Gothamist: Digging a Hole for the Second Avenue Subway

joe s

Thu, 22 Apr 2004 12:39:16 -0500

I don't get it. The NY Mag article says MTA has $1B, a quarter of the money needed to build the stubway (96th - 63rd). The entire line is projected to cost $17B. Where does the MTA come up with the extra $16B? The state and federal governments have said nice things but haven't put up the money. What am I missing?

Andrew

Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:39:24 -0500

Does anyone know why the new 2nd Ave. line will have atypical +10 block distances between numerous stops? To keep the cost down. Unlike all the other north-south lines in Manhattan, the second ave. line will not have local and express tracks. It will only have one track in each direction. So the stations will be spaced closer together than typical express stations, but further apart than typical local stations. The SAS will be built using deep tunneling (like the Moscow metro and many of London's Underground lines). Unlike the cut and cover method used for the other subway lines, where marginal cost per station is relatively low, the marginal cost of adding another station 5 stories down is much higher.

Jammypup

Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:55:19 -0500

BTW, typical subway lines are only a few feet below street level which explains why you can feel the trains on the street. This line will not be built with the cut and cover method but with deep boring so will need to be deep enough to avoid utilities etc. I doubt you will be able to feel actual tunneling but will obviously feel the initial drilling of the vertical shafts.

Jammypup

Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:53:03 -0500

Jake, prices for apts on UES east of 3rd ave have always been lower than those west. Also UES studio and 1BR prices are much lower than on UWS at the moment. Maybe the market is doubtful this will ever be finished. In which case a contrarian view, even with info that is already public, may win out in the end. Jen,who says prices will go down when rates go up? Rates going up usually signal a recovery and recovery usuually takes RE along with it. Granted RE prices are crazy and have gone up anyway. I don't think anyone can predict. Mase, RE for stations is scarce and expensive. Some buildings, stores, businesses etc will have to be shuttered for the proposed stattions. I doubt they could close any more.

larry dvm

Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:47:16 -0500

I like the project schedule on the MTA's site. It shows start dates with arrows pointing perpetually into the future. What are they trying to tell us?

Mase

Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:14:22 -0500

Does anyone know why the new 2nd Ave. line will have atypical +10 block distances between numerous stops? e.g.: Houston to 14 = 14 blocks 42 to 57 = 15 blocks 57 to 72 = 15 blocks 72 to 86 = 14 blocks Obviously, the more stations makes it cost more, but I haven't been able to find any justification, monetary or otherwise, in reading about the new line.

Jen

Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:56:29 -0500

The issue now is that the NYC real estate market is grossly overvalued, with or without the subway scheme. With interest rates looking to be upped, the market will go down and buyers could make their move. Anyway, I'm still keen on my plan for a lean-to village in a yet-to-be-named park.

jake

Thu, 22 Apr 2004 08:25:02 -0500

the bschool evaluation of jen's scheme: if the real estate market is efficient, prices in the neighborhoods along the new 2nd ave route have already adjusted to reflect both the increase in value associated with the subway, and the risk associated with the line not being built. so there's no way to use that public information to make any money.