Quantcast

The Dangers of Leaning on a Subway Pole

2004_06_subwaypole.jpgGothamist has long wondered about subway train car etiquette - we do give up seats for the elderly, disabled, pregnant, or enchilded; we do move into the subway car when it's crowded - but we've never gotten into fights about it with people, just shot them dirty looks when they bock the train doors or refuse to move their bags from the otherwise empty seats. The Village Voice reveals that an argument between a 23 year-old woman who was leaning against a subway pole on a B train and a supervising Kings County DA over the pole led to the woman's arrest and 30 hours in lock-up! Eleanor Black and Aaron Nottage (5'2" and 5'9" respectively) argued over the pole (Nottage felt Black was hogging the pole and told her not to take up so much room; Black retorted that Nottage should not take up so much room by going on a diet), then got into a fight outside after Nottage took her bag off the train with him (Black told the Voice "I started hitting him on the arm. I grabbed his dreadlocks. I mean, I'm a girl, that's how girls fight."), then the police came... Read the Voice story for details on how Nottage threw his (figurative) weight around to make Black go through the system and how some cops felt very badly for what happened ("My heart went out to her; so did everyone's in the precinct. This guy [Nottage] was about twice her size."). Black is now out on $1,000 bail and has a hearing today. This is just a crazy, crazy story. It's a good lesson about not getting into fights on the train. And Gothamist was worried about the photo ban!

Black says she was leaning against the pole after giving up her seat to an old Chinese lady. Gothamist admits that we've leaned on poles - who hasn't - but usually during times when the train is fairly empty. We tend not to lean when there's the possibility that people would rather grab the pole, since Gothamist isn't fond of holding onto the pole when people are leaning on them...what's your subway pole policy?

Contact the author of this article or email tips@gothamist.com with further questions, comments or tips.

Comments [rss]

  • iralarry

    Hell, this is three yrs old.

  • iralarry

    WOW. So much to do over the subway incident. Some nerve huh?

    rotomonkey: I love to give the heavy shoulder to those who get on before we get off. I mean, I lean into it, try to cause discomfort. Can't wait to drop someone’s items-even better. Would love it if one of those A$$hole$ came after me, not that I really want that.

    She is an idiot for not simply relinquishing some room on the pole. He is an idiot for the way he likely verbalized his need for pole room.

    He is an arrogant schmuck for removing her personal items off the subay as a means to get her to follow him. She is stupider than piss for hitting him and pulling her hair.

    Neither one should spend a second in lock-up but his conduct should be prosecuted for asserting his position as a member of the DA's office to get a personal vendetta satisfied. That is a strong-arm tactic worthy of some higher pols in public office doing the same for personal gain. The whole thing should be a wash and a lesson on human relations in crowded situations. COOL HEADS PREVAIL. If this guy from the DA weren't so damn conceited, he easily could have managed to talk her into giving up some space to hold the poll. He could have applied public pressure from other nearby passengers to get into the act and publicly admonish her right there and then. This is a pathetic example of people behaving badly and speaks to our inadequacy for simple communication.

  • franco

    why does anyone here believe what they read in the Village Voice? That was clearly an article written with a slant, and fed to the voice by the Defendant's Legal Aid Attorney. It is only one side to the story, and to make judgements based on a one-sided account is just foolish. What if you were to find out that this woman is a convicted felon? would that change anyone's opinion? what if this woman has prior subway related offenses? these are questions you punks do not have the answers to, but i bet won't like the answers when they come out. There wa sno felony charged here, just an assauly in the 3rd degree, which is justified by her hitting him. end of story. and to disparage the credibility of someone who dedicates everyday of their life to putting trash in jail, just based on a clearly biased, legal aid filed article, is just plain unfair. by the way, a judge decided that bail was in order in this case, and that is rare if nothing happened. get a grip folks!

  • gg

    i don't know about racism, but there are subway style stereotypes for all ethnic, age, gender groups. we've already heard the old chinese lady, neurotic middle aged white women, fat people, and spread legged men on this comment board. i like the wall street type guys with newspapers who always blocks the door. who else is there? threatening high school kid mob monopolizing a section of car, maybe?

  • gg

    i don't know about racism, but there are subway style stereotypes for all ethnic, age, gender groups. we've already heard the old chinese lady, neurotic middle aged white women, fat people, and spread legged men on this comment board. i like the wall street type guys with newspapers who always blocks the door. who else is there? threatening high school kid mob monopolizing who section of car, maybe?

  • e.

    don't even try pulling the racism card. Bullshit all over that.

  • fromT.O.

    I got this article emailed to me and I had to search for more on this, hence here I am thanks to google.

    I was appalled at the use and abuse of power from this ADA who thinks that "okay, she pissed me off and I will make her life a living hell". At what point do these two stop being a child and whine and pout and throw a tantrum? Whatever happen to just walking away? Or saying 'excuse me'? I'm not condoning her behaviour but whatever happened to chivalry? Doesn't exist on the New York subway system, I gather.

    I say, especially since he sounds like a brother (the dreadlocks), he is lucky that it wasn't me he encountered with. Court officer or not, he would be left with some dreadlocks in my hand.

  • BettyBoop

    Wow! I can't believe how many of you people are blaming this poor girl! Is this Aaron Nottage guy having his friends post here?

    She was bullied by a large racist fuckhead, which happens to us short white women EVERY DAY!

    First of all, it's unclear whether she was even "hogging the pole". The article indicates that she had JUST given up her seat and had wrapped one arm around it temporary to stabilize herself so she could pull a notebook out of her bag. It's not like she was standing there for hours blocking the pole.

    If this guy was 5'9", he didn't even NEED the pole. He can reach those bars on the ceiling that us short people can't reach. So now I guess it's a crime to be short, white and female.

    And where's the outrage about the fact that this fucker GRABBED HER BAG and ran off the subway with it? Last time I checked, that was a much more serious crime than holding onto a damn pole!

    I hope this Nottage racist piece of shit loses his job.

    I hope this bastard loses his job.

  • me

    Mmm, witness schmitness! Sure let's assume they NEVER lie!

    I say these two deserve each other. Let 'em duke it out - but hairpulling and eyeball-scratching only.

  • golly

    This is classic. I love all these posts about how she was a rude fucker and "it's your birthday, ADA Nottage." May all of you enjoy the pleasures of Central Booking, holding cells, and waiting months to get your bail money returned the next time you get tipsy at your local watering hole and happen to get in a heated discussion with an ADA similarly disposed to this kind of power trip.

    I'll be the first one to admit the Voice has a knack for its brand of um, "public service journalism," but the point is that this guy seems to think his DA badge compensates for a lack of something else--perhaps a lack of appendage length, perhaps a lack of courtroom skills. My guess, and it may be an educated one, being that I deal with DA's for a living (from the other side of the courtroom, natch), is a little of both.

    Everyone's so hot over the fact that, "ooh, he's got two witnesses!" Yeah, of course he does! Here's a guy who used his position to get some girl arrested for pole-hogging and went up the ladder, intimidating police brass into making sure she did get put through the system--you think he got his witnesses from being such a nice guy? Let's just say I wouldn't be shocked if his so-called witnesses were obtained via the same methods.

  • LeRae

    Last time I checked, grabbing someone's bag and taking it with you is theft and considered a mugging!!! He is lucky ALL she did was pull his hair.

  • j.

    Yeah, ok, whatever, she might have been close to the pole. But, c'mon -- the arrest!?!?! The cops who followed through should be ashamed for themselves for being bullied by the guy.

    All I can say is that if she can find a witness or two, she's probably got a decent Section 1983 suit on her hands.

    Freaking Charles Hynes's office for defending this guy. He should be out on his fat ass.

  • Beevis

    Does anyone here want to hog my pole? hehehehehhehehehehhheeeehehehhhehehehe



    :^0

  • Perhaps she was able to gather no witnesses because, oh...she was arrested on the spot and taken to jail for thirty hours. And the article does not say that the witnesses contradict the big points in her story -- that he (a) escalated the confrontation by grabbing her bag and pulling her off the train, and (b) obscenely abused his authority by having the book thrown at her. Thirty hours is totally disproportionate to whatever happened if it was short of a violent physical assault.

    Some of you people make me sick. Rude and inconsiderate behavior pisses me off too, but this kind of offense is why tickets were invented -- we don't have the resources to allow "officers of the court" to have people arrested at whim.

  • david

    Not a single person blaming the MTA. For shame, people, taking it out on your fellow new yorkers! maybe if they ran more trains during rush hour, we wouldn't have so much overcrowding on the trains, nor straphanger tension. Sometimes the N doesn't come for 10+ minutes, and this is during rush hour! And who ever really believes "there's another train right behind this one"????

  • Richie

    Even though there was a weight and height deferential, Ms. Black received her due Justice for her rude behavior. I think you have to have extreme self restraint and be at your most socialized when riding the subway. You must immerse your self in these qualities before leaving your home. Definitely bring a book or listen to music and get into an air conditioned car. Even though it’s the cities most efficient transport it is at the same time the worst.

    Please, women with strollers, wait until after rush hour. Are you taking your child to the office to help you file? Bike messengers should be thrown off immediately, preferably in the tunnel. Old Chinese ladies need to take access-a-ride. I am sure there is a Cantonese version. And, for all recent immigrants, please invest in deodorant. It’s part of being patriotic.

  • z.m

    I guess it's a good thing you're not in charge, huh?

    How many times does times do people need to say this for it to stick:

    two witnesses versus none.

    It doesn't seem like he used his influence to get her extra punishment--it seems like she got what so many deserve and so few ever get.

  • Sterling

    Brendan's correct. Ben - "in theory" it's wrong to take someone's bag? Nottage isn't the Lone Rasta Ranger - it's not his job to go out correcting the subway etiquette violations of other people.

    It sounds to me like he made a fuss on the train, the girl ignored him, he stole her bag or arguably kidnapped her (depending on whether she was wearing the backpack when he pulled it off the train), and then called the police and used his position to have HER arrested. It's a shame she didn't have the presence of mind to counter-charge him at the scene with assault and theft, so maybe his fat ass could have spent some time in a cell, too.

    Hopefully she'll bring him up on misconduct charges, at the very least. I'm sure his boss has chewed him out already.

    And if I was a judge and some 37-year-old guy came in wearing dreadlocks, and announced himself as the prosecutor, I'd remand him to the barbershop around the corner: "No haircut, no crime."

  • sam

    Another thing - they keep describing this guy as a "big guy". I haven't seen any pictures of him, but 5'9" isn't exactly giant-sized.

    I do agree that he probably went too far when he grabbed her bag off of the train, two wrongs don't make a right, yada yada yada, but it was probably a better option to get her off the train (his obvious intent) than grabbing her by the arm and dragging her.

    And her reasoning that she was leaning against the pole because she had given her seat up to an old lady? Giving your seat up to Person A doesn't entitle you to be an asshole to everyone else on the train.

  • e.

    I understand the height issue, which obviously makes reaching the upper bars problematic, but physics would dictate that she need not press her ENTIRE body against the pole in order to stay balanced. A one-handed grip seems sufficient, two if the train is extra shaky.

    Why hasn't anyone else mentioned that Aaron brings two witnesses willing to testify to the table, and no one (aside from the Village Voice) has come forward to back up her story?

blog comments powered by Disqus

send a tip

tips@gothamist.com