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This morning a large group of people protested outside the offices of Details at the Fairchild Building. Gothamist was there in spirit- unfortunately, we were also on a plane to London. Luckily, F.O.G. (that's friend-of-Gothamist, not another anti-Asian slur) Matte Chi was on hand, and snapped some great protest pictures. More on the protest from yesterday.
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get over it already... it was in poor taste and ignorant if anything, not hateful.
Does anyone have a sense of humor anymore? I thought this was funny. But, even funnier, protestors protesting Details Magazine. Now that, my friends, is high comedy!
It had more to do with the Nice Weather. BEAUTIFUL day to go out and Protest. Hell, even though I'm black, I'd go out and join them myself! Power to them
Hi,
I was curious to know if you heard personal responses from the Details staff. I heard that Whitney Mcnally was once reached on the phone and retorted that she was not sorry and that she'd do it again.
I find this hard to believe. But then, she did write the article.
I don't get it. What was this protest regarding? Is Details a magazine? Not all of us know every last current event...
And..... I'm a dork. I didn't see the "yesterday" link.
to all the people who think these people should shut up: no, you shut up. the same goddam right that gives that p.o.s. rag details the right to publish semi-racist shite gives these people the right to wave around their placards. clearly there's something wrong with that article if people were willing to sacrifice quality time to spend time in midtown. p.c. panty-twisting or not, there are definite historical reasons behind the negative reaction, and these people have a right to consciousness-raise, especially for the people who side with details. maybe these protestors need to get a goddam sense of humor, maybe details and all you people blinded by privilege need to get a fucking clue.
just because a magazine has a first amendment right to publish bull@#$%, doesn't mean people shouldn't take the streets to object when it happens! god, i hate that tired "don't protest" argument!
What's most shocking to me about this is that the piece presumably managed to get past a large number of editors and designers, none of whom found anything amiss about it, or worse, none of whom felt they had the power to complain. Which suggests to me that there are no gays, Asians, or (as the article would have us ignore the existence of) GAY ASIANS on staff and/or in positions of power. This seems amazingly out of step with the times for a New York fashion magazine, to say the least.
Just curious here. What does the gay community think about the fact that the Asian community feels that that being "gay" is conisdered such a horrible crime? What's so bad about being gay that you need to protest? I guess we need to ask the gays how they feel about being called Asian.
Here are my photos from the protest:
http://public.fotki.com/MANOaMANO/details_magazine/
It's a gross simplification to say that the protest is about the "asian community" considering being queer a crime, rather than the exploitation of stereotypes about the hyperfeminized orient--stereotypes that exist in the queer community too I might add... Imagine a spread like "Cheap or Jewish" or "Criminal or Black".
before you start crucifying whitney, she's just some blonde low level staff hack there excited that she gets to write this regular, asinine feature for the magazine at all instead of just getting her boss coffee and iming with her prep school buddies all day. a friend of mine who works there says this piece was assiged to her by the editor who invented this recurring column. she's an idiot, but her editor (and ultimately dan peres, the checked-out editor in chief, who, let's not forget, published an article "by" the former editor of spy and new york mag, kurt andersen, which he didn't write) is at fault. and isn't details up for, like, some national mag awards?
I thought Whitney McNally was an intern, like an NYU student or something from someplace in the country that doesn't have gays OR Asians. -F
I like how the previous post before this promotes Chris Rock's comedy special. Which I agree should be great and I'll watch like all his other material... though my point being that most of his material usually is not that different than the offending article that compares gays and asians. It's usually offensive toward one particuliar group or person, but in the context of comedy, no harm is done to those with senses of humor...
Then this post promotes protests and hatred toward Details and it's staff, in what was obviously intending to be humorous feature that missed it's mark... You can not tell me that you honestly think that Details was not attempting to be funny here... Take the magazine for what it is. Details is like a rack above Maxim and it's ilk on the magazine food chain. So put it in it's context as attempted comedy, and move on. No harm is done to those with senses of humor.
Here's the deal. Gothamist is very arbitrary in the way it defends or hypes things. Anyone reading it on any particular day can see that. In this case the main reason Gothamist is so upset is because Jen is Asian. If there were another ethnic group being harassed guess what? Gothamist would not care.
When all is said an done Gothamist is a smidge more professional than a personal website. But the fact they keep this stiff appearance leads to people taking them more seriously than they ever should. Gothamist's opinions are not on par with even the weakest of alt-weeklies in this town. Even compared to the NY Press.
i'm always surprised by the jewish/asian conspiracy comments on these posts. it's simply not true- jen would be covering the story if the story was about blacks, jews, hispanics, arabs, etc. she's really quite fair and openminded that way.
"i'm always surprised by the jewish/asian conspiracy comments on these posts. it's simply not true- jen would be covering the story if the story was about blacks, jews, hispanics, arabs, etc. she's really quite fair and openminded that way"
The reality is that there is no proof to backup your statement. Point to one time Jen has ever talked about a race/bias issue that was not focused on Asians.
um... speaking as a bi Asian,this is dumb.
Whitney McNally also wrote "gay or..." articles for details for
jesus, democratic frontrunners, brits, magicians and preppies. put in that context, the offending article is more amusing
i'm also british and democratic, but not a messiah, conjurer, or a preppy
i think whitney mcnally is an asian spy (kinda like tokyo rose) who wrote the article to get the asian community in an uproar. oh yeah and i bet she's friends with jen chung. because she's asian. this is all a conspiracy to make the asian community appear like it has any political voice! silly asians! they don't have any rights!
hell hath no fury like an asian scorned! I am Mexican and do you know how much shit we get?! It seems like there is some self hating going on in the asian community for all this raucous. Who cares what some stupid magazine says about what you may or may not be about - if you wear dior sunglasses and eat shrimp balls with chopsticks then more power to you because dior makes decent sunglasses and most people wish they could pick up two chopsticks at once. It was an inappropriate joke but those are the best kind! No one got hurt. I have to go - my tacos are ready. BUENO!
hell hath no fury like an asian scorned! I am Mexican and do you know how much shit we get?! It seems like there is some self hating going on in the asian community for all this raucous. Who cares what some stupid magazine says about what you may or may not be about - if you wear dior sunglasses and eat shrimp balls with chopsticks then more power to you because dior makes decent sunglasses and most people wish they could pick up two chopsticks at once. It was an inappropriate joke but those are the best kind! No one got hurt. I have to go - my tacos are ready. BUENO!
I know whitney mcnally,
she is truly a first class c**t!
Just put Black or Latin in any of the sentences...
see if it's funny. If it is, then you are the spawn of
Jesse Helms.I found the article hateful..it
starts from somewhere, before it gets out of control.
Peops who agree with the article probably hate
as much as the author. Some things are not funny,
if you thought it was, you need to develop a sense
of humor above that of a 5 yr old hick.
As a Greek, I would like to confirm that all of the following sterotypes about my people are true:
1. Greek men have sex with sheep and goats.
2. Greek men have anal sex with other men, especially young boys.
3. Greek men are all boorish, sexist pigs with no regard for the rights of women.
4. Greek men are all lazy.
5. Greek women all love to cook and clean.
6. Greek women are all loud, charismatic matronly types who run their households with an iron grip.
7. Greeks haven't contributed anything to civilization in over 2000 years.
8. Greeks have funny accents.
9. Greeks are hairy and smelly.
Perhaps I should add another one here:
10. Greeks can take a fucking joke.
Simon, Lost in Translation is out on DVD in Japan and very popular. The movie is very well known in Japan and compared to the hyper sensitive expatriate Asians who see it as somewhat "racist", real Japanese see it as very good and very positive.
Regarding movies being released after the fact in Japan, it's not uncommon for that to happen. In fact it's very common. The movie gets released in the U.S. and then months-to-a-year later it gets released overseas in non-English speaking countries.
I am all for people fighting for racial equity, but in the case of the people complaining about Details magazine and even Lost In Translation, one must call that stuff for what it is. Simply over-reaction to a situtation based on not much at all. Get over it and move on. And get a sense of humor.
"I'm not making this stuff up. Simply adding a little fuel to the fire, to show how stupid this whole thread is to begin with."
Because you are bringing up an unrelated issue to a comment thread on another topic and fueling the flames of Asian prejudice conspiracy theories. That's why. And your statement of "Japanese decorum on culturally sensitive matters precludes angry protest or high-volume misgivings" is really one of the most anti-Asian things I have ever read. So because the Japanese people are not up in arms and crying like babies that means they are engaging in behavior based on decorum and repressing their "real" feelings? Who are you to be so perceptive and clairvoyant about issues you know little about.
Hand it to an American "I want to help people!" person to not only attempt to "help" people but to dare speak towards how others feel. As a friend of mine in Japan said about the whole "Lost in Translation" controversy:
Gatagata itten-ja neyo!
Stereotyping Asians? Like no other ethnicity is stereotyped? I understand Asians not appreciating Detail's article but I also think that The Sopranos doesn't show Italian Americans in a very nice light yet I don't go out protesting. I just don't watch it.
And Sopranos isn't a joke! It's a drama! This article was!
Racism is sickening, however I think the protesters are confusing racism with immature "Beavis and Butthead" style comedy.
Simon, did I ever call you a "dickhead" or a "crack baby". Grow up. Or at least try not to be a baby yourself.
Regarding the Christian Science Monitor, they are not the only source of opinion in Japan. The article quotes only 2 or 3 people living in Japan and the remainder of the observations are based on that of the author of the piece and nothing more.
I think you should simply get over your own issues and stop trying to find racism in cultural differences. Wanna know what? If you've ever seen Coming to America Eddie Murphy skewers American culture and African culture and nobody called it racist. And as someone else pointed out, Chris Rock and Dave Chapelle really do more perceived "harm" through their race based humor than Lost in Translation ever has. If you're going to protest Details magazine, then how about protesting Dave Chapelle and his stupid "Blackzilla" insult to asian cinema. It's about the same amoung of maliciousness, but in this case everyone's panties are in a bunch.
Just because ethnic/racial stereotyping happens, doesn't mean it's right.
Despite the editors' claim that the article was meant to challenge cultural stereotypes, the article played off of the audience's knowledge of stereotypes, not their actual knowledge of the people themselves (Gay, Asian, Gay & Asian). Indeed, there is no coverage of any of these folks anywhere else in the magazine.
Furthermore, could it be possible that this article meant more to Asian Americans than any other demographic portrayed in the other columns/on TV shows because they're never on the television screen anyway? And when they are there, they are two-dimensional unemotional characters that can fight (if you're a super Asian), deliver food (if you're a normal Asian), and be awesome in bed (if you're an Asian female).
It's true that there's mad stereotyping going on in the Sopranos. It's also true that there's probably a greater range of portrayals of Italian Americans than there are of Asian Americans (we, apparently, all come from the same continent...and are rarely referred to as Asian *Americans*....on a sidenote, i hate it when people refer to Asia and Africa as if they were countries and not continents). If people are pissed off, they should be able to execute their first amendment rigths and protest.
The LGBT community was indeed involved in the protesting; the Gay Asian and Pacific Islander Men of New York were co-sponsors of the rally with Media Watchdog. Furthermore, more than 30 students from Boston (males, females, straight, gay) went to join the protestors in NYC because the article was so blatantly disrespectful that it deserved that kind of action.
Regarding humor, we have to think about who's publishing the magazine. It's okay when *we* make fun of *ourselves.* It's not okay when a magazine that doesn't talk about minority or LGBT issues makes fun of us. People think it's fun fun funny until the stereotyping of certain populations results in discrimination in the work place and in our neighborhoods. When people refuse to understand why articles like this are a big deal and just justify everything on the basis of humor, they never take the time to think about how these articles are products and perpetuators of certain mentalities that result in the beating up of children in schools and random hate crimes.
Did anyone pay attention to the random killing of an 18 year old Chinese take out deliver boy (whose body was dumped into a garbage bag) in New York City two weeks ago? Does anyone care that every day LGBT children are continually taunted in their schools? Does anyone pay attention to the Asian Americans living next door who are trying to hold down 3 jobs so that their children can have school supplies when everyone just thinks they are annoying immigrants who are stealing all the jobs from "Americans"? Is that why people feel like they have more license to take advantage of an Asian American or gay man, because they don't deserve the respect every other citizen gets?
It was good to see all those young students at the rally. They are the ones who will eventually know the difference between humor and mockery, between bad journalism that speaks down to the people and ethical journalism that speaks for the people.
Furthermore. Not all Gays are materialist. Not all of them are effeminite (although some of them embrace their femininity, go them). Not all of them have loose writsts. Not all of them dress well to call attention to the fact that they are gay. In Queer Eye for the Straight Guy and Will & Grace, everyone thinks gay people should be identifiably "Gay". That's what columns such as "Gay or Asian" and "Gay or Jesus Christ" or "Gay or Guido" perpetuate -- this notion that all Gay people are materialistically and sexually obsessed.
Who cares if they are also lawyers, politicians, brothers, sons, church leaders, artists, church goers, activists, engineers, teachers, doctors, nurses, chefs, architects and construction workers. Who really cares if they have real human beings and are endowed with the same capacity to understand and feel as everybody else. Who cares about all these other aspects of their character. To be "Gay" is to be materialistic and unreasonably flamboyant about being so. Isn't that what this series of columns is trying to perpetuate?
Ummm... yeah... I think there are better things to spend your time PROTESTING... It was a JOKE, people?!?! If I went out and protested every god damn time someone made an anti-gay/pro-fag joke, I, well... wouldn't have time to read about all you sorry fuckers wasting your time in New York protesting a goddamn JOKE! Yeah, it's your RIGHT, but really, is it worth your time? Goddamn. Lighten up!
Wait. Am I reading this right? Are people really so selfish and short sighted?
Look, it's one thing to disagree with the stance that various Asian American organizations who protested have taken against Details. Fine. You think the Details piece is harmless satire. We think it's harmful and offensive. We can agree to disagree.
But to actually tell those of us who are insulted by the piece that we we need to "lighten up" and shouldn't express our anger and disappointment at Details?
What are you, some kind of asshole?
Uh, last I checked, the same rights that allow Details to print the "Gay or Asian" piece also applies to those of us who would like to engage in peaceful demonstration.
Look, no one is going to win in a debate about who's got a better sense of humor. We all have our personal tastes.
But I certainly support any group that feels it's been maligned and wants to be heard. If the argument is that no one got hurt by Details, then the same argument can be said about the protest. No one got hurt during the protest either. But at least one LOUD response was given to Details that there is a group of us out there who didn't appreciate their work.
Does seeing a group (200+ folks and over 30,000 signatures from all over the country) express their anger and frustration in a peaceful, but passionate manner, really piss the fuck out of you?
Lighten up?
You fucking lighten up.
If you liked the piece, then by all means, write your own letters of support and praise. But I'd ask that you actually read the piece (again) and think it through first. Maybe even actually talk to someone who found it offensive. Don't assume it's just folks being overly sensitive.
Lastly, I'd like to note that the protest was not about Asian American men being angry about being contextualized as "gay". It was about the general lack of exposure of any Asian Americans (straight or queer, man or woman) in mainstream media. And why when we do get any exposure, are two minority groups often pitted against one another? (Gays vs. Asian Americans, Asian community vs. Black community, Jews vs. Muslims etc.) Why is the assumption (in humor or not), that the two are enemies and do not co-exist?
It's a stupid piece. Is it funny? Eh, maybe. Personally, I think that humor exists within it, but the overt racism and homophobia in the language is much more damning. And that's what stays with me.
Joy and Ray, GREAT JOB!
It's been three days since Ray posted and no one from pro-Details responded. I guess we won. Great job shutting these idiots up.
Details accepted many of our demands anyway at the meeting. These pro Details people cannot ever gather 30,000 signatures in support of "Gay or Asian?" Never. If that had been a case, there would have been a counter demonstration on that day. And there wasn't. I doubt they could have.
Since when was a white girl an expert on gays OR Asians?
You must be talking about one of our co-founders, Colleen.
She has been very active in Asian media justice issue for a while. She is very well regarded in many APA communities. Plus having her at the table on our side when we face mostly stright white corporate people is actually a very good thing. I saw these people getting thrown off balance when she went after them at the meeting. It was very effective and fun to watch.
James
"um... speaking as a bi Asian,this is dumb. Whitney McNally also wrote "gay or..." articles for details for jesus, democratic frontrunners, brits, magicians and preppies. put in that context, the offending article is more amusing,"
Uh, speaking as a straight Asian dude, *you're* pretty dumb.
Jesus can't protest, nor would be because he's about agape and shit. Democratic frontrunners wouldn't because they only have so much bandwidth - republican attacks rank higher. Believe it or not, Brits HATE this sort of shit. As for magicians or preppies, they don't have any hsitory or significant discriminatory context to frame anger with.
Now if Nally McWhitney pulled the same shit on, say, blacks or the Jewish community, you wouldn't spout this "not my ox being gored, quit whining" bullshit, now would you, because you'd be scared shitless at 50 activists howling for your blood and suing your ass.
So now it's *our* turn, and we're the ones fucking "whining." Never mind that Asian dudes have been wading through country miles of this stereotypical bullshit all our fucking lives.
What we're saying is this article is based on 1) simple-minded, racist knee-jerk reaction and 2) a lack of fear or respect for Asian dudes. Oh, that, and fuck Nally McNally, you, or any motherfucker who says otherwise.
To Jellyguy, who elected you spokeperson for "your people"? No one. I'm sure there are plenty of Greeks who disagree with you, and also would be embarassed by your level of ignorance. Same to Eeeeks. Both of you are making huge generalizations--which is actually the crux of the problem here. There were huge generalizations made that are offensive and problematic. It equated all Asian men with a certain type of gay men--one that is effeminate, superficial and vain. Compounding the problem is the fact that there are very few representations of Asian men in the media already. How many times have you seen an Asian guy portrayed as sexy, cool and hip in a fashion spread, as a love interest in a mainstream film, or in a beefcake magazine? VERY RARELY, IF AT ALL.
And as for the "lighten up" comments, that's pretty hypocritical since a person who had already "lightened up" wouldn't be getting all riled up about this. Ha!
I'm like so totally committed to journalism. Journalism and double skim lattes.