Shooting In Chelsea Subway

Just a couple of things: Just because the victim was from Brooklyn does not mean that this was "a hit from Brooklyn."

And how is it a "hit"? It may have been, but that's hard to deduce from the fairly vague articles.

And when "criminals, junkies, and sociopaths" stick to their own neighborhoods, innocent people in those neighborhoods still get killed or injured, which seems no different than innocent people in Chelsea (which, I'm guessing, has no "criminals, junkies, or sociopaths). If someone in Brooklyn is killed as a result of this stuff, it's no different than if someone in any Manhattan neighborhood is killed. It's not like people in other neighborhoods deserve to be killed or injured because they live in the same neighborhood as a criminal.

Plus, Brooklyn is not a neighborhood. Or are you referring to the "other" Brooklyn? Would it be any different if these guys were from Park Slope or Brooklyn Heights? Would it have been better if they carried out the crime in their own (presumably bad) neighborhood and someone innocent -from- that neighborhood was injured as a result?

Drew

Thanks for the great comment, Drew!
Brian Van, are you one of those Manhattan centric snobs? You know--the type who thinks that because he pays retarded exorbitant rent in Manhattan, that it is "better" than Brooklyn? Your comments about this coming from "another borough" are moronic. Yes the shooting happened at a subway stop in Chelsea, where along with the yuppies in ugly ass new high rises ----there are, whoa, housing projects that have been there for 35 years....

Back to the real topic. Where are the transit cops?

Why can't there be more roving patrols of transit cops on trains? I remember during the crack days in the late '80s early 90's seeing many more cops walking through trains.

I feel as if I'm being misinterpreted. This is not about class, this is not about snobbery. This is about population density and violent crime among crowds.

I'm not a Manhattan snob (believe me I'm far from it), but I do ride subways through Manhattan and I don't live in a blighted area. I make it a point to stay away from dangerous places. I can't stay off the subway; I can't stay out of Midtown. Neither can millions of other non-violent people.

To be clear: this type of crime is not acceptable ANYWHERE. It's not a perfect world and it does happen. It is particularly dangerous to others, though, when these things are done on crowded streets or in enclosed areas (like subway platforms) packed with people. Not all of Midtown/Chelsea is all that glamorous (there are million dollar condos a few blocks from the projects), but there's so many more people around then there are in the dangerous areas in the outer boroughs. It's literally packed there.

At least innocent people know not to go walking through the bad neighborhoods at the wrong times of day, and at least the streets there are not packed with people like they are in Midtown. (it shouldn't happen anyway, it's just that fewer bystanders are at risk traditionally) However, most of us simply can't avoid taking the 1/9, the A/C/E, or the N/Q/R/W; most of us have to take the occasional trip through Times Square or down Sixth Ave.

I get the feeling that whatever unjust cause motivated these killings did NOT occur at these spots with these recent crimes. These thugs, by carrying out their violent acts in areas where it's the most dangerous for EVERYONE (rich or poor), are creating a situation that's potentially tragic and deadly for each of us. It's all that more senseless when the motive is completely irrelevant to the scene of the crime.

If they want to shoot up each other and live by the way of the gun, they should at the very least avoid places where they'll hurt someone else. That applies to all the boroughs.

And the transit cops? Perhaps that's a good question, but I'd say that they typically do a good job and it's unfortunate the suspects got away this time.

People do stupid sh*t like this when they think they won't get caught. If the shooters thought that there was a decent chance that there'd be transit cops hanging out at the station, they'd think twice about pulling out a gun aboard the train.

I hate to say this, but we need more cops on the trains or in the station, and we need a way to get a message to them. Right now, if there's something going down on a car which doesn't have an MTA employee on it (i.e. 80% of the train), they'll never know something is wrong. And even if they did know, getting the message to the transit cops is a crap shoot. The train "conductor" can barely communicate with their dispatchers, never mind the MTA police (as a police scanner listener, trust me on that).

Well, nowhere is completely safe. It's just that I can't imagine a more dangerous place for bystanders to be in a gunfight than a subway station around Midtown.

It's more dangerous because there's nowhere to go - a violent crime could start a stampede. You have to think, in the crowded parts of town, the possibility is much greater to actually strike someone with a stray bullet and kill them, or to run into transit police and have a shootout in public. It's also more likely for the perpetrators to be captured or killed (like the guy on the 1/9 at Chambers Street).

That said, it's not acceptable to have a shootout in any residential neighborhood, or any part of the subway. But usually the criminals don't go very far from where they live, which helps most innocent people stay out of harm's way. Murders are disturbing and unacceptable, but this idea of having gunfights anywhere in town, even where it's most dangerous to bystanders, is particularly scary.

And it's even more strange because crime is down overall. Perhaps there's too many cops back in the old neighborhood mopping up the crime, so they escape to Midtown where they think they won't be seen.

I didn't want to dig up old bones, but I see where this is going.

Never once did I say "crime should stick to poor neighborhoods" or "people of X-race shouldn't be shooting each other around people of Y-race". Note that race was never even brought up, and I have no idea of the ethnic backgrounds of the perpetrators or victim. I see that you're 100% sure that I was thinking something racist or classist.

My posts are disgusting because of classism that you interpreted - and racism, which came out of nowhere. On that note, you must be pro-violence, since you seem to think it's wrong for me to single out particular class groups for violent crimes, and you don't seem to agree that violence against innocents is wrong. It should happen to everyone, right?

I'll throw you a bone here. There shouldn't be violent crime on the subway, it's too dangerous for bystanders. And I apologize in advance for implying that violent crime should happen to people who are too poor to ride the subway, or to people who walk or ride the bus. K?