you think war medals are an important consideration when deciding who to vote for? Presumably you voted for Bush, Sr. and Dole rather than the draft-dodger Clinton, correct?"
Nola, Nope, I didn't even imply it. Sure Clinton was a Draft Dodger, not un like Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Tom Delay, Dennis Hastert, George Pataki or GW Bush. Oh Wait, GW Bush "Served" in the National Guard. How silly of me... Completed his Tour too. Why just ask the Many People Who have steped forth that served with him. I'm sure you'll Let me know when they Step forward.
Are you suggesting that S.B.F.T. Are telling the Absolute truth? Like George Elliott?
"The fact that he chased an armed enemy down is something not to be looked down upon, but it was an act of courage," Elliott said then.
Very Odd...
As for Bob Dole And GHW Bush, While I respect and thank them (It's because of people like them liberating Labor Camps in Germany that I'm even here!) I serously disagree with their politics. I can respect One aspect of a person, but disagree with their Political Stand.
"I don't see why questioning Kerry's medals insults your uncles. Does that mean questioning Bush's NG service insults everyone in the NG?"
Questioning Kerry's medals does NOT insults my uncles, Wearing a "Purple Heart" Bandaid Does.
It's insulting to the memory of anyone who has shed blood in the service of this Nation. I personally know of 5 Republican Vetrans who were insulted by those Bandaids. As For Bush NG "Service", At least Kerry has Documented evidence of the Events in question. Who has stepped forward and claimed the Cash Prize for GW's "Service" in Alabama?
"Are you denying that a soldier could get medals by false means? It's happened plenty of times. And Kerry did lie about being in Cambodia in Christmas of 1968 - would you like to beat him with a stick, too?"
Kerry compleatly lied in 1968 about being there, I mean the things he described never happpened as he witnesesed them, absolutly true, but Attrocities DID happen. As for his medals: Riiiightt, he Got several people to recomend him for his medals in Some Left Wing Conspiracy. I mean, He's the Manchurian Candidate, No?
Look, If you want to continue, Fine, but I really think it is Off Topic. You want to go back and Forth Ok, But I think it's better Off line. Feel free to Email me. I Won't SPAM you or reveal your Email.
With all due respect, S.D., we ended up off topic because you keep trying to use the CBS scandal as an opportunity to bash Bush.
The topic of the SBVT was introduced by you in an attempt to equivocate the two, as if a 527 advocacy group and a network news program could be held to the same standard. That is absurd - I may be disgusted with MoveOn.org, but I would never expect them to provide the accuracy or objectivity that network news organizations should be providing.
And get over your selective rage over the purple heart bandaids - they were making fun of Kerry, and whether or not you agree with their point, it has no bearing on others who have served and earned medals. Who do you think will get most of the veteran vote? The answer is Bush. Are you outraged by all the protesters (and MoveOn.org) who use Nazi imagery when bashing Bush? Or do you only get offended when liberals are being insulted?
<Sigh> Great, We'll Keep this off topic:
Nola, In all due Respect, That's Nonsense.
Let's see: I comment on What I think John Q Public wants, Point out:
Umm, Are Any of these Real Issues Not True??
Say it with me, Everyone: "Oh, Come on..."
Okkkkkkaaaayyy Now, How on Earth Is THIS an attack on Bush?
Silly Question: Anyone actually get a hold of the alleged "1972 Conviction" Judge, procecutor, stenographer, etc??
It would not surprise me in the slightest if GW did Coke, but if true, "Expunged" records tend to stick around somewhere.
Did Hatfield have *any* Documentation? I tend to doubt it.
*AND* Did GW have him killed to Silence him?!?!?! (Hey, Clinton's a Mass-killer, right?? 70 people at last count? ;) )
And Nola, "Fruitcakes" like those Morons who gave themselves "Purple Heart" Band Aids at the RNC??
;)
Again, Say it with me, Everyone, With Feeling: "Oh, Come on..."
You asked "And S.D., how do purple heart band-aids enter this discussion?" That's how SBFT got in. My Original Intent was to make light of the whole thing.
"no bearing on others who have served and earned medals."?
Oh, Please. Degenerating The Purple Heart Is Degenerating the people who recieved one. While your ati it, Why don't you pin on a Silver or Bronze Star and take a walk thru the VFW in Elmhurst. You'll be a big hit, I assure you...
As for the Nazi Imagery: That was one Entry in a Contest that included Hundreds of Entries. Moveon.org Pulled it as soon as they knew about it. If you want to Label things, You Might want to be a Little More Acurate with your facts. Just on a hunch, you participate on Free Republic Forums, Right?
For your Information, I **WAS** offended when a CHILD was allowed to go to High School with GW Bush labeled a "Terrorist" on his Shirt. In discussion, I objected then just as I would object now.
"Liberals"? I'm not sure You can even define one. IMO: You're Preocupation with Labels is silly. You want to know what Issues concerns me?
Kerry & Bush? They could be Called Brand X and Brand Y for all I care.
Look, I make a point about NOT discussing People's Religion and Frankly Politics for you Seems to be it. I Really hope your could survive the Hit if GW loses..
I'm done on this one... Knock yourself with your "Rebutle". You could ask more silly Pointed Questions and get the "Last Word".
Elvis Has Left the Building!