February 4, 2004
Next Hot Brooklyn Area: Red Hook?
The possibility of moving commercial businesses out of the Red Hook/Gowanus Area to make way for converted apartments revives the struggle between businesses and gentrification. The businesses that helped revitalize the area may be forced to move out, in order for the Port Authority to hand over the real estate to developers who want to take advantage of the views from Red Hook. Many of those businesses suspects that the city may rezone the area for residential living, which would mean the end of those businesses and jobs. The Times notes that this "mirrors what is happening in Long Island City, Queens, and Greenpoint and Williamsburg, Brooklyn" and that businesses that may be forced are thinking of going to...New Jersey.
The Red Hook Gowanus Chamber of Commerce is opposing a variance that allows conversion of a warehouse; Chamer of Commerce administrator Phaedra Thomas says, '"It feels like Red Hook is being dismissed as the viable maritime and industrial community that it is. They've determined that its future is as a luxury waterfront community." Now, Gothamist believes in the industrial businesses and the blue collar workers, both for their downmarket je ne sais quoi and also to have sex with, but residential development means more opportunities for Manhattan sous chefs to open their own restaurants. It's not called the "most complex land-use battle in the city" for nothing. Gothamist will just idle by thinking of lame nicknames for the areas: ReHo...Gowa...ReGo...
An interesting study by the Red Hook-Gowanus Chamber of Commerce about businesses that are forced out.
Bluejake's photos of Red Hook at night and the Gowanus in winter. And we cannot forget the Gowanus seal.
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Someone get Jonathan Lethem on the line! This is exactly what happens in "The Fortress of Solitude" when Gowanus becomes "Boerum Hill"
Jen Chung, you're three years late on this one. The question is whether or not Red Hook is already passé! We looked at several apartments in the area over the last year, and they were all in buildings owned by young 20 and 30 somethings. Now some of my friends who live there are leaving because it's too expensive and there's nowhere new to live. Someday it should make spark a useful study to counteract the notion that choked growth encourages gentrification.
my favorite was when they wanted to dredge the river and turn it into commercial property a la the canals of venice. i wonder if they realize how far gone that body of water(???) is. its quite possible you can die from just stepping in there.
i'm gonna have to agree, red hook is passe. i looked at an apartment in red hook about a year ago. not only was it overpriced it was in horrible shape reminding me of the place i had in prosepct heights 6 years ago. there's something about a landlord that thinks, "i don't have to take care of this place, i'm the next big thing so i can charge whatever i want" that really puts me off. i can imagine someone new to the city thinking, "well, i guess this is what's out there" and being fooled, but i was not impressed - i don't think i can afford to live in red hook, so let's hope it's passe!
You people are being condescending. This is not about young people moving in, looking for a nice place. This is about people who have built businesses there over a long stretch of time, who have employed local residents -- and who are now getting short shrift from a group of developers who are letting property sit idle until it is rezoned for development, and who are getting screwed by the PA and the local government.
Think about what the city government does -- support big real estate developers like Ratner who want to exert eminent domain and boot people from their homes and screw over local residents . . . and is all for re-zoning Red Hook.
I find your attitudes obnoxious and insensitive. Get over your selfish, myopic perspectives. You are just a bunch of people looking for a low rent, with no sensitivity toward business owners and employees who are going to lose their jobs. Or to the local businesspeople who employ them.
Private companies cannot exert eminent domain. And governments can't exert eminent domain if the land won't be used publicly. So, a little nick in your argument.
Also, I'm not sure why business owners and employees necessarily have a better claim to a neighborhood than anyone else. Do they work harder than me? Maybe, maybe not. Do they have more money than me? Almost definitely. Of course people are looking for low rent. It's the way markets function.
The only logical conclusion to your thoughts is the socialization of rental housing. There's some eminent domain for you.
PLEASE TELL ME THE SMALL BUSINESS IN RED HOOK? Sonny's?
And Carroll Gardens WEST is NOT Red Hook.
THe bottom line is that Red Hook needs the Ikea, needs commerce other than bars and corner shops... The main issue will always be transportation. Commerce will bring more buses and other sorts of transport.
You can call Red Hook passe all you want but bottom line is that it is still very much a slum with expensive lofts here and there. and very much not going to change unless these new developers arrive.
This idea that the evil men will come in and ruin a slum is a joke... right now you've got a bunch of drop outs and hipsters with daddy's cash buying old buildings that used to rent for 700 a month charging 1200 to 1600 for a one bedroom. what did they do to the building? ussally add a cool stainless steel door or some crap like that... Empower the people who actually grew up in Red Hook with Jobs, tear down the high rise projects, replace them with real houses, and bring in retail.. yeah there will be more traffic, but people will actually be able to live there...
Larry: Yes, of course the government actually is the one exerting eminent domain, but often it does so in order to enable a private interest to come in and do what it pleases. --For example, look at the dispicable situation w/r/t Ratner's scheme to bring the Nets to Brooklyn. Eminent doman would be exerted by the government so that a certain amount of existing homeowners would be booted to give way to Ratner's stadium.
Why do the local business owners have a better claim? Because they have been the ones who have actually been putting money and sweat equity into the land -- and because they have been ones who have attempted to employ neighborhood residents. I would certainly think this gives them a more justified claim than real estate speculators who are sitting on pieces of land, currently doing nothing with them, and who plan to sell them off or build luxury apartments if/when the area is rezoned.
PD -- I don't have a problem with a business like Ikea, so long as they truly make a commitment to hiring local residents. In fact, that is my whole argument: that the area needs businesses who are willing to do, that the area needs more commerce other than corner bars, etc. What I am arguing against is just booting people out, or otherwise screwing them over in favor of real estate developers. But, please, don't try to make me feel sorry for young people who are "priced out." That, to me, is just a bunch of young people who want to live in a hip area whining.
We can talk all day about Red Hook and the nature of development in New York City. But the last thing Red Hook and South Brooklyn needs is the largest Ikea in the US. Their own estimate of 70,000 cars per week, coming through one mile of narrow one way streets is insane. The traffic overflow would swamp the BQE, Smith Street, Hamilton Avenue and 9th Street into Park Slope.
The few hundred jobs they create will not even begin to balance the hundreds of jobs which will be lost as businesses flee Red Hook and the surrounding area in the wake of that tidal wave of traffic. And yes, there are MANY businesses currently operating in Red Hook - from bus yards, to craftsmen and artisane. Ikea would slow emergency response time, slow bus service in an area totally dependant on it, and waste some of the most beautiful waterfront property left in New York City.
As a home and business owner (Hope & Anchor Diner) in Red Hook for the last few years I feel qualified to say that the only way for Red Hook to grow is through residential development. Phaedra Thomas can harp her mindless chant about maritime use. She has broguht nothing to Red Hook but grief and contention.
The truly sad part is that people like you write pieces like this without bothering to get the whole story. Speak to John McGettrick. Speak to Lou Sones. Speak to Sue Peebles. People who actually live and own in Red Hook and are not the puppets of frustrated developers. They have spent years fighting for the future of the most unique and promising neighborhood left in the city.
Until then you have not even begun to produce a piece of real reporting. This is simply one-sided, unsupported opinion.
listen...as long as people like me drill my roomates hand putting together a particle board dresser we got at ikea, you can certainly expect ikea has a 'hot business' label for at most twenty years. i mean dont you think people are going to get tired of seeing ikea furniture and losing digits? then it will be turned into artisits lofts when it goes under, and people will bitch and moan all about that too. you know im a native, but seriously, new york has not blow a little more.
Red Hook is a dump. It was a dump when my mom was born there in 1930. It was a dump when I was born there in 1952. And it will always be a dump. Anybody notice those lovely crime-ridden, drug-infested hi-rise housing projects? Can't get rid of em. Then again, some people think that getting mugged, robbed or raped are part of New York living. But hey, what am I talking about. New York's been cleaned up. No more crime.
Its just not for everyone. The interesting people of New york will always look for places that will be different and inspirational places to live. Redhook has this, it is neither just NYC Ghetto or NYC gentrified(though that maybe already happenning). It is an amazing dump. For these and reasons why I moved to WIlliamsburg 6 years ago and now look at it. Most of the words negative comments written hear could be said about Billysburg 6yrs ago. I do see it as tough on the transportation, which is real nasty in parts where you need to pass through the projects. But on the map.. it is so amazingly close to Manhattan.