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A couple people have asked Gothamist if we knew what were those things flying in the Tribute in Light lights on this past September 11. Gothamist was pretty close - Chambers Street and Greenwich - but we couldn't figure out if they were birds or some sort of large debris - they seemed to swirl in and out, sort of in a pattern, but maybe not. Some people have wondered if they were bugs, but we felt that they would have to be bugs the size of cats. Luckily, Keith at Overshadowed has a photograph that seems to confirm the elements not avian but something like long strips of paper fluttering; updated: Keith points out his photo was a long exposure shot and says this one from Tozzer is more accurate...good to know, but again, not birds...we don't think.
Now the question is were these put there deliberately?
The city's photos of the Tribute in Light.
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Jen, the shot you linked to was a long exposure shot, and not quite correctly represent how the mystery flakes look.
However Adam at tozzer.net did managed to capture this correctly. The picture here.
http://www.tozzer.net/mt/archives/000025.html
I won't front and will admit I've been to Atlantic City a few times. The trump Taj Mahal (trump I did not capitalize purposely), has big spotlights sort of similar to the ones you're talking about. There is also the same "debris" floating around in these beams of light. I thought it was either birds (bats or what have you) or bugs?
some of my friends went over there earlier in the week and claim that those are bugs, ie.. moths and such. lots of em.
Here's a report that says the mystery objects were indeed birds: "this year's Tribute in Light display coincided with a big migrant flight".
Wrote my sister: "We stood right at the base and stared up into the moths. Each beam is created by a grid of lights. Each smaller beam is full of shining moths twirling madly. All of this is reflected in the windows of the buildings surrounding the lights. Near the base of each smaller beam, the moths spiral down and hurl themselves against the bulbs. When the moths hit, smoke rises up and fills the beam."
Here's a report that says the mystery objects were indeed birds: "this year's Tribute in Light display coincided with a big migrant flight".
Moths. Lots of moths. Butterflies and moths belong to the order of Lepidoptera. This name means "scale-wing" in Latin and refers to the scale cell structures found on the wings. These scales are very fine and delicate. Anybody who has ever handled a moth has noticed how easily its wing scales come
loose. When you rub them between your fingers they look like specks of dust. This is the "smoke" you saw, rising on the convection currents of warm air rising off the bulbs.
Keith rules BTW.
Moths. Saw them up close.
I know that the Audubon Society had been worried about birds flying into the light when Tribute was up for longer. I think the real issue was whether birds would tire and collapse.
So, these might be bugs? Or birds? Or debris? What is it?
Paper?!
Walking down to the light source, on the bottom, most were large moths. It smelled a lot like a bug zapper since those lights are like lasers and the moths were drawn to them.
Up top, I noticed MANY MANY small birds. The bird poop confirmed. So did the confused birds leaving the area and almost flying into buildings.
I bet the birds were chowing down. Like a giant bug buffet.
i live near 6th and grand, i took one photo on the way to dinner around 745pm where these white things do not appear--or there were so few. when i drunkenly returned, i took another with lots and lots of white things around 1am. now from where bugs THAT BIG appear so far away i dont know.
I have a really hard time believing that those were birds. We were at the base of the light for a few hours, and they just don't look like birds. Moths yes, birds, I doubt it.
Those were totally birds. I was about as close as one can get at one point.
OK. Birds they are. I shot those pictures from 2am to 4am, at that time they could have looked like anything...
We could see the debris from the promenade in Brooklyn, and things definitely seemed to be floating rather than flying around... strange in any case.
no way were those birds. They were moths. Birds are not that stupid, moths are.
no way were those birds. They were moths. Birds are not that stupid, moths are.
one of the original problems with the twin towers was that their bright lights attracted birds resulting in large numbers of bird strikes and literally 1000's of casualties. The fact is that migrating birds are attracted to the lights and Manhattan is right in their migration corridor. So they definitely could have been birds but I pray they weren't as migration is in full swing. Was anyone there in the am when the lights were turned off? If so, did you see any dead, dazed or injured birds?
one of the original problems with the twin towers was that their bright lights attracted birds resulting in large numbers of bird strikes and literally 1000's of casualties. The fact is that migrating birds are attracted to the lights and Manhattan is right in their migration corridor. So they definitely could have been birds but I pray they weren't as migration is in full swing. Was anyone there in the am when the lights were turned off? If so, did you see any dead, dazed or injured birds?
one of the original problems with the twin towers was that their bright lights attracted birds resulting in large numbers of bird strikes and literally 1000's of casualties. The fact is that migrating birds are attracted to the lights and Manhattan is right in their migration corridor. So they definitely could have been birds but I pray they weren't as migration is in full swing. Was anyone there in the am when the lights were turned off? If so, did you see any dead, dazed or injured birds?
While it looked like it was the same set of birds swirling around for hours at a time, the fact is individual birds came and went. It looked to me to be made up of mostly pigeons and seagulls. While they may migrate, they always seem to be around the city and it shouldn't be too much of a surprise to see them flying around in the lights.
unfortunately what the city doesnt understand is that millions of rare and endangered species flyover and occasionally stop in ny on their migration routes. this can be seen in central park, jamaica bay, jones beach, prospect park, inwood park and the gateway system(its original purpose btw). the bright lights attract these birds and result in bird stikes on bldgs and also loss of precious energy descending altitude. this "tribute in light" like most of the 9-11 related memorials are long on symbolism but short on practical applications and real word solutions. if this is a sing of things to come, the "freedom tower" is going to be a wreck. bad karma to commemorate people's lives by constructing a death machine.
a death machine?
if it continues the forward progression of man and technology, so what if we take a few birds out now and then?
I watched from east 3rd street with several friends, one of whom knows the creator of the tower of light, Julian La Verdiere. My friend called the artist because we could see the moving spots clearly from our roof. He said they were moths being eaten by bats and small birds and then also larger birds of prey were eating the birds and bats.
food for thought... http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/04/0417_030417_tvlightpollution.html
I actually was down there. They were insects and the majority were moths. I guess the how the light reflected off of them made them seem bigger than they were
"bad karma to commemorate people's lives by constructing a death machine."
Death Machine? I like that...
I bet they are bats (or possibly birds I guess). In Vegas, the Luxor hotel/casino has a giant spotlight on the top, and during a helicopter flight over the strip, the pilot told me and my friends that the flashes we might see in the beam are bats. Light attracts insects, insects attract bats, etc. The Luxor light is the brightest light of its kind from what the pilot told us, with some hearsay about how astronauts from the ISS can see it from space. I bet these lights probably trump Luxor's, but the bat/bird phenomenon is similar.
Oh, and streaks? Long exposures during night-time make what the eye would see as a spot seem like a streak in the photo.
They were absolutely MOTHS... I live two blocks away and with my binoculars you can see them fluttering in them. What is really amazing is how high up they all are.
those are birds, dude
those are birds, dude
MOTHS. Around 1am 9/12 I laid down on the ground between the two light "towers" and stared into infinity for a while. The moths werent really that huge, it's more the lights (Space Cannons) were so bright that any reflection (refraction?) of the light was intense.
To me it looked like the souls of the people who were murdered. Which leads me right back to the topic of hating our president.
Definitely moths. I was right beside them (went to a movie theater beside the parking lot that housed the lights). From there, you are literally 20 feet from the source of the lights. The moths were flying in and out of the lights and when the light hit them, it was quite an extraordinary burst of light. Highly reflective? Up in smoke? Spirits of the WTC dead? Who knows. But there were thousands of moths. I'm sure there were a few birds feasting on easy prey, but for the most part the fairy dust swirling around were moths. Now get over this stupid debate.