First thoughts on The Matrix Reloaded

It would have been a great movie if they cut out that ridiculous orgy/rave/sex music video. I sat through it itching my ass wondering if it would ever end. Otherwise people were screaming in the theatre, there were goose bumps and a big groan at the end for having to wait... damn.

Saw it last night, and thought it was a good film overall all.

Don't read any further if you haven't seen the movie already.

(http://matrix.ugo.com/zionswitchboard/messageview.cfm?catid=39&threadid=9191)
The above is a link to spoiler information, and I found it helpful -- well, actually the entire website is pretty cool.

Ok, I think that the most important scene in the movie was the Architect and Neo talking. Pretty much I viewed this seen as "Adam" (neo) talking to "God" (the architect). I think that most people will have to watch that scene a few times to really find out what they are talking about. I was like, huh :-|? But I did find a nice website which had the entire transcript of that scene which is helpfull; still, I am somewhat confused, and can't wait for the next sequel.

The Matrix: Reloaded does raise more questions than it answers.

My take on the that Matrix series(although it may seem simple) , so far, is Neo is "The One" who will rescue the humans, but I don't beleive that neo, himself, is human. In the architect scene, the architect refers to neo as an "anamoly", which leads me to suspect that neo may have been the first computer virus in the matrix.

Also, I don't believe that the "real world" is a matrix within a within a matrix as the directors hinted at towards the end of the movie ( when neo kills sentinels in the real world); its just a way of the directors playing mind games with the audience. On the other hand, I find the title of the third installment of the film to be curious because its called Matrix : Revolutions (plural).

If people go the the site that i provided before, there are plenty of people who have better ideas than me on making sense of all the implications drawn in this sequel. One sharp eye poster on that site noticed that the Architect was also in the first movie, but I could not confirm this because I haven't seen the first movie in a while.
According to this poster, he said that when Neo was in the interrogation room, there was a shot of a room with TV monitors exactly the same as the room the architect and neo were in this film.

Jake, did you pay any attention to the movies at all?

The humans aren't being used for heat, the heat and the bioelectric energy from their bodies is being combined with a form of fusion.

The Merovingian used to be a good guy like Neo. Not powerful, not a previous "One". Persephone was making a reference to the Merovingians personality and attitude, not his status as a human in the matrix (he is human, right? where's he broadcasting from, or is he one of those nasty humans who is still in the power plant but aware of the situation)

And there is no infinite regress in regards to the matrix. There is 1 copy in operation (i think there always has been only 2 compies. the original that Smith talked about in the first film, the "perfect world", and the redesigned version that was defined on misery and suffering. I think the Architect was trying to mindfuck Neo by saying he was the 6th in a long line of "Ones", because if he could get Neo to sacrifice himself, then his creation, The Matrix, would continue to exist. But he failed. I think a machine would stoop to lying to save its offspring, don't you? I know Bill Gates would lie to save Microsoft, in fact he already has, and he's human. Humans have morals, the machines in the matrix dont.)
And as for the power that Neo gains in reality, its just an evolution of his mind. Think about it, in the matrix, he is basically god, because he can manipulate the code DIRECTLY WITH THE POWER OF HIS MIND from WITHIN the matrix, something that not even the best hackers alive can do today (computers are an interface, and he used his powers so heavily in there (fighting Seraph, fighting all those Smiths, flying faster than the computers could keep up [the buildings were rippling as he passed them, a sign that the matrix is experiencing a temporary overload]) so its not to much of a stretch to think that all that added stress pushed his mind to the next level. And it was no small feat to disable the sentinels, because he was comatose afterwards. Its right there in front of you, people. Just take it at face value!! And (A) Smith is now in Bane's body. Smiths program over-wrote Bane's "program" (his virtual body in the matrix) and seeing as Smith now has rogue status, he is like a virus both biological and technological. His personality piggy-backed Bane's carrier signal. Thast why he's cutting his hand open, being inside a human body is probably too much for him, considering what he was saying in the first film about how he hates the smell of humans, he feels infected by it. Well, imagine how he'd feel stuck INSIDE someones body.

nate-
i disagree with you that neo had a revolation of the mind and realized that he could maipulate the machines in the "real" world like he does in the "matrix"-if this is true are you saying he can stop things that arent mecanical in the real world ...like ....BULLETS?!!! i think not! the only thing that makes scense is that he is still in a matrix and that his whole world is still makebelive.

lookin foreward to someones response to that
- another question i have is if zion is destroyed....some people are tellin me its not yet but i though it was

Yeah!
So all this brings me to the real question... Who are you all going to dress as at the Matrix convention?

OK, I went to see it again today. Couple o'tings:

The Matrix is flawed. 99% of the people in it accept it, however, the other 1% are the anomaly. These anomalies must be identified and removed from the Matrix.

Zion, like all other things the machines create, is nothing more than a program being run to fulfill a purpose. The purpose of Zion is to identify the 1% that doubt the reality of the Matrix and remove them. The machines use hope ("simultaneously the source of your greatest strength and your greatest weakness") of overcoming the machines to motivate Zion to perform its function. While it is the Architect’s job to control the Matrix, it is the Oracle’s job to control Zion. Zion, however, must be kept in check. Once it reaches a certain size, it must be destroyed and recreated.

The purpose of the One is to return "to the Source and the Salvation of Zion" and recreate it, thus reinserting the Zion program. The machines select the One "based on a similar predication--a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the One". However, Neo's case was different. Instead of "[experiencing] this in a very general way" like the others, Neo's "experience is far more specific...love."

In this cycle, things are going wrong. Neo's love drives him to make the wrong decision by choosing to return to the Matrix instead of abandoning it to rebuild Zion. Also, his encounter with Agent Smith has linked them. Because Smith was not deleted, this link between Neo and the machines lingers through Smith.

I totally disagree with the concept that Zion is part of the matrix, or henceforth a "matrix within a matrix". I don't think the Wachowski bros. would make such an attempt as to befuddle the public with such an absurd concept. In reality, I propose the theory that Neo has exerted so much of his 'divine'powers in the matrix, that these powers were transpired into the 'real' world. In addition, the scene with the architect presents the factor that the when a human is born, they have a choice. 99.9% choose the matrix while .1% do not. This is where, inherently, Zion is formed by the .1% that never chose the Matrix.

Jorge--there are two types of entities we've met: humans and artificial intelligence programs. All of the flesh-and-blood people must plug into the Matrix, the rest live there, and are artificial. The artificials include the Agents, the Oracle, the Merovingian and of course the Architect.

Similarly, we are certain of two "realities"--the "real world" and the Matrix. The Matrix is a computer construct, like any simulation we have today, in Quake or the Sims for example, but infinitely more complex. On the other side, the tunnels, Zion, the fields where babies are harvested and the towers where "coppertops" are stored are all in the "real world". The Matrix exists on servers in the "real world". At the end of this movie, The Matrix Reloaded, Neo works his voodoo on a bunch of machines in the "real world", which raises the possiblity that it also is illusory, resting on top of another, third, reality layer.

Does that explain it?

in answer to chuck's questions:

1. the fact that the humans are allowed to rebuild zion suggests that the machines need the humans in some essential way- without them, they would be forced to "accept" a much less enticing level of existence. this is true whether the "real world" outside of the matrix is indeed a real world, or another level of the matrix. of course, the idea that a real world zion has been destroyed and rebuilt five times before seems pretty unlikely, because someone would surely know, and have said something. why keep that a secret?

2. the explanation for the previous zion issue is best put by neo when he says: "either no one told me, or no one knows".

Ok, here are some thoughts of mine. My head is rambling with thoughts, some from previous posts, and others from me. Comments are appreciated.
1) "The Oracle as Mother” Is the Oracle the mother? During the conversation with the Architect, "…Architect: Thus the answer was stumbled upon by another, and intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother.
Neo: The Oracle
Architect: Please, as I was saying she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99 percent of all test subjects accepted the program..." Now, the way he says, “Please, as I was saying…” makes me think that he is disagreeing with Neo's response of "The Oracle". What if he is actually referring to Persephone (Monica Belucci)? What was with that kiss? She really wanted to kiss Neo. What benefit could a program have from kissing Neo? She was looking at Trinity while kissing him. If she was the mother, she would know Trinity would die. Possibly, by kissing Neo, she implanted some new code into him that would allow him to eventually save Trinity. The purpose being...? dunno, still thinking about that one.
2) "The Multiple Matrices Theory" This thought is based upon Neo stopping the sentinels. To me, the only explanation can be that the "real world" is in fact another matrix. When he says, "Something’s different" and then is able to stop the sentinels like he does bullets, it must be that he realizes, for the first time, that he is in fact in another matrix, a parallel matrix (I don't like the term submatrix, because that denotes some type of sequence or ordering). This would also explain how Agent Smith is able to enter into Bane’s body in the supposed “real” world. And, one step farther, if 99.9% accept and 0.1% reject, then Zion is built from the 0.1%. So, now, the same percentages should apply to this matrix. 99.9% should accept the fact they are in Zion (which is another prison, just a prison that makes 0.1% happy, thinking they have choice) and 0.1% should reject. Where do these 0.1% go? Possibly, when Neo falls unconscious, he “unplugs” himself from the Matrix B, and enters another parallel Matrix….
3) “The Multiple Matrix Theory, with a Twist” Ok, bear with me on this one, but if you agree that there are multiple matrices, then maybe, the “real world” Matrix, (which I will call Matrix B) is actually a Matrix built by humans to keep the machines in a prison. If the humans have won a war years ago, and confused the machines into thinking they are still in control, by keeping the machines busy in Matrix B, that would allow the humans to remain “free” and also use the machines that they need to keep them alive. The Counselor takes a walk with Neo into the Engineering section, and looks at all the machines that are necessary to their survival. It is a dual nature type of thing; the humans cannot live without the machines. Now, this is a new thought of mine, and still working on it…..

Thought? Improvements?

I agree that the "matrix in a matrix" idea where the "real world" is another matrix is a good idea, but I don't like this idea from the point that it makes the plot not as fun and it has flaws. If the "real world" isn't real and is a matrix then is all of his interactions with Morphesus and the others fake? because if the "real world" if a matrix the same rules apply, and this means that Morphesus could be a program right? so what would the real world really be if neo does really wake up to it and make it past both false realities? Also how could neo posably know he is out of all of the posable matices? he is the one but it took him this long to realize that the "real world" is fake, how long until her realizes the real "real world" is fake too and so on? That is why i don't like this idea. Also if he is the "one" and he can read and see the lines of code when he is in the matrix why could he not see the code before in the "real world" to realize the "real world" was just another matrix? Also at the end when the sentienls attack him and he shuts them down he says he can feel them, not see them like in the matrix where he could see things (this may just be reading to much into that one line)?
Also there is two other posablities that haven't really been discused, what if this time when neo thought he woke up like all of the other times, this was the first time he had entered the matrix real world and all the other times it had been the REAL world (how this could happen I don't know, I really haven't thought of it that much)? Also the other idea that I personally like is the idea that the Oracle was telling the truth and was trying to be helpful, but the architect was lying and trying to mess with neo and screw things up for him. Remember (correct me if I am wrong) neo is not told by the Oracle that Trinity would die, just that it was already decided what would happen (right?), but the Architect DID say Trinity would die. The Oracle has not missed a beat on what would happen on any of her predictions, where as the architect was wrong because neo did save her (also remember that not everything is to be trusted because she lied to him before because it pushed him in the right direction). I know this idea doesn't explain why he could stop the machines in the "real world" butit is just the idea the I think from the point of view of a movie watcher would be a good way to do things, because who wants to see a movie where at the end it turns out that neo and everyone else is stuck in a never ending line of matices? Any thoughts/ideas against or for this are welcome, thanks!

that would really suck, but i wouldn't put it past the brothers. I don't think they would do it though because I doubt it would be recieaved very well by the audiences who pay to see the movies and upsetting all of them would result in a loss of revenue for them....

Why wasn't Tank in this movie? He was alive at the end of Matrix. Instead this put in this loser, Link.
Someone told me that the guy who played Tank is suing Warner Bros. for keeping him out of the 2 sequels. Is this true?

question for psychofox:
If it was an EMP that caused the sentinels to stop, why did it only make neo go into a coma and not trinity who was right behind him? I am not disagreeing with you that it might of have been an EMP, I quiet frankly don't know why it happened, be it the matrix in a matrix idea (i don't like that idea either). I was just wondering why would that be?

first off, i didnt get this name from seraph, its been my handle for quite some time : ). Now as how i feel about all of this, a few things, some of it im not even gonna tackle, but i do believe in the matrix within a matrix theory. If you listen to agent smith in the park he says that "you are here because you think you are free, but you are not really free" something is goin on....im not exactly sure what, but neo nor anybody else is really free. This could just be because neo has a "purpose" like the rest of the machines, and this purpose/destiny prevents him from being truley free because agent smith knows what he must do. OR this mathematical cause and effect thing is so easily predictible now that nobody is ever really free because of the choice is an illusion thing. I dont really know im definatly interested out the wazoo though. the agent smith stuff is what really baffles me, that and the sentinals at the end. but with more of the matrix within a matrix thing, i thought about it like this: just another system of control. The humans in the matrix need only accept one choice wheather to accept the matrix or reject, those that reject would be soley concentrating on freeing others and protecting themselves, unaware of a single out lying matrix. well that was about as much as i got. the agent smith stuff could practically be an entire nother movie. I will say this though, i payed really freakin close attention to the revolutions teaser, the fight between neo and smith does happen in the matrix we all know, NOT in the "real world". there is a lot to think about and too much to cover all in one post, glad i found the site though. one thing i wanna pose to you guys to see if you can figure out. the reason we all think that the matrix is here, is B.S. the whole machines using humans as a source of energy. sorry but that cant be the way it is, thermodynamics first off disallows and secondly, a race of machines so suffisticated would just build fusion devices and not interface them with humans. I dont know exactly why the machines are doing this, and they dont need to tell us, but i think as a movie they should reject the false possiblities, thats whats great about sci-fi, they could just end the movie in a whole lot of questions and mystery and it would still be great : ) who knows, talk to you guys later

ignore that last question, i should have read jen's link first, my bad...

I'd just like to say that the EMP theory is not correct. Had Niobi's ship set off an EMP, the Squiddies would've been downed, but so would the ship. The EMP doesn't have "No Friendly-Fire" built in, had it gone off, then EVERYTHING electronic would've gone with it. So, had Niobi set off an EMP, then her ship wouldn't have been able to pick up everyone moments later.

well actually mittens the emp could have been a possibilty, you fail to realize the procedure they take in operating the weapon, they power the ship down first, in order to protect themselves from the emp blast, after the pulse has been activated the ship can than power back up. i do still disagree with it, i believe they would have made mention of it, and it didnt appear as if the ship was on the offensive. it is still a possibility though....heh

Ok, there is one thing that bugs me. Like most of the posts here, I think the end of the movie, where Neo kills the sentinel, is taking place in a "Matrix" world. Whether or not Zion has always been a matrix world I don't know - just the end scene might have been a simulation of the real world.

I think this might be more likely, though. If there were 99% accepting the real world, and 1% were given a choice to go to another Matrix (the Zion matrix say), then why make the Zion matrix so close to the real truth? Granted it is kept from doing much real damage by waiting around on the hope of the One (then again quite a few folks in Zion don't seem to believe in this...)

I mean if you're going to lie to the humans, lie more fundamentally - make a Matrix world where they are - I don't know - for instance the subjects of perception experiments by humans on humans? Just an example. Seems like the more of the truth they are allowed to know, the closer they are to potentially solving the puzzle. You can give them "choice" without giving them the truth, even a simulated version of it.

That's why I think that just the last scene is in a second (hastily constructed?) matrix. I'm trying to remember the sequence in which they plugged in to see the Architect, and the sequence in which they unplugged to see if there are clues there.

Either that, or if the Zion matrix has always been a matrix, it raises the question of whom the people there are really fighting, and if Morpheus' version of history from the first movie is even remotely accurate.

About Neo's killing the sentinels at the end of th movie, someone had said that its due to what happened at the end of first Matrix movie; that involved neo jumping into agent Smith. I thought that smith was dead, but in this movie (Reloaded)Smith said that by neo jumping into his coding, he gained some of neo's powers (i.e. being "freed" and replicating himself). Just as agent Smith somehow was able to receive some of neo's powers, vice versa, neo was somehow able to receive agent Smith's powers also which included the abililty to control the sentinel.

This is just another theory that is being floated around.

I've really enjoyed reading all of your posts, and I think it's great that this movie leaves so many things unanswered. I just hope the Revolutions doesn't disappoint and resort to more fighting and FX, while not fully addressing all of the answers we need. As for the multiple matrices theory, I think if that's the case, a great ending line for Revolutions would be Neo waking up and a voice saying to him, "Welcome to the real world." It would pose more questions, and be so open-ended it would aggravate everyone. While that may not be the best way to do it, I do hope that Revolutions doesn't tie up everything neatly, though I'm sure the answers we get will be interesting enough to make the movie compelling. One thing I've noticed also is that we almost have two clear-cut options as to what the ending of Reloaded meant, seemingly giving the audience the freedom to make the choice, thus keeping with the theme of the story. I can't wait to see how the Wachowski brothers finish off this series.

I dont belive there is a matrix within a matrix, I think there is just 1 matrix. In that matrix the 1 % that belive they are free are still infact within the matrix beliving that they have hope, but they are still imprissoned just as the other 99%. This would explain neo being able to stop the sentinals. This is the machines way of dealing with the 1% of people who don`t accept the matrix, very clever i thinks.

Here's another thought.
Part of the problem with the original films idea of the humans being used as a power source is that it wouldn't actually work. Human's are not entierly renewable as the remains of several humans would have to be used just to feed one human of the next generation. Even ignoring the energy needed to create the simulation of the matrix the machines would be losing energy doing this. However Reloaded solved this (by accident or design), every "anomaly" 23 humans are released and using human techniques (that perhaps the machines can't use) the humans get new energy until their population swells to 1/4 million and get inserted back into the matrix.
Just a thought.
P.S. But then again I believe the matrix-within-a-matrix theory so the whole of my post is made invalid!

in the words of Neo "whoa"... I just came up with what I think is a pretty viable theory of what's really going on with the plot of Reloaded.

At the end of the film they show Neo stoping machines outside of the matrix in "the real world" with just his own will power. When I first saw this scene I felt like this broke the fundamental rules of the Matrix films. Why? Well it looked like they were now saying 'Neo has special telekinetic powers that allow him to stop machines even in the real world' or something like that. Basically, that kind of "magic" would go against the set rules established by the first film. But, there are two other possible explanations. One, which I'm not strongly behind, is that Neo is in a matrix within a matrix, and we won't see the true "real world" until the end of the last film (Revolutions). The second, the one I'm leaning towards, is that Neo is in fact a machine himself.

Reasons why:
-The Architect told Neo that he is an "expected" anomaly designed to reset the matrix. This indicates programming design, rather than some errant human based glitch.

-Persephone, the wife of the frenchman Merovingian (a renegade program in the matrix), says that Merovingian was "like Neo at one time".

-Absolutely NO real explanation is given for why Agent Smith is still trying to kill Neo. Smith admits that he is now a renegade program no longer working for the matrix. So are we to assume Smith simply has a grudge with Neo? That's too simplistic for the Wachoski's (the directors). No, I think Smith represents the faction of machines that don't believe in humanity/feelings/peace with the humans. Smith is trying to stop a truce with the humans. Smith probably knows that Neo is a machine and isn't telling him. In fact, all through the film people keep telling Neo, in various ways, that he still doesn't really know himself.

-Only a machine could really stop another machine outside of the Matrix in the "real world" like Neo did, unless we're expected to now believe in "magic", something the directors have not given precedent for.

-In an interview on Charlie Rose, Reeves says that he feels the ultimate message of the final film is love and compassion. He doesn't say triumph over evil, or release from oppression, he says love. This indicates that some sort of truce may be in the offing between man and machine. Who better to initiate such a truce than a machine (Neo) who has learned to love a human (Trinity).

-The "choice" that the Architect refers to when addressing Neo... The Architect seems convinced, due to 6 previous situations (beta tests?) that Neo will chose the door leading to reset the matrix and guarantee the saving of mankind. Instead Neo "chooses" to save Trinity. Perhaps it is this choice that the machines have been attempting to cultivate in their own ranks in order to better understand/live with humans on the planet.

-Persephone (a renegade progam) makes a big deal about getting a kiss from Neo. This hints that there is a faction in the machine world that longs for "human-like" feeling, or love. Neo could be that bridge between their two worlds to initiate the "Third Renaissance (an Animatrix reference).

-The final film is entitled "Revolutions". It could have just been "Revolution". The title "Revolutions" indicates that more than one revolution, or paradigm shift, will occur. The most obvious one after the human revolution, would be a revolution in which machines no longer hunt humans due to a "choice" made by a machine (Neo).

-Finally, the most compelling hint in my view stems from a closer review of the animated shorts "Renaissance 1 & 2" that were written by the Matrix directors to tell the prequel story to the Matrix films. In those shorts, we see perfectly replicated humanoid robots interacting seamlessly with real humans. So the idea that there are human looking robots hiding in plain sight in "the real world" in the Matrix films is not an unrealistic notion. If Neo turned out to be a humanoid robot, that would explain many things. For instance, in the first film when Trinity wakes Neo up from the dead with just a kiss. Either Trinity has some "magic" of her own that we haven't been told about, or Neo's body isn't as frail and perishable as a normal human's. Thus, he was able to come back to life despite being killed in the matrix. Something no other human could do. Either that, or again, we must simply believe in "magic", something the directors have not been advocating.

In all the Matrix theories I heard, few people use the Animatrix shorts as additional reference guides. That's short-sighted because the Wachowski's actually wrote those animated stories. It would be foolish to think that they wrote those stories with no underlying hints/connections to the live action films.

btw, jen, your site rocks. ;^)

I was going to see this movie to fill my 2 movies a year quota (unlike some people whose quota is 70) because it's almost June and I haven't been in a movie theater yet this year. Thought I'd just go and be "entertained". Now that I see all this debate, I think my brain may have to work a little with this film.

Chuck, I believe Persephone is Mommy because the Architecht talks about an affinity with emotions, an understanding of the human phsyche, something not demonstrated by the oracle but Persephone wanted the kiss, talks about love ect. I's not definite but I reckon so.

Morohtar, yes you're right, but the architecht said about the inevitability, "there's nothing you can do to save her," so either he lied or was wrong.

I liked that Neo being a machine but wait, huge hole, what about the various readings on the Nebucanezzer (yeah wrongly spelt) the readings of his heart I mean, it's not just a frequency graph, there's an actual image of his heart moving on those screens.

I think with the thermodynamics of the fact that it just wouldn't work, and that they could just use fusion, I think that they won't provide an explanation 4 that, u can't it's ludicrous. The point is that the films are based on various philosiphies, nothing is real anymore, that french guy (philosipher in real life, not in the film) wrote a book that we live life through signs, newspapers and TV so nothing is real anymore. Thats the book where Neo hides his minidiscs in the first film. Also, they wouldn't have been able to make films about it if the Machines just used fusion (or used elephants in the matrix, that would be funny tho), thus the film is not about seeking a logical explanation to them using humans, but about the humans in the matrix and what they do.

I think Neo is the machine from the 9th Animatrix film Matriculated (the machine that the humans in the real-real world inspired to join their rebellion/revolution).

Working with RIO's idea (that the "real" world is just another part of the matrix), in the real-real world the machine found other humans and cunningly decided to inject itself into the matrix as the 6th replacement of the Neo entity (where previous ones were programs or humans coded by the Architect/Oracle), but with the difference that it would choose love, something previously unknown to machines, and thus create a revolution within the matrix, and eventually cause its downfall.

The Oracle said it wasn't the one because its not a human but a machine, and it chose a different door because its a machine and injected itself into the matrix with that intention.

Just another small detail. I have now seen the film twice, and I am sure I have seen something which may have a strong bearing on theories about the Matrix within a Matrix. When Neo says to Trinity that "the bullet is still inside you" he puts his hand into her and we see the Matrix code. Then there is a cutscene to Morpheus where he injects something into one of Trinity's inplants. Then (and this is the point) I am sure there is a split second clip of what looked like a hand pulling something from a bunch of black wires/cords amongst the reddish gue we saw in the first Matrix film where the humans are incubated. If anyone else saw this then PLEASE give me ur views, because it is making my brain go wild. Im sure I didnt imagine it!

I just saw the movie for the first time. Loved it. I enjoyed reading all the post so far and want to add my 2 cents. I feel way to understand this movie is to identify the underlying philosophical principle. The movie just shouts the yin / yang duality to me. A quick background about Yin / Yang.

"This Symbol (Yin-Yang) represents the ancient Chinese understanding of how things work. The outer circle represents "everything", while the black and white shapes within the circle represent the interaction of two energies, called "yin" (black) and "yang" (white), which cause everything to happen. They are not completely black or white, just as things in life are not completely black or white, and they cannot exist without each other"

- Humans need the machines and vice visa. As the counselor so clearly points out to Neo. Neither can survive nor prosper without the other. But there is a consistent struggle for power of the other. The machines can't totally control the humans. The first attempt of the matrix failed. There must be a choice so the Architect and the Mother create a system of control where universe (the matrix and the Zion in the real world) will renew itself. The Oracle, Zion, the One is all part of the system of control which allows Neo go back to the Source and reboot the system and keep everything running in balance. However, the balance with not kept in this instance of the world. Neo rebels against authority too much, loves and hopes too much. Now both man and machine risk complete and total mutual destruction.

- Neo is human and machine, just as Agent Smith is now machine and human. Again the duality here. I don't know why Neo has the special power to send EMP, but clearly Neo passes out with the blue glow around his head just like the damaged machines indicates the Neo has the same weakness as the machines in the real world. Like the Yin / Yang. Each part must have some aspect of the other. Majority of the machines are cold and mathematical, while very small number of machines understand the need for "love", "hate", and other emotions (Persephone, the Mother, Agent Smith). Off track here, but this might explain why Reeves acting is so deadpan, he is part machine.

My prediction about Revolutions.. The conflict is individual vs. the masses, emotion vs. logic, choice vs. fate, humans vs. machines. Both will need to create a new system of co-existence that doesn't involve this constant risk of mutual destruction. Two parallel revolutions within the man and machine community that is expressed in the final fight with make this happen so how.

I was pretty bored by the first half of the movie, so I thought the movie was okay. The fight sequences were cool, and the highway scene was the more amazing one, because you can actually relate to being on a highway. Morpheus bores. The speech he gave at the rally/rave was lame, which leads me to think the smelly hippies (TM Cartman) are pretty stupid too.

Anyway, what I thought was most interesting was, given the information that Larry Wachowski (or maybe it's the other brother, who knows) is leaving his wife for a dominatrix, there's a whole new subtext for the films. For example, when Neo revives Trinity, he's not holding her hand, he's holding her latex-gloved hand.

Some things to consider:

1) Why does the Oracle have "many enemies" if she is the "Mother" of the Matrix?
2) Why did the agents seek the information from Morpheus in the first film if they have, in fact, already destroyed Zion several times?
3) Why would the architect give Neo a choice at all, if he really wanted Neo to return to the source. He didn't have to tell Neo that Trinity had re-entered the Matrix. In fact, he could have even given Neo the option of including Trinity in the selected female list of those to rebuild Zion. Instead, everything he said manipulated Neo into returning to the Matrix, not into the other option. Is this the Architect's intention, for Neo to return to the Matrix?
4) What did the visit to the Architect accomplish?
5) Why would the agents seek to terminate the Keymaker, if, in fact, the keymaker were essential to the Architect's plan (namely, getting the One to the source so as to recycle the matrix)?
6) The Keymaker, when asked why he is helping the humans, responds with something that strongly suggests that they, humans and machines, are all in it together, all for the same purpose. What does this mean? We must consider such comments in light of Neo's conversation with the Senator on the dock of the engineering level (in which the Senator suggests machines and humans depend on one another).

ops, that turned out long O_o

Mr_Anderson, I must admit that you give a pretty good reference/plot hole with...

"I liked that Neo being a machine but wait, huge hole, what about the various readings on the Nebucanezzer (yeah wrongly spelt) the readings of his heart I mean, it's not just a frequency graph, there's an actual image of his heart moving on those screens."

But I'm leaning towards what Changster said regarding the idea that Neo is man AND machine. I used the term robot originally, because I didn't want to use the cheesy term "cyborg", but I do think that Neo being a cyborg (organic parts mixed with machine parts) would explain those readings on the hovercraft when they first saved him. Although, it does still leave the question of "wouldn't they have discovered at least some of his machine parts?" Despite this, I hold to my Neo is a machine belief, albeit tenuously, because it would explain SO much.

Finally, I must admit that lugo presents a damn compelling argument for the matrix in a matrix theory. this is starting to make me all loopy, I'll be holstering my matrix theory guns now. ;^)

Lugo: I really like your post

BUT - what will convince the audience that there are only those 2 matrices?
The part I don't like about multiple matrices is that it is very hard to make it stop - how do we know that there isn't just one more layer?

I guess it might be in the buddism part - since thats where the world within world comes from - or have I misunderstood your post?

'lugo: I too, if you look back in the posts have pondered what you did, about neo and the other one's dying or not dying or losing there powers or not losing there powers after the whole choice in the matrix of the left or right door. I think that the one continues to free minds with the people of Zion, but does not posses any of his "powers" in the matrix that he did before his "code" was re-inserted; so he would continue just as a normal human that could enter the matrix, but with out his special powers; that is my thoughts after looking at all of the evidence. Also I think you may be hinting at this, but I don't know for sure, I too think that if what you are saying about the council being made up of the 23 and the one being among them, then if I had to guess I say that it would be the senator; if any of them. As for your matrix with in a matrix theory, it is a good one and a nicely laid argument. I do, on the other hand disagree with the matrix in a matrix idea though (maybe sometime I could write out my reasons, if I ever had time to list them as neatly as you did)

I believe that the oracle is on the humans’ side. I am going to do a little philosophy here to prove it, but it will take some explaining of ideas here so bear with me (I have had classes in philosophy, but I am by no means an expert, nor do I claim to be). There is two different ways of thinking in philosophy in regards to the future, the first is determinism and the second is indeterminism (these are the ideas that Morphesus and the Merovingian discuss). For those of you who are not enlightened, determinism is the idea that even though through out a life it seems there are choices and decisions to be made, but there really is no choice and everything is predetermined by its precursor and the precursor by its precursor, etc.; cause and effect (just as the movie says). Indeterminism states the complete opposite; there are different choices to be made and any of them could be made, the catch is that the choice is not decided by previous events. I myself believe in a form of indeterminism where choice is caused by previous experiences. That is a long enough lecture and I must apologize because I have misplaced my text books from that semester so I can't give credit to the authors of the ideas I have sited above (if I find them later I will post them). Anyone who has seen the movies knows these ideas are debated in one part. Take the oracle for example, she is a classic case of determinism. Think, has she stated anything that has not been accurate? If she has the ability to know these things ahead of time, then the movies must believe in this idea of determinism. There is plenty of evidence to support this claim. When Neo sees the Oracle he tries to prove her wrong by not sitting, but fails. As much as I wish Morphesus was right and saying that it is choice, the Merovingian is right in the sense of the movie, it is cause and effect. Neo's fate has already been decided and the Oracle knows it. Take these things as a few other examples of the cause and effect idea. Cause: Neo is told of the keymaster and what he needs to do, Effect: Neo goes gets the keymaster and so on, Cause: Neo is in love with trinity and enters the room with the architect and is told of trinity's problems, Effect: Neo does what we all knew he would do saves the girl. A great example of this idea is the thought that the oracle presents in the first movie, if she hadn't told neo of the vase would he have still broken it? No, is the answer, it was cause and effect. Same with trinity and neo falling in love and then Neo's decision to save her and not take the other door. The point I am trying to make is that this movie (in my honest opinion, but not necessarily the correct one) is based on determinism, or as Morphesus calls it fate. Here it the argument summed up in the shape of a philosophical argument.

1. The future can, and has, be predicted very accurately every time (if you think this is wrong tell when the oracle was wrong about her predictions)
2.If the future can be predicted this accurately every time, then the future has already been written so that it can be predicted (because it is impossible to predict something every time with this may possible outcomes with out being wrong one or twice).
3. If statement 1 and 2 is true then the matrix is based on determinism.

Now I know all of you are saying that is fine and dandy but WHAT THE HECK does this have to do with the Oracle being of the Humans side? The answer simply is if she can predict all these out comes and know all of this then she knew that neo would choose not to reboot the matrix, eventually meaning that the machines would lose all of the humans if this happened, so if she on the side of the machines then she would not have helped neo. She helped neo because she knows what will happen in the end already, humans and machines will get along or the humans will win (only daft idiot would end it with them losing and I give the brothers much more credit than that), but this could be wrong, regardless her stasis of being good does not change. I know this is long if you have read it all, thanks I hope if anyone has any thoughts or counter arguments they will state them.

To Jusu :
I would like to say something about the idea that Agent Smith "copied" himself into Bane in the same way Neo learned his Kung-Fu. When Tank uploaded Neo the Kung-Fu program, Neo could only use these skills inside the Matrix, not in the supposingly real world, so it should mean that whatever program is uploaded to a human, it could only work inside the Matrix. Thus unless the Zion-world is yet another Matrix, Smith wouldn't have been able to duplicate himself into the mind of a real human.

Well....anyway.... just another opinion :)

lugo, reading one of your earlier posts, am i right in saying that you think that when Neo in the "real world matrix" stopped those sentinals, he, like the man in world record, awoke from the "real world matrix" and is now in the real real world due to the physical over-exuberance? That would explain the "coma" he is in. is this right or have i totaly missed your point.

i think there are only 2 matrices. infinate matrices or even more than 2 would make revolutions a bit repetitive(right word?) if they kept realising they were in another matrix.

Alright--We're gonna try to tie as much together as possible in a way that makes logical sense to us, being as little farfetched as possible.

First, Zion. We agree with one or two previous posts (A Guy From St. Louis, I believe), in that the existence of Zion is perpetuated by the machines for a reason which is consistent with their needs and purposes. The purpose of Zion is to have a place for humans to function, and perform two tasks that the machines are not able to do themselves--find and recruit all the other members of that 1% of the population which does not accept the Matrix as reality, and to locate the One from those people.

Once enough rebels have been located, the machines exercise their control over both the humans and their situation by "resetting" Zion. That is to say, eliminating all the human rebels of the current generation. The purpose of the chosen 23 people is to begin the locating of all the rebels and dissenters of the next era of the Matrix. In other words, by isolating the free minds and concentrating them together, Zion helps the machines, by allowing them to keep the humans in check by simply destroying Zion.

To address the question of why the machines don't simply destroy all of Zion and not leave the 23 chosen people to repopulate it, we refer to the Architect's speech. He explains how the imperfection in humans is so innate and intrinsic that it is a part of the very mathematical equation underlying this world. In other words, the rebel humans cannot be avoided or prevented. That imperfection will ALWAYS exist, and therefore the machines must find a way of finding, concentrating, and controlling them (Zion).

As the Architect implies, as long as the humans feel that Zion is their creation and that it is their actions which sustain its existence, they will have no reason to rebel against that system. Because they have choices, humans feel as though they "chose" to enter Zion, rather than that they entered it through some kind of filtration system.

Second, the Oracle. The Oracle is the "mother" of the Matrix, not Persephone. While it is the Architect's "job" to control and oversee the Matrix, it is the Oracle's job to find, through her "intuitive" programming and investigations "into the human psyche," those minds which can be freed and entered into Zion.
When the Architect scoffs "Please" in response to Neo referring to the Oracle as the mother of the Matrix, he is scoffing at the title "Oracle", because she is not an Oracle, not because she is not the mother of the Matrix. An oracle's function is to "see" the future. This is not what the Oracle does; she merely predicts the actions of humans based on her intuitive nature. Hence, the Architect scoffs when Neo calls her the Oracle, a title no doubt given to her by humans.

Third, Agent Smith. There is only one scenario that makes any kind of logical sense to us. Agent Smith has become a virus. This not only explains his rapid infestation of other bodies, but also explains both the "cataclysmic system crash" referred to by the Architect, and Neo's connection with Agent Smith that allows him to destroy the sentinel at the end of Reloaded (because machines can control other machines).

In addition to simply appearing to be a virus and act like a virus (replicating with no discernable goal in mind other than to multiply), there are storyline references which imply that Smith is a virus as well. In the first movie, Smith discusses how the human race behaves like a virus. Since he, an agent, was against the human race virus, he referred to himself as "the cure." In Reloaded, during the scene where Neo fights all the Smiths, Smith encounters a different agent on the side of all the fighting. They exchange some bitter words, and Smith proceeds to destroy the other agent by replicating himself once again. This shows that Smith is now against the agents as well, and since they are "the cure," Smith must now be "the virus."

At the end of Reloaded, when Neo is given a choice of doors in the Architect's room, he chooses his "left" door which is supposed to lead back to the Matrix, and to a "cataclysmic system crash which will lead to the destruction of all humans in the Matrix." Only part of this immediately happens. The door does return Neo to the Matrix, but there is no evidence of a "system crash." This system crash is taking the form of the replication and infestation of the Agent Smiths. A computer program, the Matrix, is being overrun by a virus, Agent Smith, which is leading to the destruction of all humans in the Matrix.

It is fairly obvious that Neo and Agent Smith share some kind of connection. They each kill each other and come back to life in a new state of being. They are referred to as "similar," at least by Agent Smith. We are not necessarily proposing that Neo is a "machine," but Neo definitely has some kind of connection to Agent Smith, a machine, which allows Neo to control machines in the same way. This explains Neo's destruction of the sentinel at the end of Reloaded. Either he is a machine, or he simply can control machines through his link with Smith. No Matrix within a Matrix. No magic.

We refuse to accept the Matrix in a Matrix theory for several reasons. First, wouldn't Neo have to see the "real world" Matrix in code the same way he sees the other Matrix in code? Second, if this were the case, this new twist would horrendously massacre the plot and would eliminate all the credibility and respectability that the filmmakers have gained through the making of the first two films. It would be so lame, and so irritatingly cliche. As of right now, at the conclusion of Reloaded, the directors are on the brink of what may be the most intricate and most finely-tuned creation of storytelling. I hope that they stay true to their style and keep the real world what it is.

Just a final thought: No one has been discussing the portals and those hallways filled with doors that lead to places outside the Matrix. Are these doors a new dimension? A new world? Other programs like the Matrix? Simply glitches? Or are they pathways put there by the Architect or other programmers? It's such an interesting aspect of the film, which hasn't gotten enough discussion.

Jeff and Melissa

Jeff & Melissa

They don't originate from the 23 - they originate from the 23 and those they get from the Matrix.

Jeff and Melissa, I totally agree with you on every point...

One other thing.
Another thing that hasn't been discussed is the meaning of the number 101. You can notice it all through both episodes: both beginning and end rooms in Matrix (#1), the floor level of the restaurant in Reloaded, the highway (it's the highway 101), and many more that i don't remember right now. (I would even say the the trio represents this number: have you noticed how they walk always in the same way in Reloaded? Trinity - Morpheus - Neo : White-Black-White : 101... Could be a coincidense but whatever :p

So... back to the meaning of this number... Well, in binary counting, it means 5, however, the number 101 is the 6th binary number if we start a 0 (0,1,10,11,100,101): you got my point, it is the 6th version of the matrix.

It's just an idea... If someone has a better theory about the meaning of this number, please.

Jusu, that 101 thing is cool! I'd noticed it had popped up a couple of times in the first film but hadn't made the connection in Reloaded (as I've only seen it once.) I thought it was just supposed to be a comment on Neo being the one. I think you're spot on with the #6 in binary and Neo being the 6th "one". Could you inform the board if you remember any more 101 references.

P.S. DaDane, Cataclysmic comes from cataclysm which is an incredibly violent destruction of something. e.g. The cataclysm of Atlantis, the mythical continent destroyed in a few days by natural disasters. However it occasionally means a violent *change*, not destruction. Have we stumbled onto another of those prohecies here?

It the trailer (the one from the games atleast) your hear Morpheus say "He fights for us" with surprise in his voice. It really puzzles me - I mean - why is he suprised that Neo fight for them - he always did, - didn't he?

Also - I really really dislike the Matrix in the Matrix idea (since it will really complicate things - how do you know for sure when you are in the real real world???) - But I guess that Mr. Smiths "Welcome back, we missed you" might suggest that he has been "away". Of course it could just be from the matrix (i.e. he was in the real world (Zion) - but I guess there's more to it than that).

Jeff and Melissa:
The fundemental flaw in the argument that Neo can control sentinels because he is in some way linked with Smith is this:
If you asume that Zion is the real world, and the link was made within the Matrix (first film) then logically the only effects of this could be that part of Smith's program was overwritten and so was part of Neo's mind.
But no more than his mind because that is all that is connected to the Matrix. Nothing could have happened to him physically. Notice how when people fell pain in the Matrix and the transfer it to their real bodies they never get more than a bleeding nose or jaw, things that are common and can be caused by stress, pressure and such. When someone gets shot, their real bodies don't gain any bullet holes. So if no physical transformation occured then nothing happened that would allow him to transmit messages in any form to machines. Similarly Smith who completely replaced Bane's mind as a human body would have no way to communicate with machines, but i assume he does since the attacking sentinels allow him to survive.
The only plausible explaination for this is that both Neo's and Smith's minds are still physically electronically connected to the Machines.

Jusu:
Nice attention to detail :D but Kelly hit the nail on the head. The Wachowski brothers did say in some interview that the 101 motive is based on Orwell's "1984", which is why it appears in so many ways which you pointed out.

Jeff and Melissa again:
I guess you missed some things i said in my posts
because i did discuss both the programers access corridor and the council = 23 theory.

Just so you don't have to look for it:
Morpheus says in his cavern speech that they have fought the machines for 100 years.
The Councelor tells Neo that he slept for the first 11 years of his life, which means he was 11 when they freed him from the Matrix, too young to be selected as on of 23 to build a city, and he doesn't look to be 111 years old.

The corridors are a different level of the Matrix, kind of like Matrix = program, corridor = operating system. It is clear that it is a different level because it survives each of the 6 Matrix restarts. Proof of this is that programs from older versions of the Matrix escaped here and survived the reboot.
This also leads me to believe that Zion could be on another level Matrix since we know that there are a least two levels (Matrix, and corridor).

Finaly, would Neo see code in the the Zion world? No. He spent most of his life in the Matrix without seeing code, and only when he awoke, was trained and then learned more by himself did he start seeing code. To see code in Zion he would have to 'learn' the news Zion code.

And just for the record i believe that Zion is the last level of the Matrix. Despite the fact that they could go on indefinitely, more than two would not tie in with the Gnostic view that seems to have influenced the film so much.

To Ryan:
Hum, well. As you said, it is only a state of mind. Why? Because as said in the 1st movie, humans are not born, but grown. Pregnancy is then just a "lie" told by the matrix, and the new kid that is just born is then another entity plugged into the matrix as soon as he comes to "life" inside the matrix.
But that's a point we shouldn't maybe put too much attention on, I guess there are many other questions like this one that could be formulated.

However, I wanted to argue about the my opinion that is that there is no "matrix-in-a-matrix" thing. Here's my point.

Well, we've argued about the fact how Neo could control the sentinels in the real world. I guess if we admit that a part of Smith was "copied" into Neo, then he could "easily" stop the sentinels. My explanation: I just re-saw the first movie, and Smith DOES really have a control on the sentinels in the real world since he can "order the strike", as the other agents seem to tell.

Another thinng that came to me was the fact that all the programs they are uploaded with DO remain in the real world. (someone told that that could not be possible, i believe it is) Why? Well it's really simple. In the 1st movie we hear clearly that all "newbies" get some kind of "operating programs" uploaded. These program designed to be able to us all the machines inside the ship. Well, we see Neo, just before he re-enters the matrix, load up his own chair and load some other stuff up. Whatever. So this has made me believe that they really can use all they have learned during the training. I believe that Neo could be a teriffic Kung-Fu fighter in the real world, BUT that of course he would not be able to fly or jump really high, since he cannot bend or break the physical rules of the real world.

I explain this because I believe Smith did in fact enter the mind of Bane, similarely to a uploaded software, as the Kung-Fu fighting program.

Thus, no "matrix-in-a-matrix" thing. Only my opinion. I'm far from pretending to have the right answer.

PS: I was probably wrong about the 101 thing. Or maybe it's another idea. But the Room 101 thing explained before is the most commonly accepted and logical answer to "why" this number.

I'm having a good time reading all of your theories; keep up the good work and please tell me if I'm in anyway "wrong" in what I said just before.

If Neo can fly at hundreds, if not thousands, of miles per hour as confirmed by his rescue of Trinity, then why does he always waste so much time sparring with agents and rogues in a mechanical/acrobatic style? After all, he could use sheer velocity of movement to utterly dismember or outright disintegrate his opponents? Answer: kung fu fighting is the theme of the day in modern action cinema so verisimilitude be damned.

Motormetalmaniac: I don't know if you're serious or not, but I think we're just meant to accept the fact that Neo can't kill Agents with the speed of light. If Neo WAS able to beat them at lightning speed, there would be 10 second fights, thus making the movie considerably boring to the majority. If the movie was consistent in every element, it wouldn't be as popular.

Hmm, you could be right. I saw the trailer at the end of the movie but it didn't reveal much. If Neo does kill Smith in a matter of seconds I will be so disappointed. We'll have seen the whole trilogy by then, and to end the final battle with a 10 second fight would be fatal. I'm sure that a lot of people will be disappointed.

Well - how do you cure a virus?

You can terminate it - but that seems not to work, because he don't "die" even when he know he should.

"You destroyed me, Mr. Anderson. Afterwards, I was aware of the rules. I knew what I was supposed to do, but I didn't. I was compelled to stay- compelled to disobey. And right now, here I stand because of you, Mr. Anderson. Because of you, I'm no longer an Agent of this system. Because of you, I'm unplugged. A new man, sort of speak- like you. Apparently free."

Another way of "curing" is to isolate it. It would be pretty cowardish, but he might actually just be held "prisoner" in a special room that he can't escape (probably such rooms will be located at the corridor).

As a side note I’m astounded at what the Wachowski Brothers have done. I've been thinking about the film a lot, and trying to understand it and reading all the comments on this bored and talking to friends about it. I mean this is a main-stream blockbuster movie that is doing this to me!
What Jeff and Melissa were saying is very true about the story being so intricate and finely-tuned. You can tell that they have put a lot of energy into making the story as surprising, un-predictable and thought provoking as possible.
And the script is so cleverly written especially the scene with the architect.
I respect anyone that can us the words affirmation contingent and predication in one sentence!!

Yes it is truely an amazin universe

1) They have thought about the things. It a universe with is different and seems very consistent (have to see the last movie to judge, but it seems like that)

2) They have maneged to put in tons of references

3) They really seems to know something about all of the aspects. The things which has to do with computers are very nice and consistent with reality. I'm not an expert, but it seems to be the case for philosophy as well.

4) They have managed to tell a lot and still not reveal everything - they truely are good storytellers.

I guess that we all (here) agree that it's a movie in a different leauge than just about every other movie you see. (Not everybody thinks that - but those who don't probably don't spend a lot of time here).

I think that you have some pretty hard evidence lugo.

Let's in the following assume that Zion is the real world (i.e. not another Matrix).

There is no reasonably way that Neo can comunicate with Smith when not connected to the Matrix. Nor is there a reasonably way that he (by force) can stop those sentinels - even if he uses all his powers.

So what is happending?

The sentinels ran out of battery (by luck just there)
The sentinels like Neo to much and do what he asks

Well those explanations are by far worse than the matrix in the matrix, - so that's definately not helping us at all.

I guess there is just one possiblity left - that the ship actually did it - but even that seems far out.

I guess we can say we have reached a contradiction - so our assumption (Zion is the real world) is false. But I still don't like it!

What about the thing that Morpheus says when the Nebuchadnezzar was destroyed by the bomb, he said somethings like:

"I deamed a dream, now that dream is gone..."

That's what I remember he said, correct me if I'm wrong. The thing is: why Morpheus says this ??

Ryan, why are you on here? Dont you have any of your own things to do rather than just insulting people who like to be interlectually challenged and to discuss/hypothesise with other people? I suspect that it is you who is without a life; coming onto a forum simply to post pathetic and petty insults, shloudn't you have something better to do? Also you argue that posts are made at early/unsociable hours. Does that not suggest that they are doing other things in the daytime? I should also point out that not everyone is from the same country and that there are time zones!! You did know that, didn't you? Or is it that you are so dumb (is that PC? I should say interlectually challenged) that you simply over look all possible explanations and blurt out whatever it is you are thinking? How about you try something slightly challenging and attempt to answer something rather than just asking questions and unsuccessfully attempting to abuse other people. i might point out that although we have no certain answers, there is still one film to be released and therefore your oh-so deep and hurtful jibe about unanswered questions may yet to be proven to be totally irrelevent. So why dont you do us all a favour and (in my home town's terms) Do one!!!

I thank you.

Lugo (and other): I think that I have an idea for an ending which I can live with.

First the machines created the Matrix - but it didn't work out perfectly, because someone didn't accept it. They escaped the Matrix and made Zion in the real world. The maschines found out and they much more than likely have destroyed Zion. This might have happend more than once (depending on how smart the maschines was. The first time they saw people escaping and creating a new place they might just have eliminated them, the second time they probably though that they had to do something more permanent to the problem). At some time the maschines (The Oracle) found out that it was rather inefficient loosing all these "batteries" and also wasting energy of destroying them (because they might be a threat otherwise). So they made a second version of the Matrix which made people believe (perhaps even unconcious) that they had a choise. So most accepted the matrix as it was - and the remaining one percent rejected it for just another dreamworld - the Zion simulation. This all happens in THE SAME matrix (revision 2). They go NOWHERE - and they never gets unplugged.

But now Neo actually "awakes himself" from Zion. This might actually be the very first time that happens. We haven't heard of anyone just getting unconsious or even "die" for no apparent reason in Zion, which we probably would have if it was somewhat normal that people left Zion for the real world.

That makes it ONE matrix - but two different DREAM WORLDS. But no more than two!

Now we only need one thing. Mr. Smith! He certainly is strange - and it definitely seems like he it a threat to humanity. How come. Probably because he is killing minds. He takes over a lot of bodies - threatening to destroy humanity and perhaps even the machine's world as well (he might destroy the Matrix - and thereby their powersupply). So it is of the uttermost importance that Neo stops him - and probably the maschines will even help him. But let's see about that in "revolutions".

Please comment!

~I have a dreamed a dream~

Nebuchadnezzar's Dream

Daniel 2:3 And the king said unto them, I have dreamed a dream, and my spirit was troubled to know [what] the dream [means].

Paul: yea, maybe not the best way to do it, but there is a lot more to the overall story than Neo. I have a feeling the third movie (after defining Neo better) will be more based on other stories (viz. Zion.)

A couple of theories I was playing around with, which after reading the synopsis for part III I really doubt would happen... would be things like:

Neo did not stop the sentinals. Although Neo put his hand up a-la-bulletstopping, and the sentinals fell, doesn't necessarily mean he stopped them. The other ship (the Hammer I believe) was nearby before they appeared to us. The Hammer could have used an EMP, stopping the sentinals at luckily the same time. They did if you notice die the same way, with the same lights as when they were hit by an EMP.

...now a lot of people would be quick to say, "BUT HE FELT IT!!" or "BUT HE COLLAPSED AT THE END!!" ...well, this too can be explained.

We saw how the EMP affected Bane (the guy Smith infected that is on the "real world" side; guy laying down next to Neo at the end).. he's in a coma. Well, the same thing could have happened to Neo as well. In Matrix 1 when Neo jumped into Agent Smith, as Smith says "I don't know, maybe something was overwritten" but obviously some code got mixed. This explains why the sentinals went down, Neo went down, Bane went down, and why Neo felt the electromagnetic pulse coming.

Sure, why not.

'lugo: There is a problem with your theory about there not being any super natural things going on in the real world. Think about the frist movie, neo died, plain and simple. His heart was stopped, he was flatline for about 60 seconds. Then when trinity kissed him (not cpr or any other lifesaving methods) his heart started again. This sounds pretty super natural to me. Now I know you are thinking he willed himself to not die in the matrix, but for those sixty seconds he was dead in both the real world and the matrix, so riddle me this: how can you mind be willing you not to die when you are dead? Even though neo is the one, that fact (in your theory) is supposed to only have effects in the matrix, not the real world where no supernatural events take place. He was dead in both places and then he came back to life in both, supernatural in both.

Neo is a program implemented into a human body...he was born, he was raised, he went to HS, to college, lost his virginity, all the time feeling as if he were living a dream. He is human with the matrix's programming coursing through his cyborg brain. When he is freed his preprogramming takes full effect allowing him to do those uncanny feats in the Matrix. After the ordeal he goes through in "Reloaded" and the helluva conversation with the Architect his mind is in disarray and now with his decision to chose the door to save Trinity he has thusly set forth events that have never been set forth by his 5 predecessors...if what the Architect said was true then what happens now is a series of events never before experienced by both the humans and the programmed entities. And about Neo stopping the Sentinels...being that he seems to have shorted them out and not miraculously stop them in midair I do not believe he is in some aptly named "Matrix B". He is just becoming more aware of his programming and can now sense it in Matrix based entities outside the Matrix itself (the sentinels). Thats what I believe...ALSO judging from the third movies teaser, I believe it will be known by all that Neo is indeed a program. That is why when he is shown fighting Agent Smith [who must've upgraded himself because it seems there is no burly brawl 2, just a one on one DBZ type urban brawl] Morpheus says shocked, "He fights for us." as if such a feat were now strange...I mean Neo always fought for "us" why so amazing now...and also I really hope there is no Matrix B cause even the the idea is interesting...its not really fulfilling. I mean after all this to find out hes immersed in some green liquid filled Egg in the Real Real world. The Matrix was the Birth, Reloaded the Life, and Revolutions is the Death...(not an original idea) What we need answered though is: These movies represent the lifecycle for what?
Speculate Please :-D

I think that lugo has "proven" very well that Zion can not be the real world.

There can be no supernatural things in the real world (sensing, controling Sentinels etc).

I can see that a lot of you think otherwise - can't you please tell why?

1) What's wrong with lugo's prove

og

2) What's more importent (i.e. you can't prove lugo wrong, but you have another prove for something else - something that isn't compatible with lugo's idea).

TruthBeTold:

How about this

There's a billon Mr. Smiths surrounding the "good guys" who really think that everything is lost.¨
Neo is captured by Mirovingian and there's just no hope.
But, surprise surprise, Neo actually shows up. - Niobe sees him first and says "Neo" (it's on the trailer) - and shortly after Morpheus sees him to (thinking that everything might not be lost after all) saying "He fights for us".

Some interesting theories going on. I actually have far more issue with Neo being a machine that the matrix-within-a-matrix idea. I can't really explain my problem with Neo being a machine.. it would just be... well rubbish. The architect tells Neo he is the "eventuality of an anomaly". I think the anomaly actually means the 1% who reject the matrix. The eventuality is that one person in this anomaly will eventually become entirely adept at manipulating the matrix world. If Neo was merely a machine the Architect could surely have just got rid of him, rather than being "unable to eliminate".
As for the matrix-within-a-matrix idea, I'm fine with it. I do think that the two different worlds (the 1999 and 2199 ones) are just on different branches of the machine mainframe (which was shown as the white corridors.) The 2199 world being just another matrix would explain why they only thought it was around this date rather than 600 (6 x 100 years for each anomaly) years in the future. A new 2199 world is created from the "source". Also, lugo raised a very good point when he said what was actually happening when Neo stopped the sentinals if 2199 was the real world. Smith can indeed issue a strike as he is in the Matrix in the first movie. However, Neo isnt connected to any matrix so how could he get a message to the machines?
As for the thing about Neo finding out which "level" was the real real world Neo could just continue to try his powers until they no longer worked. (He never used them in 2199 because he never considered the possibility.)

P.S. The birth thing is no problem to work out. When two people conceive in the matrix the machines symply remove the sperm and egg cells from the individuals comatosed bodies in the power plant and allow an embryo to develop in a new pod. Then they just feed the electrical signals into the foetus brain (once it has a nervous system) to tell it that it is in its mothers womb, until it is born and continues with its life like everyone else in the matrix.

I believe that most of you need to learn how to spell correctly. It is unfortunate that the majority of you speak as if you got your english degree at K-Mart, at least learn how to spell correctly. Yo, no what m sayin yo yo dog? Yo....

Stay in School. Fools.

To the anonymous guy - not all of us are american. I myself is danish, so english (american) are not my native tounge. I believe that you can read what I writes.

I don't see the point in studying english just to be allowed to use the internet.

You are the moron who should stay in school. Not me!

If anything, this movie, its predecessor and its follow up should teach us all one basic point of thruth and that is "Whatever the thinker thinks, the Prover proves". As long as you keep this in mind whilst speculating the conversations will be much more enjoyable and much more informative.

Noor,

Matrix is a science fiction movie, so, it should answer your question.

However, Virtual reality, as in the Matrix quality, is still a long time off. You would need a computer that would be capable of processing thousands of trillions and trillions of instructions per second. Those types of computers are still many, many years away, but I do believe that those types of computer will be around maybe within the next 100 - 200 years due to the advancement of nanotechnology.
With nano technology, scientists are predicting that they can fit the most powerful and fastest computers we currently have on to the head of a pin. But you want to do further research, look into nano technology.

Neo is human...he is supposed to be human...thats how the machines designed him...just like Agent Smith is now human...his consciousness is just programmed. Thats what I mean by Neo is a program...and "He Fights for Us" is still a very skeptical saying...

Btw , stop saying that The Oracle , the agents , Mr.smith and so on are MASHINES? For fucks sake they're software (or now smith has become som sort of virus , but in some extendt neo is a virus also?). Stop saying wrong even if its said in context...

/me = tired. Sorry for all the misspelling but it's getting late over here ;P

I saw the movie for the second time today. About the ending, there is the blue electricity sparks around the sentinels when they stop in front of Neo like the EMP. However this could be what happens to sentinals when they are broken by anything. However some people suggested it was the same EMP that put Neo in a coma. I noticed that Neo only collapsed AFTER the sentinals, not at the same time. Seems more like he was worn out by the effort.
I've got another question for the forum. In the architect's room what are the images of Neo on the screen? Some suggest that they show the responses of the previous five. However after the Architect says "this is the sixth version" when *our* Neo is saying "either no-one told me.." another one is saying "there have been five before me?". This couldn't have been said by one of the previous five as none of them have had five before them. Perhaps they are showing the possible choices Neo thinks of saying to each remark. Links in with the whole choice (red pill/blue pill, left door/right door) thing.

I do not think any of the original 23 are alive within Zion now...I mean there are 250,000 people in Zion, even with the extractions it would take a lot more than enough years to turn a head of hair fully grey to fully populate Zion up to 250,000 Centuries probably passed since the choice was given to the 5th one and the original 23 are probably dead and buried and probably were fed a false memory of how they escaped the Matrix. And I read somewhere about the Counselor being a previous 'One'...Lets be real now...that is a stupid idea...I do not doubt the idea that the Counselor does indeed know more than he tells but as far as him being a previous 'One' it just doesnt tie in chronologically and logically. And all the ideas about the Matrix within a Matrix make sense, I mean the Architect kind of suggest it by stating that the humans needed a choice...perhaps a choice between the real-world matrix(Zion) and the fake worl Matrix (The Matrix) but I just hope this isn't the case because A. its too easy to think of, and B. Its not really fulfilling. I'd be happier if Neo donned a Red S than if there is indeed a Matrix within a Matrix. And I still believe Neo is a Program inserted into a human mind, and (to go off on a tangent) Agent Smith had no idea that answering the phone would send him into Bane's body, that was a coincidence, back to Neo being a programmed entity (Which is what the sentient programs should be called, the sentinels are machines, the Agents, Oracle, Architect, Merovingian, Persephone, are all Programmed Entities) The Architect says that the source code has to be reimplemented for the cycle to continue again so no matter what, if he is a complete program or an incomplete program (whereas the code is only part of his persona not the entire thing[which is what i believe]) the part of him which made him have such control over the Matrix has to be a code, otherwise why would they need it back?
I kinda lost focus at the end of what I just typed because I'm watching "Enough" on HBO...so if it gets a lil sketchy let me know...but can I please have more speculation on the "He Fights for us" by Morpheus in the Matrix Revolutions Teaser. Because that is a rather speculatory happening...do you agree?

Think of how food is used to integrate programs within the matrix. The cake given to the blonde was 'written' by the Merovingian, ie a subroutine of some sort.
It's been a while since I saw M1, but I remember the oracle offering Neo a cookie, and saying something like, "when you're finished eating it you'll be as right as rain..." Surely this could be some code that the oracle wrote?
And then, in M2, she offers him some candy. We don't see Neo eating it, maybe it comes in later?

Chuck: The think is that the Animatrix episode (Kid's Story) establishes that it is possible to die in the Matrix while your mind survives out of it. And the fact that we have that same kid running around Zion in reloaded suggests to me that he has yet some part to play in this.

My views on "He fights for us": I didn't really see anything special here. To me that quote sounded much like "What is he doing?" "He's starting to believe" from the first movie. The tone of voice was definitely the same, so i dismissed those words as just his way of speaking.

To Benedict Branca...do you pay attention to the movies??

I read all posts, watched Reloaded at only one time...But in the movie there is some clue which is easily noticable...I think The Oracle and The Architect have an argument about an something secret...We saw what The Oracle said always happened exactly...but For Architect all things are different...He talks like the leader of machines...I think Matrix wasn't destroyed(we will see in the next sequel) and also real world which is supposed Zion is real world to only the some level consciousness...WB tries all ways sometimes exaggeratly for pointing out this to audience (for example rave scene)

So I think the end of the movie, We will see that Neo will have an ability the control of the all system(So he is going to know The ONE undoubtely at that time)...And he will give all Matrix inhabitants to chance for realizing the real real world which is neither Matrix nor Zion(somewhere in there isn't any need for machines...Maybe Neo will make this place to prove that we don't really need machines to survive...)

...At that point ofcourse he should sacrifice living as a slave normal human...He will wake up in front of his computer just like as if nothing happend...And then door is knocked(Only this conclusion make this movie really unforgottable)...Bam...All green numbers and letters come...

Pat,

I wasn't totally dismissing the world thats painted in the Matrix movie isn't possible right now, but rather; relative to our own reality to create a matrix is impossible right now. Even to try and create a Matrix by normal humans living in the "real world" in the matrix would be impossible for them relative to their "reality" in their current time.

Yes, I agree with you to a point that its possible that our reality may well be a "reality" within a "matrix" type world, and we all exist within in some super advanced "computer", but thats more of a philosophical debate, which I don't know much about. From my background in computers, I took what what Noor asked from a technical point of view.

Proofing the loop ending of matrix trilogy...

While I were watching The Matrix Revolutions teaser with slow motion...I realized that straightforward to the end of the teaser there is a train (named LOOP) coming through to screen...I don't think this is coincidence...;)

sorry, most of those question marks "?" actually represent quotation marks ""

Another thing... Does anyone know why the Agent fighting Morpheus on the truck bleeds???

I think that there is one thing that few of us are considering and thats the Wachowski Brothers' intent. As most of you know (and if you didnt you wouldnt be on this site wasting your time trying to make sense of the movie)the Matrix is more than high-action sci-flick with a philosophical twist. It's a collection of different elements and mediums ingrained in pop culture. It borrows its visual style and storytelling from japanese animation (ghost in the shell and akira to name a couple)and its fight scenes from hong kong cinema. The plot has strong roots in early cyberpunk novels by authors like Isaac Asimov and has a deeply ingrained theme of metaphysical philosophy which challenges the foundations of reality. All mixed together with religious parallels, be they buddist, christian, muslim, or hindu,and a dab of pop culture.
It's a story about humanity in all its unique splendor and unavoidable horror. It begs the age old question of as to whether or not we are truly free. And it does so by taking different means of storytelling throughout human history (from religious doctrine, to philosophical writing, to comic books)and combining them into film. After all if it didnt, then there would be so much room for interpretation of its plot and meaning.
Now as for whether i think there is a second matrix, i'd have to say no. It would lead to a convoluted plot, and besides the machines are too confident in the perfection of their calculations to think that humanity and even Neo would stand a chance. The do not understand the concept of choice and will never be able to cope with free will. To them there are only two alternatives: 1)The one carries out his intended function and the matrix is reloaded for the seventh time or 2)The One chooses imminent doom and condemns humanity to extinction at the machines hands...either way, in their binary mindset, they win. However they underestimate the power of the human spirit. Anyway, it would lead to a confused and convoluted plotline to make any indications of a second matrix and it would take away from the ultimate importance of Zion and Humanities last stand.

Cypher probably did his dirty work by arranging his contacts with the Agents first (remember when Neo scared the "bejesus" out of him? Cypher then looked around to see anyone else and flicked off 6 monitors, stuff he didnt want others to see) The Matrix loaded him up and provided him with aan exit. The only problem was that hed have to put that electrode in the back of his head but I'm sure this could be done with practise. Just because everyone else is helped by someone else (probably to avoid the disorientation it causes) doesnt mean they have to be.

OH MAN! Some of these posts.... I think we are all getting a little too involved in anylising every single detail of the film and then speculating on it! For now we should just al stick to what we KNOW. As it stands I do not believe in what AL says about Neo waking up and it was al a dream. Thats is the sort of ending that would ruin the whole idea of the film. What we do know is that the game TheMatrixOnline was revealed on the 14th May which tells us that the game (which involves players interacting in the Matrix) will take place after the film trilogy. This means the MAtrix will still exist after Revolutions. TBC......

About Neo beeing a machine:i think it is , because at the beginig of the movie , when the three agents enter the door they say something like this:
agent 1:it's him!
agent2:the anomaly
agent1:do we proced?
agent2:yes
agent1:he is STILL...
agent 3:only human
What do you think about this?

I can't say that my weight is firmly in the matrix-within-a-matrix corner. I'm kind of arguing that case because I feel its a valid one that people are dismissing too easily. Trinity blocking out the EMP from Neo? It's kind of clutching at straws. And also, say it was the real world and Neo was a machine how is he physically communicating the message to the sentinels? Has he got some radio transmitter in his brain? Wouldn't the crew of the Neb have picked this up? If any of Neo was physically machine I think it would have been noticed by the crew. If it was a human body but with his personality written in code (a la Bane) then he wouldn't have the necessary physical equipment for transmitting a message even if he was compatible in code with them. I've got the trailer for Revolutions on my PC and you're right, it doesn't show anything different or anything in a new world. Although we don't know just how similar this third world would be to either the Matrix or the Zion/Desert world. There is one thing which could indicate it though. The first shot of the trailer is Neo opening his eyes as if he is awakened (is this his first experience of the third world?). He doesnt have plugs in his arms, head etc but they might not need this just because they do in the programmed Zion/Desert world. And there is nothing in the trailer that shows Neo in the Zion world. Also if there were a big thing like this they wouldn't give it away in the trailer.

P.S. On another note the voice over of the trailer seems to be that of the new Oracle (the Oracle in her new "shell"). I hope she is as good as the old one as I thought the Oracle fitted the part superbly.

Since seeing Reloaded 2 days ago, there's one thing I noticed in the movie that I can't find a reference to anywhere, except in Gilbert's message above. (By the way, I like your theory about food being used to integrate programs in the matrix):

Did anyone notice that the candy the Oracle offered Neo was one of those hot tamales wrapped in red foil, ie, the red pill? And he said "You already know if I'm going to take it or not" (he does, but doesn't eat it). Then she unpeels and eats her red pill, saying "I love candy," just before saying sadly "I must go now" etc, like she has to get out of there before the shit hits the fan. Then the dozens of Smiths show up. Anyone else notice this, and did anyone see what Neo did with his candy?

Also, I took the whole scene where Bane cuts himself as a sort of creepy blood-brother thing. He's crouching, waiting for Neo and the others, cuts his hand twice, then hides the knife. Then he hands something to Neo or shakes his hand - does anyone remember what happens here? I thought they shook hands, but if they had Neo would have noticed Bane's blood on his own hands. Then the kid comes up with the spoon, and Neo takes that. This is where I thought the whole Smith/Neo overlap came in -- Neo transferred something of himself to Smith when he killed him in the Matrix. Is this Smith's way of transferring part of himself to Neo via a human subtance - blood - rather than via a program, since he's in the "real"/human world of zion now. Not sure how this can transfer to Neo's ability to stop the sentinels and the multi-matrix theories.

Sorry, not too many answers at this late hour, but I wanted to know if anyone else caught these tidbits. Also, when Neo was in the tv room with the Architect, several times the camera focused on one of the screens, which then became the central room -- ie, we're never sure if we're looking at neo and the Architect in the tv room or at one of the screens themselves. Just curious, but did anyone notice how many times this flip happened? It would be interesting if it was 5 ... ie, what if the One has always been Neo, and he has made the wrong choice (ie, going for the door to save humanity) 5 times already. Each time they reload the program, he thinks he's living it for the 1st time, and this time what makes it different is that Trinity is involved, Neo is in love and that is enough to make him take the seemingly unethical risk of saving her life at the cost of human extinction. Someone said that Reeves said the 3rd movie was about love, etc -- perhaps it's a statement on the power of love/being in love as a mobilizing element, a catalyst for faith/hope/taking risks, etc.

yawn - let me know what you think.

Neo isn't human anymore. In the same way that the man Agent Smith took over isn't human either.

I think this is what the architect was referring to when he says

[quote]The Architect - The matrix is older than you know. I prefer counting from the emergence of one integral anomaly to the emergence of the next, in which case this is the sixth version. [/quote]

The anomoly isn't the human being, it's part of the matrix. It's a peice of code, a program, in the same way that the agents and persephone are just programs. However, as it's taken over a human being (neo) it's still subject to hormones and emotions etc, and so to all appearances is still human. When Neo died, it wasn't Trinity's kiss that bought him back to life, it was this anomaly, that's why he now sees the matrix as code, he's a program himself.

[quote]The Architect - Your life is the sum of the remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the Matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomoly which, despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. Or that remains a burden asiduously avoided it is not unexpected and thus not beyond a measure of control, which has led you inexorably here.[/quote]

In the architects ideal Matrix, everything can be condensed into easily solvable equations. This mathematical precision creates the perfect world. However, in the perfect world there is no choice. Choice is the unbalanced equation. The Oracle is an example of this. She should now exactly what happens in the matrix. However, she is unable to predict choice. Which is why she only knows "enough"

[quote]The Architect - As you are undoubtedly gathering, the anomaly's systemic, creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations. [/quote]

The problem is, this code is able to destablise the matrix. In the same way that the world ripples when neo takes flight. If these things a left unchecked they could destroy the matrix. Which is what the architect needs to avoid.

[quote]The Architect - Thus, the answer was stumbled upon by another, an intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. [/quote]

This I'm sure is a reference to Persephone, her role was to investigate love. (humans don't choose who they fall in love? It has something to do with that)

[quote]The Architect - As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99.9% of all test subjects accepted the program, as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at a near unconscious level. While this answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly, that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo, those that refused the program, while a minority, if unchecked, would constitute an escalating probability of disaster. [/quote]

The first bit refers to how people know that there is something wrong with the world that they live in. Why they spend all their lives wondering What is the Matrix (like neo in the first film). Once they realise that the world is not real, they can start to bend the rules. However, this is the problem, when they start to bend and break the rules they risk destroying the matrix itself. The more people "freed" from the rules of this world = increasing probability of the matrix ending.

[quote]The Architect - The function of the One is now to return to the source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program. After which you will be required to select from the matrix 23 individuals, 16 female, 7 male, to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash killing everyone connected to the matrix, which coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race. [/quote]

The first bit I think, refers to neo, needing to go back to the code of the matrix (after all, it’s just one giant program right?) I think the matrix needs to be reset here (this is what is meant by reinserting the prime program), just for a while. I'm pretty sure the 23 individuals and the council in Zion being 23 is not entirely uncoincadental. I believe they are either the people the previous “one” has rescued. (6 incarnations of the matrix, the year is roughly 2199 Nebuchadnezzar was built in 2069 which allows roughly 20-30 years between “ones” notice how everyone else in Zion is in their 30s?) Also this explains why they didn’t know about the previous Zion, they weren’t people who had been freed. That’s why they didn’t know about the previous one’s

[quote]The Architect - It is interesting reading your reactions. Your five predecessors were by design based on a similar predication, a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the one. While the others experienced this in a very general way, your experience is far more specific. Vis-a-vis, love. [/quote]

This is why I don’t believe neo is human, or human anymore. This bit is annoying, they’ve deliberately used lots of long words to confuse people. But basically what he means is this. “Your five predecessors were human (at least to begin with, we believed that humans would feel the life of the many (people inside the matrix), far outway the life of the few (people in Zion) (ok, I stole that from startrek, but that’s what they mean). However, neo was falling in love with trinity, his body is still human and emotions are powerful things.

[quote] The Architect - Which brings us at last to the moment of truth, wherein the fundamental flaw is ultimately expressed, and the anomaly revealed as both beginning, and end. There are two doors. The door to your right leads to the source, and the salvation of Zion. The door to the left leads back to the matrix, to her, and to the end of your species. As you adequately put, the problem is choice. But we already know what you're going to do, don't we? [/quote]

The first bit is the architect refering to why he didn’t want flaws in the original matrix. You can’t base a system on a flaw and expect it to run perfectly. Neo will end this matrix and begin a new one. (ok, I’m jumping ahead of myself a bit, and there are things left that he still needs to do)

[quote]The Architect - Humph. Hope, it is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and your greatest weakness.
Neo - If I were you, I would hope that we don't meet again.
The Architect - We won't. [/quote]

The architect knows what will ultimately happen. Neo will destroy the current matrix and start again, probably as the new architect. This will be the revolution, and neo will be the new creator.

K? Everyone still with me?

Further explanations and themes

Why can Neo tell the future/feel what’s going on around the matrix?

The code that he carries is, or is part of the matrix. The human brain is just a very complex computer. Neo is able to see the myriad possibilities of the matrix the same way the oracle is and the architect on his screens. For neo this haunts him as nightmares. When he is in the matrix, the code he carries allows him to know what is happening, after all, he is a god in the machine. This also helps explain how neo can stop the machines. When he realises what he actually is. Part of the matrix, he realises he’s connected not only to the Matrix even when not plugged in, but by this he’s connected to all the machines as well.

(K, for this you still have to believe that neo is wireless)

Choice

How can the oracle know what’s going to happen if we have a choice? Simple, notice how the oracle will divine the future in one of 2 ways. Either a) “I’d ask you to take a seat but I know you’ll say no” telling them what will happen so it’ll become a self forfilling prophecy. If people believe she’s an oracle, they’ll listen to her. Or b) She’ll tell them they have a choice of things to do. “on the one hand you have the life of morpheus, and the other your own. She doesn’t now how people will choose, she is just able to see the many possibilities that the matrix will take.

Agent Smith

Well, any story needs a bad guy, and this is it. When smith became merged with neo at the end of the first film, he gained something, from the code neo was carrying. He can copy himself. Using up the natural resources (humans) of a given place. He’s a virus. Neo will have to destroy him when he wishes to reset the matrix. Programs are able to survive a reset of the matrix, he can’t let smith survive into his new world.

Morevignon

I have no fucking clue, I wasn't really paying attention in the cinema as I thought the film was rubbish. Anyone help?

The Agents

At first I couldn’t understand why agents existed. But they are a measure of control. The are designed to kill people who can break the rules of the matrix, and thus help prevent/delay the anomaly from appearing. This is why they tried to kill neo, even though neo is “the one” (he’s not the one until the anomaly appears. If the anomaly can be prevented from appearing the matrix can continue to exist)

Further Proof.

The original ending to The Matrix was altered slightly. The original shooting script has this:

[quote]"Hi. It's me. I know you're out there. I can feel you now. I imagine you can also feel me. You won't have to search for me anymore. I'm done running. Done hiding. Whether I'm done fighting, I suppose, is up to you. I believe deep down, we both want this world to change. I believe that the Matrix can remain our cage or it can become our chrysalis, that's what you helped me to understand. That to be truly free, truly free, you cannot change your cage. You have to change yourself. When I used to look out at this world, all I could see was its edges, its boundaries, its leaders and laws. But now, I see another world. A different world where all things are possible. A world of hope. Of peace. I can't tell you how to get there, but I know if you can free your mind, you'll find the way."[/quote]

So the matrix will still exist, and we’ll all be able to play the matrix online, yay!

The Matrix invokes one intrinsic thought within all of us who care to post deep and lengthy thoughts on this page, Brian. It has nothing to do with jaw-on-ground enthusiasm, nothing to do with our lack of girlfriends' (because according to brian, taking 5 minutes out of each day to respond to a forum OBVIOUSLY means you cannot manage a relationship) It has to do with the fact that in the end we really have no idea if choice, fate, free-will, or predestination even exist. We have no idea if the choices we make had to be made for some event to happen 5 yrs from now. The Matrix makes those who truly understand it take a step backwards...look around at the world...and question everything.
Ultimately, most people think, if only for one second, that their entire life is out of their control...IMAGINE if you were proven that it truly was?

Oh and you said, you wonder who we are I can at least show you who I am...
http://members.migente.com/bebegigante/

Brian

We're people. We're doing this because we enjoy it. Stretching our brains. Some people spend their entire lives pondering over a few statements made by Plato or Archimedes, and we call those people philosophers. Some people write books on what Shakespear really meant, other spend their lives working on obscure mathematical problems or physics problems. They're all working to solve a puzzle, just like we are.

We like the puzzle the W. Bros have left us, and we're trying to solve it.

It's simple. If you had half a brain you would have figured it out yourself.